Game of Thrones - Season 6

The ability to light fire on your sword yet you let the only man who has brought u back from the dead freeze to death.

And i didnt know Michael Bay was involved.

"Paul 13 wrote:

The ability to light fire on your sword yet you let the only man who has brought u back from the dead freeze to death.

Yeah you would think that he would have lit up some swords or something to keep them warm

I want to know where the three or four sets of 500 ft of chains came from.

Hardhome

"ToddPhin wrote:

when you don't allow your mind to get baited into analyzing everything and trying to identify all the flaws, it's entertaining every week.

Thank you! Yeah, just shouting "IT'S FANTASY!" is kind of a lame defense, but enjoy the show for what it is and stop with all the griping. For all it's flaws, it is outstanding TV.

"Deerless Dice wrote:

Streaming on HBO GO was a crap show this week, since it was a longer episode everyone from the CST timezone logged in to watch around 10:00 pm and the last 15 minutes of the show took longer than the last 5 minutes of a split series game 7 NBA Finals game. Not looking forward to the same happening next week.

Travel banter was great, dragons were great, The Night King extinguishing fire as he walked through it was great. Jon Snow fighting wights til the very end was stupid, Arya and Sansa acting like kids were stupid.

Weird, didn't have any issues here.

"Stitches wrote:

I want to know where the three or four sets of 500 ft of chains came from.

Hardhome Depot.

"schmolioot wrote:

I still enjoyed the episode but it is frustrating that so many of the conflicts only exist because people don't talk to each other.

The Sansa/Arya stuff is so stupid. If they just sat down for an hour and discussed everything that's gone on the last few years there not only wouldn't be any conflict but they'd also immediately know that Littlefinger was behind it. Or you know Bran could take 2 seconds and explain everything.

And Jon is just stupid. This whole plan was dumb. Even now with the Wight, why do they assume this will move Cersei in any way? And why would you trust her?

The Sansa/Arya shit is so dumb. The only thing of Arya I have enjoyed in the entire series was her killing the Freys, and that was less about her and more about the Freys getting their just desserts. Arya sucks. I hope she dies.

And Bran? What the fuck is the point of him? He couldn't have warned anyone? The fuck is he doing? What is the point of an awesome power if it is never used?

"Paul 13 wrote:

The ability to light fire on your sword yet you let the only man who has brought u back from the dead freeze to death.

Eh, didn't really phase me. He was badly wounded, a flaming sword likely wouldn't have been enough. Plus, who knows if it takes something to do the sword trick, like a limited mana pool or something. Minor issue. Plus, SOMEONE from the main bunch needed to die.

"Clark Kent wrote:

This episode was a summation of everything wrong with GoT, season 7. Nonsensical plot, tropes, dues ex machina's, unnecessary scenes, poor character development, disguised with cool set pieces. I wrote a much longer review, but I got annoyed with my complaining. Even with all these flaws, it was oddly entertaining.

Seriously? I loved that episode! John Stark stared down the night king. Khalisi came to save him and we saw dragons kicking ass. Arya shows that she's the lone wolf with no alliance (I'm guessing Sansa is now on her list). Khalisi and John at the end, plus the dragon...I thoroughly enjoyed it. While I agree that the plot was stupid to go capture a single white walker (hello, take a Polaroid people...LOL), I really enjoyed the dialogues with the band of misfits going to war, the Mountain being a likable jerk, etc.

What was with Sansa sending Breinne to King's Landing though? She finds out her sister is a lunatic and then she sends away her best protection? She can't possibly be dumb enough to think that she can defend herself against Arya, does she? I personally never liked Sansa anyway though, she's sold out her family at every turn to serve herself.

"schmolioot wrote:

I still enjoyed the episode but it is frustrating that so many of the conflicts only exist because people don't talk to each other.

The Sansa/Arya stuff is so stupid. If they just sat down for an hour and discussed everything that's gone on the last few years there not only wouldn't be any conflict but they'd also immediately know that Littlefinger was behind it. Or you know Bran could take 2 seconds and explain everything.

And Jon is just stupid. This whole plan was dumb. Even now with the Wight, why do they assume this will move Cersei in any way? And why would you trust her?

Yeah, I defended Arya/Sansa last week because I thought that those two being at odds worked for the shows primary theme, the heart in conflict with itself (Self interest getting in the way of benevolent ideals). Then Arya went batshit... Sansa's defense of herself is on point, while Arya is looking for a fight. And yeah, Bran will likely save the day. D&D holding back that ex machina for what should turn out to be pointless conflict, but I would prefer Arya and Sansa to come to terms w/o his help. Poor writing makes that looks impossible. Then again, poor writing is what D&D do, so maybe they'll be BFF next week?

I hate what happened with Coldhands at the end. A cliche ex machina that was handled poorly, with no explanations and a self sacrifice that didn't need be. "There's no time!" he says. Apt. Only 7 episodes left in the series and it's clear everything is being rushed to the point where the writers no longer can flesh out any characters and plots without resorting to the mechanisms that GoT became a pop culture icon for avoiding.

"Clark Kent wrote:

Yeah, I defended Arya/Sansa last week because I thought that those two being at odds worked for the shows primary theme, the heart in conflict with itself (Self interest getting in the way of benevolent ideals). Then Arya went bat****... Sansa's defense of herself is on point, while Arya is looking for a fight. And yeah, Bran will likely save the day. D&D holding back that ex machina for what should turn out to be pointless conflict, but I would prefer Arya and Sansa to come to terms w/o his help. Poor writing makes that looks impossible. Then again, poor writing is what D&D do, so maybe they'll be BFF next week?

I hate what happened with Coldhands at the end. A cliche ex machina that was handled poorly, with no explanations and a self sacrifice that didn't need be. "There's no time!" he says. Apt. Only 7 episodes left in the series and it's clear everything is being rushed to the point where the writers no longer can flesh out any characters and plots without resorting to the mechanisms that GoT became a pop culture icon for avoiding.

I thought that too....in the time he says, "There's no time," he could have jumped on the horse. If they used the line, "I have unfinished business with the Night King" or "It was my destiny to save you here today" or "They'll run us down if the horse carries us both," then at least you have some closure on a final send-off. That's just off the top of my head- tons of one-liners that work better there.

I like the bat-shit crazy Arya though because it's been coming for a long time...that's who she was trained to be. I think they're setting it up for Arya to save the day though...you think she's going to kill Sansa, but she ends up knocking out a few main Lannister's instead. Just my guess though- I haven't read the books.

Here's my end game theory...When you kill a white walker, every wight they turned dies with them. Beric notes that if the Night King is defeated, it's likely the entire undead army will follow, since he was the first and turned everyone. We know that the Prince/Princess who was promised is destined to fight him with Lightbringer, a flaming sword. As it happens, Davos brought a blacksmith (Gendry) into the fold. The secret to creating Valerian Steel was lost in the doom of Valyria, although it's been said that Dragonfire was a key ingredient. Dany has two... Gendry is going to create Lightbringer with the help of Drogon/Rhageal somehow. He'll give that sword to Jon. Jon will eventually 1v1 the Night King. He will slay him in the end, fulfilling the prophecy.

"KeyFin wrote:

I like the bat-**** crazy Arya though because it's been coming for a long time...that's who she was trained to be. I think they're setting it up for Arya to save the day though...you think she's going to kill Sansa, but she ends up knocking out a few main Lannister's instead. Just my guess though- I haven't read the books.

I disagree. Arya's entire arc last season accumulated with her refusal to commit random cold-blooded murder against the actress of the theater company. Killing those who inflict injustice onto others? Fair enough. Becoming a sociopath who kills for sport, money, to serve the many faced god, etc... No. Arya at the end of season 6 proved that she hadn't lost her empathy and moral integrity. Yet, all of that development is lost in an instant and behaves like a psychopath for no justifiable reason. This feels like the first time I saw Batman in BvS. "Wait, he killed that dude in cold blood?! WTF... " It's incongruent with the character.

Incongruity is a big issue this season. In this season, Jon's refusal to bend the knee is paralleled with Mance Rayder refusing to bend the knee to Stannis. Dany even (unknowingly) quoted Jon's words to Mance prior to his death (Is your pride more important than the lives of your people?). Problem is, Mance Rayder didn't refuse to bend the knee out of pride. He refused to bend the knee because his people had bled enough and he wouldn't/couldn't fight a southern King's war. He also points out, that he was essentially given command of the Wildlings by wildlings. By bending the knee, he would lose their respect. Without their respect, they wouldn't follow him anymore. Jon, a bastard with no trueborn rights, was given the North by the northern houses. He can't just bend the knee, because it's not really his to give. It would of made for much better development of his character/situation, given what's happening in the North with Sansa leading the way. Instead, Tormond is all, "How many men died for Mance Rayder's pride?" Ugh.

I don't think Arya was being crazy or even really against Sansa. She was doing the same thing that the Waif did to her. The point of that was to get Arya to admit what she wanted to herself. Now Arya is trying to get Sansa to do the same.

I thought Benjen meant there was no time to explain why he can't go go south of the wall to Jon like he did with Bran. And there's an argument that the horse may have had trouble escaping with two people aboard and no distraction to slow them down.

"rafael wrote:

I don't think Arya was being crazy or even really against Sansa. She was doing the same thing that the Waif did to her. The point of that was to get Arya to admit what she wanted to herself. Now Arya is trying to get Sansa to do the same.

I got that feeling too- not necessarily an enemy but not exactly a friend either. She even said, it didn't turn out too well for the last person to ask me questions...which I took as a direct threat.

"rafael wrote:

I thought Benjen meant there was no time to explain why he can't go go south of the wall to Jon like he did with Bran. And there's an argument that the horse may have had trouble escaping with two people aboard and no distraction to slow them down.

Sure, but why not just say that and wrap the scene up nicely?

Speaking of horses, why couldn't the Jon Snow traveling party have ridden some?

Why set out on foot?

Just annoying.

"schmolioot wrote:

Speaking of horses, why couldn't the Jon Snow traveling party have ridden some?

Why set out on foot?

Just annoying.

Bc then they would've just rode away at the arrival of the dead, and then there'd be no Dany/dragon intervention, and thus no Dany seeing the truth of Snow's sacrifice (his scars) and no dragon for the dead, and it would've been less personable for the viewer instead of the dialogue scenes we got from them walking together. Plus there's the noise level. A pack of traveling horses would probably eliminate the element of stealth.

Don't know about the rest of you but I think the dialogue had been better this year, definitely more comedic.

"schmolioot wrote:

Speaking of horses, why couldn't the Jon Snow traveling party have ridden some?

Why set out on foot?

Just annoying.

Too cold. I get the idea that like Benjen himself, his horse was kind of undead as well, thus able to withstand the cold temps.

Theory time:
Jon dies at the end of next season, sacrificing himself while killing the Night King, saving Dany and whomever is left. Being resurrected, he is essentially living on borrowed time. His repeated narrow escaping of death since is just leading him to a vital point. He will fulfill his destiny and die.
Cleganebowl may be on again - seems the Hound may be going to KL with Jon. I am still unsold on it now that Gregor is a zombie, but for a redemptive end to the Clegane arc, Sandor burning Gregor and overcoming his fear of fire would work I suppose.
Unlikely stunner to cap the season: Jaime kills Cersei, bends the knee to Dany, all head north to commence season last. This could fit into Cleganebowl as well. The negotiation gets very contentious, impulsive Sandor says fuck this and tries to attack, all hell breaks out, Jaime has a moment of truth after some comment Cersei makes, and strikes.
Night King may or may not be shown to breach the wall in the final scene.

"Stitches wrote:

I want to know where the three or four sets of 500 ft of chains came from.

IDK. Does the Night King have his own soothsayer? There's a very strange confidence about him, and he already knew how to defeat a dragon. There's probably a 1% chance of this happening but what if he staged that entire event, specifically to boltster his army with a dragon while simultaneously depleting his enemy of one? Dany's reaction to her white-walking child will be interesting.

"ToddPhin wrote:

IDK. Does the Night King have his own soothsayer? There's a very strange confidence about him, and he already knew how to defeat a dragon. There's probably a 1% chance of this happening but what if he staged that entire event, specifically to boltster his army with a dragon while simultaneously depleting his enemy of one? Dany's reaction to her dead-flying child will be interesting.

Yeah I have heard that posited. I have also heard theories about Bran essentially being the Night King (through crazy time travel parallels), which is why he doesn't do much back at home. I don't necessarily buy either one - the former is too far reaching for the speed the rest of the series is going now, and the latter is just too insane, even by GOT standards.

The Night King is probably a greenseer, same thing that Bran is.

My prediction is that Dany dies. They broached the subject of succession this episode and it's important because she cannot produce heirs. That means when she dies it's civil war. If(when) Dany dies Jon has a clear path to the throne, since he has the strongest claim. Don't forget, Melisandre had vision of snow on the Iron Throne.

I think Jaime kills Cersei because she's going to put Westeros at risk by trying to backstab Dany and Jon. He already killed one King who was going to nuke King's Landing, so him doing to the same to Cersei isn't within his capability.. But I think that happens next season, not next episode.

"Deerless Dice wrote:

The Night King is probably a greenseer, same thing that Bran is.

My prediction is that Dany dies. They broached the subject of succession this episode and it's important because she cannot produce heirs. That means when she dies it's civil war. If(when) Dany dies Jon has a clear path to the throne, since he has the strongest claim. Don't forget, Melisandre had vision of snow on the Iron Throne.

I think Jaime kills Cersei because she's going to put Westeros at risk by trying to backstab Dany and Jon. He already killed one King who was going to nuke King's Landing, so him doing to the same to Cersei isn't within his capability.. But I think that happens next season, not next episode.

I agree the succession thing is significant and getting overlooked to an extent. I definitely think one of the two heroes gets offed. I lean Jon, but this could be a precursor. It seems a little obvious though - a red herring perhaps? Because ultimately, she can't have kids until suddenly she can. The seed is strong! ;)

Also, Gendry still rolling around. Champion marathoner, expert blacksmith, hammertime and Baratheon heir and thus with more of a claim than Cersei.

I think Jon will tame the ice dragon.

As an aside, I almost totally forgot - Blizzard and Warcraft did it first!

This wight Dragon...

1). Unlike the necromancy preformed in Hardhome, the Night King physically touched the dragon to bring him back from the dead. The last time we saw the Night King touch someone, it was the baby. What that means or what that touch did, nobody knows. I've always assumed the baby would become a white walker, as oppose to a wight. I'm curious to what Viserion's nature is now, whether or not he'll retain any intelligence (white walker) or if he's an undead slave (wight). If he's a wight, can't he decay? Going to be hard to fly. Then again, I'm probably overthinking this as far as the show's concerned.

NOTE: Fin D- I would agree if Rhaegal was killed instead of Viserion. I think Rhaegal is Jon's dragon no matter what.

2). Will this Viserion breath ice or fire? I imagine it would still breath fire since the ice wall has to come down so the undead army can invade. However... outside of dragon fire burning the ice wall, breathing ice would feel more inline with the Night King character. And it would be kind of awesome to see what kind of damage an Ice Dragon can inflict.

3). Remember when Bran saw a vision of a dragon's shadow flying over the red keep? And in Dany's vision in the house of the undying, she's walking through the throne room and it's ice cold? I wonder if those two visions are connected. It would be cool to see the Night King slowly march south, turning Westeros into a frozen wasteland until the heroes unite to make one final stand.

Thematically it makes the most sense for Viserion to "betray" Dany, since her brother was the most antagonistic towards her out of the dragon's namesakes.

"Clark Kent wrote:

This wight Dragon...

1). Unlike the necromancy preformed in Hardhome, the Night King physically touched the dragon to bring him back from the dead. The last time we saw the Night King touch someone, it was the baby. What that means or what that touch did, nobody knows. I've always assumed the baby would become a white walker, as oppose to a wight. I'm curious to what Viserion's nature is now, whether or not he'll retain any intelligence (white walker) or if he's an undead slave (wight). If he's a walker, I'm curious what of his past self remains, if anything. It might have been better for the show to have killed Drogon instead, since he's the only dragon that's been given a personality (defiant, wild child) for which we could compare and contrast his new state of being.

NOTE: Fin D- I would agree if Rhaegal was killed instead of Viserion. I think Rhaegal is Jon's dragon no matter what.

2). Will this Viserion breath ice or fire? I imagine it would still breath fire. And wouldn't it make more sense for him to breath fire, since the ice wall has to come down so the undead army can invade? However... outside of dragon fire burning the ice wall, breathing ice would feel more inline with the Night King character. And it would be kind of awesome to see what kind of damage an Ice Dragon can inflict.

3). Remember when Bran saw a vision of a dragon's shadow flying over the red keep? And in Dany's vision in the house of the undying, she's walking through the throne room and it's ice cold? I wonder if those two visions are connected. It would be cool to see the Night King slowly march south, turning Westeros into a frozen wasteland until the heroes unite to make one final stand.

Yeah....but Ice dragon....Jon Snow...fire...ice...

Orrrrrrrrrrrr..........

Something happens to Rhaegal and he becomes part ice and part fire....then he'd be perfect for Snow....which would mean another Stark would have to tame Viserion......