Game of Thrones - Season 6

Since I don't have HBO, I haven't seen Game of Thrones since I was in Afghanistan and was watching episodes that friends downloaded on their external hard drives. My brother in law just hooked me up with Seasons 1-6 and I just finished watching them all in a marathon. So here are The Dark Knight's takes on some of the discussions and my own thoughts thus far...

There are those who have criticized how Myrcella was killed off. I actually think it was very well written. If you recall, the moment Obren Martel entered Kings Landing, the blood feud between the Lannisters and Martells was immediately introduced with Oberyn made it clearly known to Tyrion his blaming the Lannisters for the death of his sister Ella Targaryen by "The Mountain". He wanted revenge. Oberyn's vindictive paramour, Ellaria Sand wanted revenge for the death of Oberyn at the hand of Clegone during Tyrion's trial by combat and was also supportive of Oberyn's quest for revenge for the death of his sister. What better way to strike out at the Lannister's, Cercei in particular? Murder her beloved child Myrcella. Doran, the Prince of Dorne had no desire to go to war with the Lannisters, even after Oberyn's death which only fueled Ellaria's rage even more.

I feel it was well written. Ellaria gets her revenge for the death of Oberyn and the war with the Lannisters that she wanted.

More thoughts to follow on other characters and situations that occurred in Season 6 below...

Jon Snow has been without a doubt one of the most beloved characters in Game of Thrones. A second class citizen being the bastard son of Ned Stark, never able to hold the mantle of his family's name, he demonstrated that through his wisdom, loyalty and integrity he is indeed the son of Ned Stark...or so we thought!

With the revelation that Jon Snow is actually the bastard son of Rhaegar Targaryen, the eldset son of Ares II known as the Mad King, what will become of Jon Snow when he ultimately learns of his true heritage...the son of a Stark and Targaryen?

I've not read the books so I don't know exactly what will happen, but I foresee an alliance between the north and Daenerys Targaryen in a battle against the White Walkers and Daenerys will legitimize Snow, making him Jon Stark, Lord of Winderfell and King in the North.

Sandor Clegane, aka "The Hound" has been a very intriguing character to me since his introduction. The younger brother of Gregory Clegane, "The Mountain" has always had a prominent position in the court of Joffrey due to his brutal fighting skills, he's always held a grudge if you will against his older brother for scarring him and has had a self serving rebellious nature to him. However, once he took Arya Stark under his protection, albet he called it holding her until he could ransom her to her family, he protected her nonetheless and slowly grew fond of her. After his defeat at the hands of Brienne of Tarth and Arya's refusal to kill him as he lay at the base of the cliff was the turning point for him. After the rural sept found him and nursed him back to health, he realized that even a man as beastly as himself could be accepted despite his brooding appearance.

I see him killing his older brother and and making his home in Wintderfell.

"The_Dark_Knight wrote:

Sandor Clegane, aka "The Hound" has been a very intriguing character to me since his introduction. The younger brother of Gregory Clegane, "The Mountain" has always had a prominent position in the court of Joffrey due to his brutal fighting skills, he's always held a grudge if you will against his older brother for scarring him and has had a self serving rebellious nature to him. However, once he took Arya Stark under his protection, albet he called it holding her until he could ransom her to her family, he protected her nonetheless and slowly grew fond of her. After his defeat at the hands of Brienne of Tarth and Arya's refusal to kill him as he lay at the base of the cliff was the turning point for him. After the rural sept found him and nursed him back to health, he realized that even a man as beastly as himself could be accepted despite his brooding appearance.

I see him killing his older brother and and making his home in Wintderfell.

The Hound would make a badass Night's Watch Commander when it's all finished, assuming the White Walkers are defeated. Redemption for him and he would fit right in with the rest of the Night's Watch.

"Claymore95 wrote:

The Hound would make a badass Night's Watch Commander when it's all finished, assuming the White Walkers are defeated. Redemption for him and he would fit right in with the rest of the Night's Watch.

Crazy theory that is obviously not true....

The Hound is the prince that was promised.

"Fin D wrote:

Crazy theory that is obviously not true....

The Hound is the prince that was promised.

Hey remember...I've not read the books nor do I have HBO so if you know something, PLEASE don't give it away Tony!!!

"The_Dark_Knight wrote:

Hey remember...I've not read the books nor do I have HBO so if you know something, PLEASE don't give it away Tony!!!

I haven't read the books either. I've only watched the show.

The prince that is promised is what the red lady has been talking about

"Fin D wrote:

I haven't read the books either. I've only watched the show.

The prince that is promised is what the red lady has been talking about

I don't think SHE even knows who the prince is. After the defeat of Stannis Baratheon at the Battle of Winderfell, her beliefs were shaken to the very core and Melisandre is about as wishy washy as a washing machine lol

All the Westerosi allies Dany and Co. at the end of last season are now gone or neutralized. What good is Varys now?

How do you not defend High Garden as Task #1 once getting to Westeros?!?!?

Casterly Rock is useless to the Crown now, Tyrion showed some serious huberis trying to get a symbolic win.

Now, enter the Dothraki and Dragons in a battle for the Reach. You NEED!!! Jon Snow, the Vale and perhaps the Riverlands as an ally going forward. Dany has given up the Dragonglass but now Snow needs to convince the Knights of the Vale, The Tully Loyalists and the North to help remove Cersi.

I think Dragons can probably deal with Euron by themselves.

The Prince was forged by fire...that definitely could be the Hound.

Hound was less forged by fire than horribly disfigured by fire and super afraid of it now.

This week's episode was the dog's bollocks, best one of the season yet. That last scene had me on the edge of my seat.

"Claymore95 wrote:

This week's episode was the dog's bollocks, best one of the season yet. That last scene had me on the edge of my seat.

Ditto. Great season thus far!
Are they setting Little Finger up for a switch-a-roo? I could see the constant rejection and lack of acknowledgment finally getting to his precious ego.

This was an exciting episode. A lot of cool payoffs. Still I can't help but feel underwhelmed with the series at the moment.

Way too many issues with the writing, much of it to do with D&D (who I have defended quite a lot) not being able to resolve their changes to GRRM's story. I don't have a problem with changing stories to fit the medium, or to wind things down, but they were clearly unprepared to handle those changes without sacrificing characters.

Take Tyrion and Vary's for example...

In season 6, Tyrion was a drunk fool, making bad plans, bad alliances, using bad strategy... Why? Because the show needed him to fail, so Dany could rise up and save the day with her Dragons and new Dothraki army she acquired. Season 7? Much of the same. While it looked like he was about to turn things around back in Westeros by bringing two stubborn people (Jon and Dany) together with great diplomatic skills, his war strategy falls apart. Why? Because the show wanted (needed?) to put Dragons in play. Great sequence. Truly. It was everything I wanted to see from them. But not at the expense of making Tyrion a fool. He's not. He's one of the top 3 players of the game.

Dany gets angry and questions his failings by accusing him of protecting his family... Really? He killed his father after Cersei and Tywin did everything they could to kill him/remove him from the picture. Cersei has offered a bounty for his head ffs... So lame and ridiculous.

It's not Tyrion's fault D&D invented a teleportation device that allowed the Lannister army to leave Casterly Rock and travel to Highgarden completely unnoticed (along with Euron's ships to Dorne). And what about Vary's? The master of whispers? Shouldn't he have some kind of network that would allow for some recon (remember, he's got little birds throughout the seven kingdoms, not just King's Landing)? What's his purpose at this point? He really has none if he's not running his network. He's not suppose to be with Dany in the books, he's with someone else. Since D&D changed the story, they can't have him doing his job, which he's world renowned for, properly. So D&D just say fuck it, let's make these two awesome characters worthless. Oh, and we'll have Jon give Dany the same exact advice Tyrion did 2 seconds ago about not using Dragons against a large, fully inhabited city, and she'll listen because A). It props up Jon to Dany and the audience and B). Dany wants to bang him.

Really, really shitty writing. Why not have Vary's tell Dany about rumors of a bait and switch happening with Casterly Rock/Highgarden (or have him supply information to Dany that unbeknownst to him, is disinformation, because his network is corrupted by Cersei/Qyburn)? Tyrion could offer alternative strategies that make sense in this new context, looking intelligent and competent. Tyrion and Vary's are contributing to the story in a meaningful way as they use their expertise that fits within the context of their characters and story... And it's great.

Even if D&D are desperate to have a crazy awesome Dragon fight, why not have the blame fall on Dany (or Vary's, unintentionally)? If Tyrion gives her multiple choices, based on Vary's providing recon, and she chooses wrong, she can own up to it when it fails, and then decide to use her Dragons as a means to make up for her mistake. She takes responsibility like an adult, admits to her failures, and figures a way to course correct, all the while Jon is watching and is impressed with her maturity and leadership. Then add that scene with Mel, Davos, and Jon where Mel talks about wanting to follow Dany because they believe in her. And then, that scene becomes actually meaningful, because Dany has demonstrated to Jon and the audience, that she's a real leader, adding complexity to Jon's decision as to whether or not bending the knee is the right decision.

But no... That's too challenging for D&D. So they write the lowest common denominator plot they can think of, which makes awesome characters look stupid and worthless so they can prop up one... That's just one example of many. I had high hopes they could figure out a way to make sense of everything they changed, but clearly not. We're beyond that point now with 9 episodes remaining in the series. They're rushing along and making the characters chess pieces they can move around the board and put in play at the right time and place, development be damned...

/endrant.

Yeah, I do have mixed feelings... I loved the last episode, the writing has been lazy to a degree. With the end of the show on the horizon, they are conveniently tying up loose ends. And without a finished product by GRRM (they just have a shell right?), it's as if the TV show writers don't know the correct way to end certain paths. Still love it though. When is Jon Snow going to find out where he came from? And what of the Baratheon bastard Gendry? Is that your prince forged by fire?

"ToddPhin wrote:

Ditto. Great season thus far!
Are they setting Little Finger up for a switch-a-roo? I could see the constant rejection and lack of acknowledgment finally getting to his precious ego.

I don't think it would bother him. He'd just look for other opportunities. I expect that he'll try to get between the Starks in some other way. Maybe he'll use that letter Sansa wrote (Cersie made her write it) telling Rob to bend the knee. We learned two episodes ago that there are copies of everything. He may back off of Bran b/c he doesn't know how much Bran already knows, but Arya would probably get angry at Sansa over it. I assume they'll work it out after some angry words and eventually Little Finger will get his due after his role in Ned's death is revealed.

Why did they make this the final season when the story could've been enjoyably fleshed out for an additional season and especially given the popularity of the show?

"ToddPhin wrote:

Why did they make this the final season when the story could've been enjoyably fleshed out for an additional season and especially given the popularity of the show?

well technically there are two seasons left, they have cut the final season into two 7 episode segments. I think Lost did the same thing didn't they? Great shows should never end, but in the end, that's part of their greatness.

"Paul 13 wrote:

Yeah, I do have mixed feelings... I loved the last episode, the writing has been lazy to a degree. With the end of the show on the horizon, they are conveniently tying up loose ends. And without a finished product by GRRM (they just have a shell right?), it's as if the TV show writers don't know the correct way to end certain paths. Still love it though. When is Jon Snow going to find out where he came from? And what of the Baratheon bastard Gendry? Is that your prince forged by fire?

Yeah, I still love the show. It's still the best thing going on TV as far I'm concerned and I'm way to invested to give up on it. I'm just disappointed that D&D shortened Season 7-8 to 13 episodes and now it feels like they're rushing to connect the dots.

I would count Gendry out tbh. I don't think they're planning to use him again. Once Devos set him free, I think that was the end of his arc. TBH, I'm not sure what he could do if he did come back anyway. With the current power players going full tilt to the finish line and the White Walkers marching towards the wall, Gendry would be out of place in almost any scenario.

I assume when Jon heads back North? Bran told Sansa he needed to talk to Jon. Although, given the way the show is treating Bran, purposefully making him withhold important information (Jon's parentage, White Walkers, knowledge of Littlefingers BS), I'm sure they'll drag it out with Jon being all like, "Tell me the really important thing later litte bro, I gotta go save Westeros at the moment."

Since Jaime didn't bite the dust at the end of the episode, and given all the callbacks this season to earlier seasons, I can't help but wonder if we'll get two with Jaime and Tyrion.

Callback 1). Jaime being taken as Dany's prisoner of war (like he was with Robb in season 2) which was the beginning of his character growth/development. Arguably the best character arc of the series, both show and book.

Callback 2). Tyrion being in the uncomfortable spot of having to decide whether or not to set him free as Jaime did for him in season 4. I suspect that's really where Dany's "Oh, you lost me two battles to protect your family!" BS really came from. D&D foreshadowing Tyrion's difficult position regarding his brother.

There's potential for a really juicy story if it goes down like this. We know Lady Olenna planted seeds in Jaime's mind about what kind of monster Cersei is. When Jaime set Tyrion free, Tyrion killed their father... Maybe Tyrion finishes what Olenna started and convinces Jaime that Cersei needs to go and sets him off to finish her? Would make for a nice story echo.

I think we'll see Gendry again. I think he'll be part of that group that joins Jon going North.

"ToddPhin wrote:

Why did they make this the final season when the story could've been enjoyably fleshed out for an additional season and especially given the popularity of the show?

I don't know... HBO is on record saying they wanted GoT as long as they could have it. At one point, saying 9 seasons was a possibility. D&D then said no, 7 seasons felt right. They compromised with 2 shortened seasons.

1). Honestly? I think they're tiring of doing the show. GoT is a massive production and must be headache to run every year.
2). The source material. Martin expanded the series with a feast for crows and dance with dragons, rather than bringing it to a close. Those two books (which are basically one book, given the narrative structure) are massive... They had to make a lot of cuts to translate it to TV. And doing so meant massive story changes from the books to TV show. And it translated poorly. For example, Dorne in the TV is considered the WORST storyline in the shows history (it's easy to see why). Dorne in the books? Amazing. Which is shocking, given how awesome D&D handled Oberyn (Dorne's introduction to the show basically) in season 4. GRRM has talked about the butterfly effect of making massive changes and how it would hurt the story. I think D&D probably agreed and decided to wrap things up before they got too off track.

Considering the ratings go up every year, I don't think any other reasons make sense. Especially since HBO has ordered GoT spinoffs.

Dorne in the books is pretty bad. It's so bad that they completely cut Darkstar, Arianne, and Quentyn from the show. In fact, Alexander Siddig (Doran Martell) was signed on for additional episodes but D&D needed to wrap that story line up to narrow the focus of the show so they killed him off. Book Areo Hotah was a BAMF, but he went down like a schmuck to the Sand Snakes in the show.

"ToddPhin wrote:

Why did they make this the final season when the story could've been enjoyably fleshed out for an additional season and especially given the popularity of the show?

The actors are getting expensive. The big 5 (Dany, Jon, Tyrion, Jaime, and Cersei) supposedly make 500k per episode. Throw in filming on location and CGI for dragons and large scale battles and you can imagine how expensive this production is. Also it's not the final season. Season 8 will air but it'll only be 6 episodes.

"Clark Kent wrote:

This was an exciting episode. A lot of cool payoffs. Still I can't help but feel underwhelmed with the series at the moment.

Way too many issues with the writing, much of it to do with D&D (who I have defended quite a lot) not being able to resolve their changes to GRRM's story. I don't have a problem with changing stories to fit the medium, or to wind things down, but they were clearly unprepared to handle those changes without sacrificing characters.

Take Tyrion and Vary's for example...

In season 6, Tyrion was a drunk fool, making bad plans, bad alliances, using bad strategy... Why? Because the show needed him to fail, so Dany could rise up and save the day with her Dragons and new Dothraki army she acquired. Season 7? Much of the same. While it looked like he was about to turn things around back in Westeros by bringing two stubborn people (Jon and Dany) together with great diplomatic skills, his war strategy falls apart. Why? Because the show wanted (needed?) to put Dragons in play. Great sequence. Truly. It was everything I wanted to see from them. But not at the expense of making Tyrion a fool. He's not. He's one of the top 3 players of the game.

Dany gets angry and questions his failings by accusing him of protecting his family... Really? He killed his father after Cersei and Tywin did everything they could to kill him/remove him from the picture. Cersei has offered a bounty for his head ffs... So lame and ridiculous.

It's not Tyrion's fault D&D invented a teleportation device that allowed the Lannister army to leave Casterly Rock and travel to Highgarden completely unnoticed (along with Euron's ships to Dorne). And what about Vary's? The master of whispers? Shouldn't he have some kind of network that would allow for some recon (remember, he's got little birds throughout the seven kingdoms, not just King's Landing)? What's his purpose at this point? He really has none if he's not running his network. He's not suppose to be with Dany in the books, he's with someone else. Since D&D changed the story, they can't have him doing his job, which he's world renowned for, properly. So D&D just say **** it, let's make these two awesome characters worthless. Oh, and we'll have Jon give Dany the same exact advice Tyrion did 2 seconds ago about not using Dragons against a large, fully inhabited city, and she'll listen because A). It props up Jon to Dany and the audience and B). Dany wants to bang him.

Really, really ****ty writing. Why not have Vary's tell Dany about rumors of a bait and switch happening with Casterly Rock/Highgarden (or have him supply information to Dany that unbeknownst to him, is disinformation, because his network is corrupted by Cersei/Qyburn)? Tyrion could offer alternative strategies that make sense in this new context, looking intelligent and competent. Tyrion and Vary's are contributing to the story in a meaningful way as they use their expertise that fits within the context of their characters and story... And it's great.

Even if D&D are desperate to have a crazy awesome Dragon fight, why not have the blame fall on Dany (or Vary's, unintentionally)? If Tyrion gives her multiple choices, based on Vary's providing recon, and she chooses wrong, she can own up to it when it fails, and then decide to use her Dragons as a means to make up for her mistake. She takes responsibility like an adult, admits to her failures, and figures a way to course correct, all the while Jon is watching and is impressed with her maturity and leadership. Then add that scene with Mel, Davos, and Jon where Mel talks about wanting to follow Dany because they believe in her. And then, that scene becomes actually meaningful, because Dany has demonstrated to Jon and the audience, that she's a real leader, adding complexity to Jon's decision as to whether or not bending the knee is the right decision.

But no... That's too challenging for D&D. So they write the lowest common denominator plot they can think of, which makes awesome characters look stupid and worthless so they can prop up one... That's just one example of many. I had high hopes they could figure out a way to make sense of everything they changed, but clearly not. We're beyond that point now with 9 episodes remaining in the series. They're rushing along and making the characters chess pieces they can move around the board and put in play at the right time and place, development be damned...

/endrant.

Yeah, can't disagree with any of that. The show is still awesome and I'll eagerly watch every remaining episode, but the writing's almost fallen apart since they've not had GRRM's material to fall back on. The plotholes get bigger and bigger, the character writing gets poorer and poorer, and I'm at the stage now where I just ignore them as thinking on them too much would take away from what is still a fantastic show to watch. In a way, it's just as well it's going to finish after the next season, as without the source material I think the show would only get worse to the point where fans would desert it in droves.

"Clark Kent wrote:

Yeah, I still love the show. It's still the best thing going on TV as far I'm concerned and I'm way to invested to give up on it. I'm just disappointed that D&D shortened Season 7-8 to 13 episodes and now it feels like they're rushing to connect the dots.

I would count Gendry out tbh. I don't think they're planning to use him again. Once Devos set him free, I think that was the end of his arc. TBH, I'm not sure what he could do if he did come back anyway. With the current power players going full tilt to the finish line and the White Walkers marching towards the wall, Gendry would be out of place in almost any scenario.

I assume when Jon heads back North? Bran told Sansa he needed to talk to Jon. Although, given the way the show is treating Bran, purposefully making him withhold important information (Jon's parentage, White Walkers, knowledge of Littlefingers BS), I'm sure they'll drag it out with Jon being all like, "Tell me the really important thing later litte bro, I gotta go save Westeros at the moment."

Since Jaime didn't bite the dust at the end of the episode, and given all the callbacks this season to earlier seasons, I can't help but wonder if we'll get two with Jaime and Tyrion.

Callback 1). Jaime being taken as Dany's prisoner of war (like he was with Robb in season 2) which was the beginning of his character growth/development. Arguably the best character arc of the series, both show and book.

Callback 2). Tyrion being in the uncomfortable spot of having to decide whether or not to set him free as Jaime did for him in season 4. I suspect that's really where Dany's "Oh, you lost me two battles to protect your family!" BS really came from. D&D foreshadowing Tyrion's difficult position regarding his brother.

There's potential for a really juicy story if it goes down like this. We know Lady Olenna planted seeds in Jaime's mind about what kind of monster Cersei is. When Jaime set Tyrion free, Tyrion killed their father... Maybe Tyrion finishes what Olenna started and convinces Jaime that Cersei needs to go and sets him off to finish her? Would make for a nice story echo.

I can see it... I can see Cersei getting her due, Jaime/Tyrion take over King's Landing so that the bigger war, vs the WW, is setup much easier. Seems Dany was pretty convinced by what Jon Snow had to say. Or it's Arya Stark getting another one on her list crossed off, doing it herself, with really the same end result.

"Paul 13 wrote:

I can see it... I can see Cersei getting her due, Jaime/Tyrion take over King's Landing so that the bigger war, vs the WW, is setup much easier. Seems Dany was pretty convinced by what Jon Snow had to say. Or it's Arya Stark getting another one on her list crossed off, doing it herself, with really the same end result.

It won't be Arya. The prophesy said the palanquar (sp?) or little brother. Since Cersei came out first it could be Jaime or Tyrion. I expect it will be Jaime who strangles her.