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Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Sceeto, Mar 26, 2020.
Florio and C. Simms on Tua Tagovailoa and Justin Herbert.
He's not wrong about the injury issues..They're very real.......As a Sixers fan I can say that we hold our breath at least once a game with Joel Embiid...Same thing, just injury prone. You want your QB to be a tough SOB...I don't know that Tua is. He hasn't shown to be.
To be fair, his hip injury was an absolute freak hit where the force put on his lower body was similar to an auto accident. That's not a normal type of play.
Even with no injuries, I have Herbert above Tua.
Well...I am not too proud to change my mind. I think Simms makes a very good point about Tua and his fragility. I think back to Tannehill and how tough he was. We were so spoiled. He would take a big hit and bounce back up. With Tua, I don't see that happening. He will probably take a big hit, and then we will see our backup for a game or two or more. To me, that's not good for the offense because it lacks continuity. It takes a while for guys to get into a groove. Changing up QBs all the time won't help that and it will probably hurt our team. As for Herbert, I think there is a yellow flag about how much he likes football. That's concerning to me because the NFL is so demanding and if a guy is going to ever be great he has to make huge sacrifices. If you love it, then the sacrifice isn't as hard. If you are so-so on something then the sacrifice becomes harder and harder as time goes by. That said, I am changing up my QB wish list and putting Herbert in front of Tua because as Simms said, Tua plays small. At #5 or higher, I don't think we could take the chance. I will be interested in seeing what Simms has to say about Love when they talk about him in the future.
as of now:
It does not matter if it is an uncommon injury or not.
Tua has had what 4 or 5 surgeries already and he is a college kid.
Also any hip injury is MAJOR... Hips do not heal like other areas... Long term tissue decay and mobility issues will always be a concern for any player with a major hip injury.... That is just part of life.
If we get Tua I will hope for the best... But to try to downplay the Injury history of Tua is ridiculous.
I agree on the injury being a freak occurance...Some athletes get past the issues. I like Tua quite a bit and would be fine with us drafting him if that's who we decide to pick. It's just that until he proves to be over the injury issues, we will all be holding our breath every time he takes a hit or is slow to get up. Your franchise QB is the one player you don't want to lose and it's going to be stressful with him whenever he plays because that fear will always be there. It'll be even worse if he turns out to actually be good in the NFL because then you stand a lot to lose. I know each and every player in sports has that "one chance" of suffering a horrible injury, and come to think of it Brady, Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Marino, Roethlisberger, Cam Newton, Steve Young, etc have all have had an injury at one time throughout their careers that has basically cut short a season or two, and because of that I would be willing to gamble on Tua. He's extremely talented from what I have seen. Simms makes some good points about him though and i'm just as sold on Herbert as I am on Tua so either one will be fine with me.
I've had 3 broken noses. With the first one I declined a surgery and opted for a manual reduction using only Novocain because I didn't have insurance. The last two times, I had insurance and opted for surgery. The first break was due to being pistol whipped. The 2nd was in a basketball game. The last was when my oldest threw her head back into my face. Am I injury prone?
Tue has had 2 ELECTIVE surgeries and one major surgery.
I think this sums up a lot of what I have thought. I just don't think he will be durable enough in the NFL. The history says so. Don't forget he's a smaller guy too at 6ft. I still am not a fan of Herbert so I have a dilemma on my hands. Does that mean Love?
I don't know.
If this is the path we’re going down then I’d burn the early picks on other positions and take Hurts with a later pick. Hell I’d even consider Jameis if he’d take a team friendly incentive loaded contract. We know he’s got a cannon and can run, if the eye surgery really fixed his vision maybe the turnovers will drop. I love the gunslinger mentality.
I agree 100% Tua is too injury prone and is overhyped. Herbert has more upside and less risk. Only thing I disagree with is him not puting Jalen Hurts in the top 5.
It's not only his injury history. If it was just that I would feel a little better about it believe it or not. What got me is what Simms said as he was watching Tua's film. When the play was over, Simms kept having to ask himself, is Tua hurt, is he hurt? All players get nicked up during a game and play through the pain until it stops or until the game is over, etc. However, I believe Simms is trying to be an impartial evaluator. If he says it looks like Tua is getting nicked a lot, especially on plays other QBs don't, then that is very concerning to me. Nothing against Tua. I really wish things were different, but I don't think he is as good a fit in the NFL as other QBs. Now, if he was like Drew Brees or Payton Manning where he understood how to protect his body then that could change things, but right now he's just an injury waiting to happen. You know what they say, you can't help the club, in the tub.
My thing with Tua is if his hip injury was the ONLY injury, I could view it as a freak thing and one off. Problem is he had a couple of ankle injuries and maybe I’m still gun shy from drafting Jason Allen who had a hip injury his senior year.
But to other people’s point, it’s not going to get any easier to stay healthy in the NFL.
I’d rather roll the dice on Herbert or continue building this team and taking a developmental QB later in the draft. Reality is if we build a great team, good QB’s are found in the middle and late part of the first round. Mahomes, Roethlisberger, Rodgers, Lamar Jackson and hell, even Marino.
Sorry about your nose? ( weird and random, but okay )
Tua had surgery to repair his nose on the play that broke his hip also...
Tua had a broken finger repaired with surgery at Alabama Ran into his offensive lineman
That is 4 surgeries...
Feel free to google this... It is all out there
He suffered a sprained MCL in his knee in college also
You no.Your nose?Kinda.
I completely agree.I don't want this guy at 5 and sure the hell don't want him at 3!
So because Simms is speculating about Tua being hurt after all of these plays, we are taking his word for it that he was hurt. Riiiiiiiight
Not doubting it as it has been regurgitated a million times but he won't be the first QB that got a broken nose or jammed his hand on an offensive lineman's helmet - still doesn't make him injury prone as these are accidents. A 300lb lineman falls on his ankle - accident (elective surgery to limit these high ankle sprains in the future and to get him back playing quicker).
The hip is a worry, I won't deny that but it was a freak accident - again, none of it means injury prone.
It just seems to me Tua is of a slight build. He looks more like a WR than he does a QB to me. Not questioning his obvious talent, but I don't think his injury history can be ignored. It has to play a major part in any teams evaluation of him. I think the Dolphins should draft Tua if he is there when the Dolphins draft, but if I was making the call I'm not sure I could or would draft him. I think I would be very tempted to draft Herbert or Love over Tua because of the injury history.
Tua's body appears to be small for even a 6 foot tall guys. Look at Kyler Murray, he is not tall (5' 10"), but his body type looks to me to be bigger/thicker than his actual size.
Injury prone is a useless term here. Forget that for a second.
His hip may never be the same... Period.
Well, I am not saying it's the end all be all, but he knows a lot more than I do. Forgive me for being ignorant. I don't have the experience or skill to evaluate film. I have to rely on others and their opinions. I could be wrong, but I thought he was trying to be impartial and fair with his evaluation process. If we draft Tua, I will support him, and hope he succeeds, just like I would any other guy.
That's not what he said nor meant and it also doesn't make much sense. Sorry, brah.
Honestly, I am in the same situation as you 99 as I'm no evaluator. However, even though he likely is able to evaluate a QB's skills, he is speculating with his comments about Tua potentially being hurt more every time. I don't doubt that if a 300lb lineman runs into you, it's going to hurt, so why would it be different for every other QB that also gets hit by a 300lber as there's no way that it isn't going to hurt.
I don't see how it makes any difference regardless of any QB whether it's going to hurt getting hit by a big lineman - a moving 300+lbs vs a likely stationary 220lbs, it's going to hurt, there is no way that it is only applied to Tua.
Every statistic that we have to work with, every statistic that gets quoted in these posts, QB rating, completion percentage, Z score, they're all reflections of the past but, they get used to project what's likely in the future. Injury history is no different. Football related injuries, surgeries, games missed, even plays missed are all legitimate measures of future concerns. It's all we got so, it's the best we have to work with and it sure as hell carries more weight than even a doctor declaring that this particular QB is "cleared for all football related activities."
At 5 for a guy that's hasn't played 1 full season on college football team with the best talent around him no thanks!
And where has Grier or Flores ever said this is the guy they want?This **** is a media creation.I bet he falls down the draft board.