Flashback: Some didn't grade Tua well pre-draft

"Jersey Dolfan wrote:

I know this guy is nobody important, but watch the whole video....is anything he's saying inaccurate? It sucks, but if you're a true Miami Dolphins fan, you've gotta be worried right now...

I watched the whole video. His view of Tua's potentially being a bust was based almost entirely on his propensity for being hurt and missing game time. There was very little of his performance that the person's opinion was based on. Showed some negative plays, sure, but all QBs have those. What he didn't do was take the negative plays and show them to be indicative of an ability flaw that's likely to persist. That's what bust potential should be based on, primarily.

Tua could be a bust, sure, but if he is, this guy's prediction of that will have been based on luck and not his actual appraisal of the player.

There are several of us on this board who didn’t want to take Tua or preferred Herbert over Tua. I would have no issue taking him in the 2nd round even though I know no one had him going there.

But none of that matters now. We can’t turn back time and are stuck with him, for better or worse. All we can do now is add some much needed talent on offense and hope that helps Tua or whoever our next QB is.

The fact of the matter is that Tua is our QB today- there's no sense in playing the "could have, should have" games. I mean, we "could have" kept Tannehill, invested in that same offensive line and drafted a stud WR instead of Tua. But it's a pointless exercise since hindsight is always 20/20.

The real question is where we go from here- will Fitz return next season or retire? Do we draft another QB to compete? What does Tua need to accelerate the learning process?

I think the big thing is getting some reliable receivers to compliment Gisecki. Keep Grant (or Wilson) for special teams and get rid of the rest. The Parker experiment should end, in my opinion, and guys like Ford just aren't special enough. Give Bowden and Perry a few seasons before parting ways to see if they don't develop. Personally, I'm high on Bowden's chances to stick around. Overall though, there were just too many drops and blown routes these past few weeks to convince me WR isn't part of the problem. We also need to invest in RB- we have some hard runners but nothing truly special.

Also, drafting a QB is mandatory. Maybe not #3 overall, but we need another young guy in the room to compete. I like Trask in the 2nd round but there are a lot of names for a developmental QB- I'd at least grab "this season's Jalen Hurts" and develop him the next 3-4 years. Personally, I'm big on drafting a quarterback every season to maximize your chances of long-term stability.

Coaching- I also think this needs to be addressed. I'm not sure if Gailey did Tua any favors since it was a completely different offense under Fitzpatrick. Tua was rushed into action and I'm glad we got to see extended snaps, but to me it was clear that he's just not 100% ready to take the helm. And that's okay, there's no rule saying rookie QB's have to ball out, but we do need some consistency for Tua and I didn't see it over this final month.

"KeyFin wrote:

The fact of the matter is that Tua is our QB today- there's no sense in playing the "could have, should have" games.

Dude, this is a fan message board. There's no sense in any of us saying ANYTHING, because nothing we say will make a difference in the end. We're here to speculate and second-guess and whine and complain and on rare occasions, celebrate.

I wish Bill O'Brien was still the Texans GM. We could trade for Deshaun Watson.

"Rick 1966 wrote:

Dude, this is a fan message board. There's no sense in any of us saying ANYTHING, because nothing we say will make a difference in the end. We're here to speculate and second-guess and whine and complain and on rare occasions, celebrate.

I get that, but we can't change the past and there's no sense dwelling over what we could have done differently. It's a lot more productive to focus on today and what could change now & in the future....that's what the team can control now.

"KeyFin wrote:

I get that, but we can't change the past and there's no sense dwelling over what we could have done differently. It's a lot more productive to focus on today and what could change now & in the future....that's what the team can control now.

Um, no. Nothing we do here is productive. It produces nothing. We're here to talk. None of that talk will change anything, it just gives us a place to vent and/or commiserate and far too rarely with this team, celebrate the wins. Being "positive" will accomplish nothing. Being "negative" will accomplish nothing. We're all just blowing off steam. I don't know why it's so hard for some people to understand the absolute UNIMPORTANCE of the "attitude" any of us take here. Hell, there's precious few people who even post on message forums anymore.

"KeyFin wrote:

The fact of the matter is that Tua is our QB today- there's no sense in playing the "could have, should have" games. I mean, we "could have" kept Tannehill, invested in that same offensive line and drafted a stud WR instead of Tua. But it's a pointless exercise since hindsight is always 20/20.

The real question is where we go from here- will Fitz return next season or retire? Do we draft another QB to compete? What does Tua need to accelerate the learning process?

I think the big thing is getting some reliable receivers to compliment Gisecki. Keep Grant (or Wilson) for special teams and get rid of the rest. The Parker experiment should end, in my opinion, and guys like Ford just aren't special enough. Give Bowden and Perry a few seasons before parting ways to see if they don't develop. Personally, I'm high on Bowden's chances to stick around. Overall though, there were just too many drops and blown routes these past few weeks to convince me WR isn't part of the problem. We also need to invest in RB- we have some hard runners but nothing truly special.

Also, drafting a QB is mandatory. Maybe not #3 overall, but we need another young guy in the room to compete. I like Trask in the 2nd round but there are a lot of names for a developmental QB- I'd at least grab "this season's Jalen Hurts" and develop him the next 3-4 years. Personally, I'm big on drafting a quarterback every season to maximize your chances of long-term stability.

Coaching- I also think this needs to be addressed. I'm not sure if Gailey did Tua any favors since it was a completely different offense under Fitzpatrick. Tua was rushed into action and I'm glad we got to see extended snaps, but to me it was clear that he's just not 100% ready to take the helm. And that's okay, there's no rule saying rookie QB's have to ball out, but we do need some consistency for Tua and I didn't see it over this final month.

To be clear - I didn't post this as a shoulda, woulda coulda. I posted this to highlight that Tua did always have the deficiencies we are seeing now. And perhaps, yes, we should look to draft another QB to compete.

"The Guy wrote:

I watched the whole video. His view of Tua's potentially being a bust was based almost entirely on his propensity for being hurt and missing game time. There was very little of his performance that the person's opinion was based on. Showed some negative plays, sure, but all QBs have those. What he didn't do was take the negative plays and show them to be indicative of an ability flaw that's likely to persist. That's what bust potential should be based on, primarily.

Tua could be a bust, sure, but if he is, this guy's prediction of that will have been based on luck and not his actual appraisal of the player.

It looked to me that all of the issues Tua had, as shown in the video, are persisting now though.

"Jersey Dolfan wrote:

To be clear - I didn't post this as a shoulda, woulda coulda. I posted this to highlight that Tua did always have the deficiencies we are seeing now. And perhaps, yes, we should look to draft another QB to compete.

You posted one person's opinion with an extremist view (biggest bust in 2020 NFL draft). You'll find few here who agree with that statement- even those of us who would have preferred a different QB.

"Rick 1966 wrote:

Um, no. Nothing we do here is productive. It produces nothing. We're here to talk. None of that talk will change anything, it just gives us a place to vent and/or commiserate and far too rarely with this team, celebrate the wins. Being "positive" will accomplish nothing. Being "negative" will accomplish nothing. We're all just blowing off steam. I don't know why it's so hard for some people to understand the absolute UNIMPORTANCE of the "attitude" any of us take here. Hell, there's precious few people who even post on message forums anymore.

To each his own, I guess. Many of us here actually talk about the present and the future.

"KeyFin wrote:

To each his own, I guess. Many of us here actually talk about the present and the future.

All of us here are talking about the present and the future. We just disagree on which way we should go. Tua is the present. I hope to God the team doesn't think he's the future because he shows zero promise of ever being anything more than a game manager style QB, which is not what we thought we were getting with the fifth overall pick.

"KeyFin wrote:

I get that, but we can't change the past and there's no sense dwelling over what we could have done differently. It's a lot more productive to focus on today and what could change now & in the future....that's what the team can control now.

Well we change our Qb in 2021.Draft Zach Wilson!He acutually has first rd talent unlike Tua.

"KeyFin wrote:

You posted one person's opinion with an extremist view (biggest bust in 2020 NFL draft). You'll find few here who agree with that statement- even those of us who would have preferred a different QB.

One person's view, which is panning out pretty well as of now.

"KeyFin wrote:

To each his own, I guess. Many of us here actually talk about the present and the future.

Seems more like some of you are making excuses for the present, and wishfully thinking about the future. I think really what people mean when they say "can't change the past" is that since we already drafted Tua, they have to continue to hope/pretend he is going to be amazing, and can't bother to acknowledge some of his obvious issues.

"Jersey Dolfan wrote:

Seems more like some of you are making excuses for the present, and wishfully thinking about the future. I think really what people mean when they say "can't change the past" is that since we already drafted Tua, they have to continue to hope/pretend he is going to be amazing, and can't bother to acknowledge some of his obvious issues.

I never said any of that. Again, I was against drafting him to begin with- but that does not make him the biggest bust of 2020 after starting 10 games. Maybe he develops, maybe he doesn't...that's still an unknown.

Nobody here said that there aren't obvious issues either...but I guess you wouldn't know that with the drive-by posts on the final day of the season.

We have the third pick in the draft period.

It is the one position in football that can lift an entire team. If there are QBs that grade significantly better than Tua, we should be willing to draft them.

I wanted Herbert, but like one poster essentially said, it is what it is. Here is the thing, I think Tua's season was a mixed bag. He had pluses and minuses. Somethings were his fault, some were beyond his control, and some he will get better at with time.

I think it is fair to say:

-Offensive talent was lacking
-He was coming off of a major injury
-Camp was very limited
-He regressed the last few games
-Chan Gailey did not trust him and was part of the problem
-The offense looked better under Fitz
-He throws very accurate passes
-At times, he read the field quickly
-He has a quick release
-He holds the ball too long
-He needs to be more willing as a runner

His strengths are in all the right areas for being a successful QB. The potential is certainly there.

I think that an issue this board faces is oftentimes semantics, so I wanna clarify what I mean before I make my next point. In my mind, "giving up on a player" means that they are so bad that a team is willing to move from them without a clear replacement in mind because they know "he isn't the answer." I think the best example of this is Haskins.

In no way, do I think that we are in this situation. I think that we are in a situation where we should weigh all options. I think part of that process will likely be a new offensive coordinator. I think that he should review Tua's tape and help in the decision making.

"Rick 1966 wrote:

Um, no. Nothing we do here is productive. It produces nothing. We're here to talk. None of that talk will change anything, it just gives us a place to vent and/or commiserate and far too rarely with this team, celebrate the wins. Being "positive" will accomplish nothing. Being "negative" will accomplish nothing. We're all just blowing off steam. I don't know why it's so hard for some people to understand the absolute UNIMPORTANCE of the "attitude" any of us take here. Hell, there's precious few people who even post on message forums anymore.

I once said that you could print out everything ever posted on a message board and not be able to sell it for 50 cents to a millionaire. ;)

"tirty8 wrote:

If there are QBs that grade significantly better than Tua, we should be willing to draft them.

Here's the thing though- Tua graded very high by the majority of the football community, including our front office. They thought he was a can't-miss prospect...and maybe that's what he turns out to be. Then again, maybe not.

My point is that experts believe that there's 3 or 4 "sure things" in this draft as well, which means absolutely nothing when you're talking about a transition from college to the NFL. Personally, I think there might be two (Lawrence & Fields) but there are also a lot of QB's I really like that could develop into the best overall from this class.

For instance, Trask reminds me a lot of Herbert, but he also reminds me a lot of Chad Henne. Fantastic arm strength, good decision making...he could be the top pick of the lot as the 6th or 7th overall QB off the boards. Or he could just as easily be a complete bust...there's no way to know for sure. Then again, Henne had a 10+ year career and showed elite talent at times...who's to say he wouldn't be the next Favre with the right team/coaching early on?

There are so many variables on why a QB does/doesn't develop...which is why it's so hard to draft a "sure thing" these days.

[ATTACH:full]

"KeyFin wrote:

Here's the thing though- Tua graded very high by the majority of the football community, including our front office. They thought he was a can't-miss prospect...and maybe that's what he turns out to be. Then again, maybe not.

My point is that experts believe that there's 3 or 4 "sure things" in this draft as well, which means absolutely nothing when you're talking about a transition from college to the NFL. Personally, I think there might be two (Lawrence & Fields) but there are also a lot of QB's I really like that could develop into the best overall from this class.

For instance, Trask reminds me a lot of Herbert, but he also reminds me a lot of Chad Henne. Fantastic arm strength, good decision making...he could be the top pick of the lot as the 6th or 7th overall QB off the boards. Or he could just as easily be a complete bust...there's no way to know for sure. Then again, Henne had a 10+ year career and showed elite talent at times...who's to say he wouldn't be the next Favre with the right team/coaching early on?

There are so many variables on why a QB does/doesn't develop...which is why it's so hard to draft a "sure thing" these days.

I think that anyone who put him in a can't miss prospect category was valuing production ahead of traits.

In the drafting process, I posed the question, "What was his elite trait?" There were not a lot of good responses on this board. People seemed to like his footwork which I think his time in Miami has shown us that he is not elite. I also thought that was an odd trait to really hang onto when drafting.

Herbert had objectively has an elite frame and arm, and I thought that there was a more probable pathway to success.

I would take odds with anyone calling him can't-miss coming off of that injury.

I am very early in the process, so it is hard for me to tell you what I think of the other QBs at the moment other than Lawrence (elite).

I'm obviously down on the way Tua ended the season, but breaking news is that we just fired Gailey. I think that is very good news for Tua, and if we hire someone that runs a system closer to a college style offense, that really bodes well for Tua.

I think being concerned is reasonable, but I think doom and gloom is overdone as well.