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Final Roster Discussion

Discussion in '2015 GM League Forum' started by GridIronKing34, May 6, 2015.

  1. Kingdom

    Kingdom Coming back disassembled.

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    W.V.

    I largely kept my team together because I wanted to get a feel for this version of GML, because I am not familiar with the majority of the people here. And I'm OK with that, and didn't expect any recognition. But as a Steeler fan, I fully appreciate your handling of them the way you did, I think you have one of the best offenses in the league without question. So I applaud your work. I often wonder how I would run them if I ever had them in GML. I tend to trade like a crazy ****er in other GML leagues (or any sim league) but I believe I'd stand pat with them largely in the same way you have.
     
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  2. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    Well Stitches might be more a victim of people piling on certain positions and basically overdoing it. Example: Already had the NFL's #1 rated OL..but I still went out and traded for a future hall of fame guard.
     
  3. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    I'll just settle for his fingers... the current queen is hawt..

    [​IMG]
     
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  4. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Well now I feel like a dick. :(


    Looks like I did get nominated in the recount of the things I thought I did well in.
     
  5. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    You are a dick, Peter.
     
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  6. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    When voting for Best Draft or Best Free Agency, I'd respectfully ask ya'll to please keep in mind that 8 of my UDFAs/PS guys were drafted. Translates to basically getting a 2nd rounder, 3rd, two 4ths, and four 6ths for free.

    SS - Jordan Richards, 2.64
    OT - Chaz Green, 3.91
    DT - Rodney Gunter, 4.116
    OL - Terry Poole, 4.130
    LB - Deiontrez Mount, 6.177
    LB - Matthew Wells, 6.178
    CB - Jacorey Sheperd, 6.191
    LB - Amarlo Herrera, 6.207
     
  7. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    I don't think some people understand that a best of free agency and a best of draft is more about value then name recognition. I'm 100% convinced that concept is lost on half the league.
     
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  8. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    I concur, not even a nomination for either had me a bit puzzled, I thought I added value in both areas but so goes the bellyaching life of a veteran GM.
     
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  9. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Personally, I am not going to evaluate PS players as a draft class evaluation (unless they were in fact drafted by that team and cut) or as a free agent signing. UDFAs who are on a final roster will be evaluated as part of a FA class (not as part of draft class IMO), sure, but a team that signs 29 players in FA to their roster simply won't get my vote for best in FA either.
     
  10. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    Why would you omit Practice Squad players from consideration when they can be elevated to the 53 man at any time? Might as well omit everything from consideration then b/c I don't think New England drafted Jordan Richards in round 2 with the intention of sitting him on Sundays, and I doubt Arizona gave up 6th & 7th rounders to trade up in round 4 to make Rodney Gunter the highest selected small school D-lineman for the purpose of adding an extra camp body.

    We were all afforded 10 PS players. I only signed 9. 4 of those were drafted. Total draft compensation: 2nd, 4th, 6th, 6th, 6th, and 7th rounders. If that doesn't merit value consideration than I don't know what does, ESPECIALLY consideriring these are practice squad guys. These should be the leftovers, the scraps after everything had been taken in the draft and FA.... yet I still plucked great value from it.

    I know what you're suggesting and it's pretty insulting. I didn't throw a heap of of players against the wall hoping a few would stick so that I could then call myself a genius for simply getting lucking. I had a 50% hit rate, Pete. I grabbed 8 UDFA's. 4 were drafted, all before the 7th round, including 3rd & 4th rounders.

    If you include PS players, 8 of 17 were drafted, all before round 7. Again, collectively I added a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 4th, 6th, 6th, 6th, and 6th rounder to my roster at no cost. If that happens to be remarkable compared to the rest of the league, then it most certainly deserves merit.
     
  11. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    Best in Draft is based on players you... wait for it... wait for it... DRAFTED. Maybe we should just add another category.. best in UDFA... and while we are it.. best in PS...

    Hell.. lets add best in passing attack... best in rushing attack... best in rush defense... best in pass defense... best blitzers... .... worst GM? maybe I could win something then.. :yes:
     
  12. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Then its settled.

    I drafted Winston, Gordon, Lockette, Q.Rollins, Mycole Pruitt etc.

    Easy choice
     
  13. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Because they can be elevated to ANYONE's roster at any time. You don't value them enough to put them on your roster, and as such I will not give you value to players not on your roster.

    I'm suggesting the way to build a good team and the best way to use FA is to use it for supplementing your roster, not for completely overhauling it (which means you clearly didn't know what I was suggesting based on the sentence that followed your claim). If you find that insulting, that's on you. It wasn't said to be insulting, it's simply the truth in how I will/won't vote.


    As far as deserving merit, there is a reason you were nominated in my top 3 for "future powerhouse". But if you want to take that as an insult as well, you are free to.
     
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  14. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

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    Really don't know why the Colts are getting so much consideration for GM of the year. I don't get how people are praising a "rebuilding job" after dismantling a team that was young and with a promising future ahead of them after making the AFC Championship his past year. Would have LOVED to see how stitches would have managed that team.

    That being said the colts did draft well, but they did so with Ammo that they paid handily for; LT Antony Castonzo for a 4th was probably one the most lopsided trades of the year (I even offered the Titans a 2nd in the 30's for Castonzo and the Titans turned me down...
     
  15. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    .... and Best in Free Agency is based on players you... wait for it.... wait for it.... sign as FREE AGENTS, and UDFA's & PS players are... wait for it... wait for it...... FREE AGENTS, so enough with the condesecion, Paul.

    Hell, let's change "Best in FA" to "Best in Veteran Free Agency"... and then omit the entire UFDA/PS process since according to you it apparently has no meaning in this application even though the actual NFL teams would vehemently disagree.

    NFL current "All-Undrafted team"
    [TABLE="width: 300"]
    [TR]
    [TD="align: center"][/TD]
    [TD]Offense[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="align: center"]QB
    RB
    RB
    COP
    FB
    WR
    WR
    WR
    WR
    TE
    Hback
    LT
    LG
    C
    RG
    RT[/TD]
    [TD]Tony Romo
    Arian Foster
    CJ Anderson, Isaiah Crowell
    Danny Woodhead, Branden Oliver
    John Kuhn, Marcel Reese
    Victor Cruz
    Miles Austin
    Wes Welker
    Malcolm Floyd, Doug Baldwin
    Antonio Gates
    Tim Wright
    Jason Peters
    Ronald Leary
    Brian DeLa Puenta
    Alex Boone
    Demar Dotson[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]
    [TABLE="width: 340"]
    [TR]
    [TD="align: center"][/TD]
    [TD]Defense[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="align: center"]DE
    DT
    DT
    DE
    SAM
    MLB
    WILL
    CB
    CB
    Nickel
    FS
    SS
    KR[/TD]
    [TD]Cam Wake, Junior Galette
    Desmond Bryant, Tommy Kelly
    Damon Harrison, Cullen Jenkins
    Michael Bennett, Chris Clemons
    James Harrison, Junior Galette
    Jerrell Freeman, David Hawthorne
    Vontaze Burfict, Wesley Woodyard
    Brent Grimes, Brandon Browner
    Chris Harris, Sam Shields
    Tramon Williams, Tramaine Brock
    Tashaun Gipson, Mike Adams
    James Ihedigbo, Barry Church
    Josh Cribbs[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]

    Wait, let me grab some popcorn before you tell these guys they don't matter, especially the Pro Bowlers. Must've infuriated you knowing you've gotta pay Sam Shields 9M since his undrafted arse doesn't count. :wink2:
     
  16. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

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    Cherry picking data is cool.
     
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  17. Nappy Roots

    Nappy Roots Well-Known Member

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    Me too. I don't put much stock into voting on here. I just enjoy putting the team together...But my front 7 is MUCH better then half the list up for vote. and its not even close...Whatevs...
     
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  18. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    I feel the same way. Some of the teams there are a joke and it discredits the league imo.
     
  19. Boik14

    Boik14 Admin Club Member Retired Administrator

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    I get both sides of this argument about UDFA's counting or not counting as part of a draft class. I would argue they do count (even though I didnt bother since I had a full roster) because technically it serves the same purpose as a drafted player....cheap labor source who can outperform his current contract in hopes of a better one. A draft class is supposed to be a drafted player I guess but every year many teams will get one or two UDFA's on their roster and many times they make big contributions. They are a big part of the team building process. I dont really see Todds argument as unreasonable or argumentative. He has a valid point.
     
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  20. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    I didn't dismantle a young team actually. I trimmed unnecessary fat and moved pieces around to improve it as a whole. End result is all that matters, no?

    Here's the defense I inherited. It had a few bright spots but was a pile of junk as a whole.
    [TABLE="class: grid, width: 400"]
    [TR]
    [TD][/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]Inherited[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]End result[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]
    DE
    NT
    DE
    OLB
    ILB
    ILB
    OLB
    CB
    CB
    SS
    FS
    Nickel CB
    Backup S

    [/TD]
    [TD]Kelcey Quarles
    Josh Champman
    Arthur Jones
    Eric Walden
    D'Qwell Jackson
    Josh McNary
    Jonathan Newsome
    Vontae Davis
    Greg Toler
    Guy Winston
    Delano Howell
    Sheldon Price
    Dewey McDonald
    [/TD]
    [TD]Darnell Dockett
    Terrance Knighton
    Raji/Redding
    J Peppers
    Bobby Wagner
    Malcom Smith
    Vic Beasley
    Byron Maxwell
    Tramon Williams
    Landon Collins
    George Illoka
    Tarrel Brown
    Jordan Richards [R2]
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="align: center"][/TD]
    [TD="align: left"]$15M in cap space
    to work with after
    adjusting for dead
    money and unused
    money[/TD]
    [TD][/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]

    [TABLE="class: grid, width: 700"]
    [TR]
    [TD="align: center"]Luck's Weapons[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]Inherited[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]End result[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]
    RB
    [/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]T Richardson, Dan Herron
    [/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]Spiller, Tevin Coleman
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="align: center"]TE[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]Allen, Fleener[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]Jordan Cameron, Charles Clay[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="align: center"]WR[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]Hilton, Moncrief, Whalen,
    Duron Carter, Kadron Boone
    [/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]Cobb, Britt, Corey Fuller,
    Marquess Wilson, Jamison Crowder
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]

    I didn't inherit enough cap space to fix both the terrible run-blocking O-line [ranked 25th in YPC, 22nd in yards, 23rd in Rushing TDs] and the problematic defense [ranked 19th in scoring, 23rd in rushing avg, 21st in rushing TDs, 21st in INTs, 20th in Passing TDs, and allowed 4 games of 40+ pts, and that was with Pro Bowler Mike Adams, Cory Redding, Jerrell Freeman, nickel CB Darius Butler, LaRon Landry, and Sergio Brown who all became FA's].............. so I unfortunately had to involve other assets which meant trading away players.

    [TABLE="class: grid, width: 840"]
    [TR]
    [TD="align: left"]Trade of Vontae, Moncrief,
    TRich [$15M][/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]became[/TD]
    [TD]B Maxwell, J Peppers, Landon Collins [since I had no SS], and Davis Tull[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Castonzo, Arthur Jones,
    Mathis, Greg Toler, [27M][/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]became[/TD]
    [TD]Cobb, Britt, Spiller, Dockett, Henry Anderson [Stanford], Jamison Crowder,
    and the 4th used to acquire George Illoka
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="align: left"]Jerrell Freeman, Fleener, 1.29[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]became[/TD]
    [TD]Vic Beasley[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Dwayne Allen, 4th, 4th[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]became[/TD]
    [TD]George Illoka
    [I had no FS and Illoka's great coverage ability is a key piece to running a successful Cover-3]
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]DT Zach Kerr[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]became[/TD]
    [TD]starting LG/RT Daryl Williams [Oklahoma][/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]TY Hilton, 3.93[/TD]
    [TD="align: center"]became[/TD]
    [TD]Bobby Wagner [1st Team All Pro][/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]

    Every position or positional group but 2 was upgraded in my humble opinion. Left tackle was downgraded [but O-line as a whole was improved] and WR broke about even, although it would've been significantly upgraded if I didn't trade Hilton for Wagner prior to the draft; however, Luck's weapons were still left noticeably upgraded w/o Hilton so it was a no-brainer for me to swap him for the centerpiece of my defense. So I managed to completely rebuild a shoddy defense into something to be reckoned with, and in the process I still managed to fix the ground game and upgrade Luck's weapons....and I did it with about $18 million in unused or unusable cap space.... so what's the problem? LOL
     
  21. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    I was only referring to the best in draft vote. Didn't realize you were guys were talking about FA... my bad I guess.
     
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  22. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    LOL not cherry picking anything Senor Dentista. Just pointing out how dumb it is to ignore undrafted players, and unlike the "all-undrafted team" I provided, my players didn't actually go undrafted. 8 actually WERE drafted. That's the equivalent of an entire draft for some teams.... and it came at no cost to myself. I had as many UDFAs and PS guys drafted as 20 GMs had actual draft picks..... but for some silly reason you think it carries no value and represents zero potiential for team contribution just b/c they went undrafted in OUR league. Why even have a Best Draft if you associate no value to actual drafted players?

    BDog's actual draft consisted of rounds 3, 3, 5, 6, and 7.
    Sean's: 2, 4, 5, 6, 6, 6, 7, 7, 7, 7
    Nappy's: 2, 3, 4, 7, 7, 7
    Paul's: 2, 4, 7, 7, 7
    Todd's UDFA/PS: 2, 3, 4, 4, 6, 6, 6, 6 [plus the 6th & 7th that Arizona used to trade up for Rodney Gunter]

    So I guess their 4 drafts are even less meaningless than my UDFA/PS guys by your definition eh? :001_rolleyes:
     
  23. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    WADR that's patently absurd, Pete. Firstly it's about strategy. It's about identiftying players I value but think can be acquired without resource allocation [IE: UDFA & PS] so that my draft picks can be used on guys I similarly value but don't think will go undrafted. Why do you think 7 of my 8 larger-school UDFAs/PS guys were drafted by round 6? I clearly identified the right talent as supported by their draft status, but unfortunately each GM operates with a finite number of draft picks. You yourself had 9 draft picks, so by your own definition does that mean you only valued 9 players among the 500+ available?

    This stuff peeves me a little b/c last year I identified Justin Britt, Russell Bodine, Branden Oliver, and Kevin Pierre Louis as 4 of my 5 UDFA targets. Is it a coincidence that Britt & Bodine were starters, Oliver impressed the football world, and Pierre-Louis looked good enough to make Malcolm Smith expendable?... yet they collectively did nothing to influence my overall Free Agency class. I gushed about Oliver before the draft and graded him a 3rd round talent.... but according to your theory, I didn't value him at all b/c I opted to not use a draft pick on him. :unsure:

    Secondly, I cut two offensive linemen and a safety to make room for Chaz Green [3rd round], Terry Poole [4th round], and Jordan Richards [2nd round], so your argument against them is invalid.

    Thirdly, even if I didn't active roster them, do you honestly think a 2nd, 3rd, and two 4th rounders won't get immediately elevated to my 53 man roster to prevent being poached? Heck, I even mentioned in my writeup the plans I had for Jordan Richards in my base nickel package.

    Fourthly, value is value. If you acquire a guy at a lesser cost than he's worth, it contains value. Otherwise, according to your argument, we shouldn't have a "Best in Draft" b/c your argument contradicts the main constituent used to assess it- value. Your argument suggests that UCF should deserve no credit for Ereck Flowers, DJ Humphries, and Ali Marpett b/c he "didn't value them enough to take them with higher picks commensurate with their actual NFL draft value". Ditto for your selection of Donovan Smith in round 4, so it cuts both ways. On this subject, it's not a shocker that Humphries & Flowers represented value at the time they were drafted, so I personally think UCF deserves only partial credit for drafting a pair of linemen whom everyone else passed over simply b/c the league happens to devalue the position. He was basically sitting at the treshhold where it became IMPOSSIBLE to pass on them, as opposed to having a gut feeling about a pair of less heralded players that paid off.

    So basically you care more about whether or not the GM uses your preferred approach to team/roster building than how well he actually improves it? Did you loathe Miami's offseason with all the action transpiring- parting ways with Wallace, Hartline, Gibson, Clay, Starks, Odrick, Ellerbe, Wheeler, and Wilson, some of which to make room for Suh's 100M? Either you improve your team or you don't. The path taken should be irrelevant b/c not everyone wants to use the same approach, and until the league adopts a universal standard for team building, no one should be punished for the approach they take so long as it's effective. "Did you use a solid overall combination of draft, trades, free agency, and vision to improve the team you inherited better than the other 31 GMs did theirs, and did you do so fairly, honestly, and with integrity?" That's the simple question.

    And I greatly appreciate that vote, Pete, but please let's not divert here. We're not talking about future powerhouse. We're generally discussing the value of UDFA/PS guys who actually get drafted, FA of Year, and GM of Year.
     
  24. Bdogtitan11

    Bdogtitan11 New Member

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    God, Todd's logic hurts my brain sometimes...and not because of the reason he thinks it does.

    And since everyone is using this forum as an opportunity to do some late self-promotion...really surprised we're not getting more love for best offensive weapons. Best 1-2 WR combo around...Jeremy Hill was a Top 10 rb as a rookie, and we sprinkled in some nice complimentary pieces behind him...Two solid TEs...one of the top young FBs around...and if QBs are included, well, I'm not sure there should even be a discussion quite frankly. Just curios, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
     
  25. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    I wouldn't say it's unreasonable (certainly wasn't argumentative when he made his original appeal), but I simply don't agree. UDFA = undrafted free agent

    They should be included in free agent evaluation if they are on your final roster, just as I said originally.
     
  26. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    I only grabbed 2 UDFA's to basically fill my roster then forgot about them as they were both drafted by those dirty dirty Patriots.

    Only the Pats can get away with drafting a Long Snapper in the 5th.
     
  27. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    My argument is not invalid, because if you cut someone for a UDFA, that means they are on your roster and I specifically said UDFAs would be counted in my evaluation of the team and FA if they are on your roster. 53 man roster =/= practice squad.

    We have no way to prove a team's effectiveness, so every voter is basing everything on their own personal preference and definition of "best". If you think you did so well, that's great, obviously others are voting for you in multiple categories as well so some agree with your sentiment. My lone vote in any given category that doesn't go towards you is not punishment, it is merely my own opinion.



    In regards to the Dolphins question, it certainly didn't transpire how I would have done it as I wouldn't have parted with all of those players if it were up to me (Wallace, Clay, and at least Odrick or Starks) but I am certainly hopeful that it works. With that said, I'd have been pretty damn forlorn if the Dolphins got rid of everyone except Tannehill, Fields, and Sturgis in a single offseason.
     
  28. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Am I the only one who thinks this is much ado about nothing???
     
  29. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think that's debatable. I love Green and Nelson, but Megatron and V-Jax are pretty damn good. Add in Golden Tate and I've probably got the best 1-3 with all three being Pro Bowlers. You definitely have the edge at HB, but I like my two rookies about as much as I liked Hill going into his rookie year. If QBs were included I think you'd have it pretty easily, though.
     
  30. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You Club Member

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    Julian Edelman though........
     
  31. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    shiet... I put together the greatest qb / wr combo in nfl history...
     
  32. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    Steve Young and Jerry Rice?
    Tom Brady and Randy Moss?
     
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  33. Bdogtitan11

    Bdogtitan11 New Member

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    You definitely have the best trio, I don't think any informed voter would argue that. It's an opinion, but I don't think anyone tops Green-Nelson...look what Green has done without a good quarterback, imagine what he'll do with Brees and a competent WR opposite of him.
     
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  34. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    how dare you not say Marino and Clayton? and you call yourself a Dolfan...

    Aaron Rodgers to Dez Bryant would be silly.
     
  35. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Thee...Ohio State University
    No.

    A-Rod and Demaryus Thomas...
     
  36. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Thee...Ohio State University
    I like the way Emmanuel Sanders and Brandon Marshall complement each other then when you factor in Julius Thomas...
     
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  37. Bdogtitan11

    Bdogtitan11 New Member

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    It's a good combo...but you like them more than Green&Nelson or Jax&Megatron&Tate??? One didn't have a 1000-yard season until Peyton Manning became his QB and then trailed off significantly at the end of the season (No games with 80+ receiving yards in final six games) and the other is 31 and was traded for a fifth in the real league. And is coming off his worst season. It's certainly an upgrade for the Vikings and gives young Bridgewater two proven targets...but neither are the same type of game changers as Green, Nelson or Megatron, IMO.
     
  38. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    LOL, thanks I think.

    I haven't had a chance to vote yet but I'm sure your cast will warrant high consideration from me. As far as my own goes, I'm not really self-promoting. Merely having a discussion about a topic that a disagreement exists on, just as we do in this place all the time outside of the GM League.

    Personally, I don't think I should win GM of Year. I botched my draft big time by screwing up my time slots which cost me two important trade-backs in round 1. It heavily altered my first 3 rounds. Left me needing to reach for positional needs, whereas the two tradebacks had me set up for gobbling up value. Then in FA, UCF and I dedicated too much time and resources to two particular players which hindered our team building- caused us to ignore aspects of our rosters and miss out on value FA signings while our cap space was tied up in bidding. Those are 2 critical mistakes so I personally wouldn't vote for myself. There were a handful of GMs who were solid FA. I'm not saying I deserve it more than they do. I'm simply asking for ALL free agents to be taken into consideration since UDFAs [including those sent to the PS] are an integral part of the actual NFL.
     
    Bdogtitan11 likes this.
  39. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    okay... I changed my vote.
     
  40. Vengeful Odin

    Vengeful Odin Norse Mod Staff Member

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    Kansas City, MO
    Everyone is wrong. We all know that Chip Kelly and the Eagles had the best, well, everything. The fact that we aren't being recognized is fine. We don't care. It's cool. :cry:
     
    Paul 13 and Fin-Omenal like this.

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