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Fascinating Piece By Greg Cosell

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Da 'Fins, Mar 21, 2013.

  1. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I posted this in the draft forum also. I know this is not directly Dolphin related (so if it needs to be moved, I understand) - however indirectly I think it relates to all our discussions on the Dolphins direction and that's why I'm posting it here as to what Cosell argues below and a) how legit his theories are; b) how this might impact the Dolphins draft (esp. connected to Austin and CB's - as well as pursuit of pass rushers - which are sorely needed); and c) what areas the Dolphins may need to adjust their present roster as the NFL continues to evolve.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/cosell-seahawks-set-tone-nfl-free-agency-181559870--nfl.html

     
    the 23rd, Lee2000, Sceeto and 10 others like this.
  2. Rhody Phins Fan

    Rhody Phins Fan Well-Known Member

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    These are the types of options that a player like Tavon Austin would give Miami. This is what Ross has always wanted: a dynamic and exciting offense fitting the city of Miami. Hopefully this coaching staff is creative enough to think outside the box.
     
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  3. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    This type of stuff (in regards to Harvin) is exactly why I love Tavon Austin for this offense grouped with Wallace, Miller, Keller, & Tannehill. Using Tavon in presnap motion to stretch the field horizontally with Wallace & Keller who can stretch it vertically, complimented by the speed of Miller at tailback and the athleticism & decent speed of Tannehill at QB. It's one big cluster**** for a defense to prepare for and attempt to stop. Take Tavon off the field and the dynamic completely changes, obviously for the worse. He's the remaining thread that ties it all together.
     
  4. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Who saw that one coming?

    Danger is 'chasing the trend", that "joker" also means lighter defensive players, this has all happened before Da fins

    The "next" offensive trend will then be power running to maul those lighter defenders.

    Meanwhile, tbh, the balanced approach also means..you sacrifice passrushing for "run stopping".
     
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  5. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    One thing that is happening as well is guys who are weighing 260 who are still really lean (because of weight training; etc.) and have exceptional quickness, speed and power. The entire league is changing in that way. Just look at Philip Wheeler. He's 6'2, 240 and his body is so lean he looks like a WR or CB.

    So, while the NFL might go more power (and power teams are still there - Baltimore won the SB, after all), teams can still stop the run with athletic and powerful players. Maybe 1-2 mammoths in the middle and the other front 5 being lean and powerful - who can all get to the QB.

    The Tavon Austin issue and the CB factor is also interesting. Makes a kid like Banks all the more interesting.
     
  6. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει

    I think it's fascinating that you think we would read all dem there words.

    Post in picture form please.
     
  7. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Hmm, I knew literacy skills were slipping around the country but..
     
  8. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    This evolvement is great, it's what I thought would happen when the wildcat first started, just needed to find the special signal caller that had the athletic ability to execute a full passing offense horizontally and vertical, great Qb athleticism, and be able to run a power spread run game like the pistol, hesitation by defenders by scheme and formation from the offense is the key, it's an unfair platform for which to start the play..

    Offensively speaking, Tavon Austin makes the offense truly lethal, Wallace/Austin truly test the vert/horiz concepts to its max ..His talent is unquestioned, in space, it becomes easy..

    So Mark Trestman has stated that jay cutler will be running the zone read..I hope to see what Tannehill can do..
     
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  9. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    You know, I've been saying for a while now that the brightest coaching minds in football are not in the NFL, or at the major college level. Those minds are at the lower levels of college football, as these are the coaches that have to come up with schemes to beat teams with better talent than they have. Who knew that when Chris Ault decided way back when that he wanted to combine the passing concepts of the top spread offenses of the day with the ability to continue to have a power oriented, downhill running game that he would come up with a formation that is likely the most versatile formation to obtain balance in your play calling while also keeping up with the innovations in the game.
     
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  10. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Deej Bro, trust me, this will hit the rocks soon enough.

    "If" this cannot last in the CFL, on a wider field, and a smaller pool of DefCord's to figure it out, how long will it last in the NFL with a smaller field and 32 DefCord's figuring it out?

    As I've said, think a sort of S/Lb Hybrid who can cover and blitz and keep up with the athletic Qb's.
     
  11. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    This is actually an idea that has stood the test of time already. It's just getting more publicized now than it was back in the 1980s. The fact of the matter is that when Bill Walsh created his offense, his goal was to create space on the field and get the ball into the hands of his playmakers quickly and allow them to work in the space created. It was actually Sid Gillman that came up with the passing concepts of vertical stretches, horizontal stretches, and man reads. Bill Walsh took those concepts and expounded on them in his offense. Walsh was the pioneer of doing what guys like Mike McCarthy and Sean Payton are doing and what Joe Philbin wants to do. Walsh essentially discovered that a great way to create space was to combine the vertical stretches and horizontal stretches into the same play. Prior to that, you would have teams doing one or the other, flooding that particular zone. Walsh combined the concepts and started using triangle reads.
     
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  12. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    I said last year before the season started the Seahawks what should have been Miami's perfect plan for addressing the QB position and they continue on that path. Schneider / Carroll have done an incredible job with assembling the Seahawks. Trading for Harvin was a great move if he can stay on the field. There is a good chance the two best teams over the 5+ years reside in the NFC West.

    I hope Miami doesn't spend #12 on Austin hoping he can fulfill the role Harvin will be in Seattle, just not physical enough. Probably would end up in the long line of 1st round draft picks having short careers in a Dolphin uniform.
     
  13. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Suffice it to say Kb, to quote Wally Buono:

    "..if they had called us prior to the championship game..they would have won.."

    You can google it if one cares to "NFL teams calling the CFL for tips on how to stop.."

    De's and Lb's won't be fooled for very long.
     
  14. BayAreaFinFan

    BayAreaFinFan D'oh

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    I was already on board for drafting Austin, this article has me drooling over the possibilities if we do! The speed we would have on the offensive side of the ball would be ridiculous. Wallace, Miller, and Austin! Don't forget Tanny ran something like a 4.59 at his pro day, which is nothing to sneeze at.
     
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  15. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    Yup, Gillman's philosophy was to make opposing defenses have to "defend every blade of grass".
     
  16. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Gotta agree with Cosell about the physicality of the secondary (CB's specifically) going into this new offensive generation. I've always preferred the man press of the Dolphins circa 97-04. With Sam Madison and Patrick Surtain mobbing defenders and letting the DL do work in the pocket. One of the reasons I thought we always seemed to have success defensively against the Brady's and Manning's. Which has happened significantly less over the years. Never was too thrilled about the new zone D rumor personally.

    I wonder if Miami is planning on a similar concept for our defensive line. GC description of Seattle's new acquisition's and the plan for them would seem to fit in well with Miami given the Solai, Starks and Odrick situation. All we would need is a pass rushing specialist for nickle/dime and we would have the same versatility.
     
  17. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Really you have to have two elements to accomplish that, elite speed at the receiver position, and a strong armed Qb.
     
  18. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    Yeah! Pop up pictures!!
     
  19. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm not really convinced about Austin's potential contributions from the backfield. He's a threat in the open field but I'm not sure he has particularly good vision or skills before he gets there. He'll almost certainly be good on jet sweeps and reverses and the like, but other then that? Percy Harvin was way more productive and prolific as a college rusher and that hasn't really translated into a lot with him.
     
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  20. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    I think Cosell is wrong about shift to press-man. It's the wrong way to go.
     
  21. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I never thought Harvin had great vision as a runner. At UF his successful runs were almost all plays where he just ran straight through the designed hole. Basically they were successful b/c of scheme and his speed. I think Austin has better vision as a runner. The advantage Harvin has over Austin is power.
     
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  22. GreenMonster

    GreenMonster New Member

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    While I love reading all this stuff about new offenses and Tavon Austin, considering our strength at receiver now, shouldn't we be considering other positions more closely?
     
  23. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    I don't understand how you can read the stuff in this thread then ask that question.

    I mean, I can understand if you disagree with taking Austin, but acting like very specific reasons for taking him with our current WRs wasn't explained is weird to me.
     
  24. GreenMonster

    GreenMonster New Member

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    Well the same article also mentioned pass rushers. It is more likely to me that we go for an elite pass rusher, than another WR, considering 3 are set in stone.
     
  25. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    When Cosell was talking about Tavon he referenced this article and why Austin has increased value.
     
  26. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Harvin ran the counter play a lot at Florida:

    [video=youtube;9qhg9YsKkxc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qhg9YsKkxc[/video]
    [video=youtube;k3H_gFJX4vM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3H_gFJX4vM[/video]

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/82543-percy-harvins-signature-play-the-counter
     
  27. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Right. I guess I'm saying it seems like you're saying, "how can we be looking at Austin with all the moves we made?", when this entire thread is explaining why we'd be looking at him.

    Again, I understand if you don't want him and want other positions instead.
     
  28. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    http://www.dailymail.com/Sports/201211180117?page=2&build=cache

    Wow! The game where Austin had 344 yards rushing against Oklahoma, he ran variations of ONE play the entire game.

     
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  29. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The counter is still a designed hole. you're supposed to wait a beat for your blocker to make the hole and then run straight. the delay makes people think the back is making a read, but generally and in the videos here, the back is just waiting for the designed hole and running through it. That doesn't compare to Austin who has to sometimes make multiple cuts.
     
  30. GreenMonster

    GreenMonster New Member

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    I will say I believe that we probably are and should look into Austin. In my mind I think people are getting to much on the Austin bandwagon, when team has holes at other still premium positions and with the recent signing of Gibson.

    At this point if we pass on Austin at #12 for any other position, people are gonna rip Irelend.
     
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  31. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Fair enough.

    People are going to rip Ireland for ANY pick he makes.

    - Austin: A tiny WR after the FA period we had!!!!!!!!!!
    - Star/Jarvis: Spending a 12 on an injured player!!!!!!!!
    - Any OL: Another Olineman!!!!!!!!!!!
    - Any CB: Vontae Davis II!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    - Werner: Draft a guy at 12 that can be deported, brilliant Ireland!!!!!!!!!
    - Tank: I've seen mocks that had him going in the bottom of the 3rd!!!!!!!!!!
    - Any Defensive player: We need to score points!!!!!!
    - Any Offensive player: We need to create turnovers!!!!!!
     
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  32. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    If he's right, Miami is in trouble.
     
  33. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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  34. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    The best vision on that UF roster was Aaron Hernandez and it wasn't close.
     
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  35. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Even if he is, I don't see why.
     
  36. GreenMonster

    GreenMonster New Member

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    There has also been plenty of talk about Philbin wanting a better pass rush, and so far our moves with the LB's show that.
     
  37. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Dimitri Patterson and Richard Marshall doing it for you at corner? Agree to disagree on that one.
     
  38. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Not discussing athletes, rather schemes.
     
  39. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    IMO, there are really only two, maybe three players in this draft that would likely improve the pass rush early on in their career, and then you have a bunch of projects who may never "get it" so to speak.

    Bjorn Werner, Jarvis Jones, and perhaps Tank Carradine are your pass rushers in this draft. Dion Jordan, Keke Mingo, and Ezekial Ansah are your projects.

    An idea I would float out there though is that with the zone read become more prevalent, your ability to get a push from the inside becomes more important. Because of this, a guy like Sheldon Richardson may be more attractive than some of the project pass rushers.
     
  40. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Oh, ok. Fair enough.
     

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