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Expect Offset Language for Dion Jordan

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by RoninFin4, May 28, 2013.

  1. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/05/27/fight-expected-over-offsets-in-dion-jordan-deal/

    I think Florio's taking some liberties with the PFT headline in the link. I know there's been speculation about this among some members on the forums, and it appears we'll see it again this year with Dion Jordan. Hopefully, Aponte, Ireland, and co. can avoid the same situation that occurred with Ryan Tannehill last year.

    Anyone have any thoughts on how difficult it might be to include this with the number 3 pick versus the 8th pick (Tannehill)?

    For a guy who is going to miss the OTAs and is coming off shoulder surgery, I think it's critical that he's in for the start of camp. All he'll have been exposed to is the mandatory minicamp, and I've not seen anything about his ability to participate fully in that come about.

    This is a situation that bears watching over the coming months.

    Here's another link: http://www.rantsports.com/nfl/2013/...fset-language-keep-dion-jordan-off-the-field/

    It says Florio's source is "league insiders".
     
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  2. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    Look, it's just about all these guys have to negotiate over with the new CBA. The agent wants him to get the offset language, not for what it does for the Rookie, but for what it does for the agent, in the future.

    Him being the #3 overall, it's likely Jeffy will have to buckle on that issue, naturally depending on where the others slotted around him are...

    EDIT: BTW, Florio's main concern is hits on his site. He is known for having certain hotbuttons that he HAS to bring out, whether they are really of any consequence or not. The offset language is one of them...
     
  3. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    What makes you say that? Based on last year, Ireland and Aponte aren't likely to buckle in my opinion. Tannehill was drafted just 5 spots after.
     
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  4. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Eh, whatever, over the years I've sort of learned not to get to concerned of the GM stuff like this.
     
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  5. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    IIRC, last year two or three in the top ten did not have the offset language, including Tanny. But I think there is a big difference between #8 and #3 ?? I could be wrong, but I think they end up buckling if that is only holdup...
     
  6. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Goes without saying it's going to be a lot tougher to get a #3 overall pick to agree to this than it was the #8 overall pick. And it WAS difficult to get the #8 overall pick to agree to this. I believe the battle resulted in one of only two training camp holdouts out of the enitre rookie class, not to mention that embarrassing scene on Hard Knocks where Dawn Aponte is telling Ireland and Philbin that with things as they stand we're going to allow Ryan Tannehill to re-enter the 2013 NFL Draft.
     
  7. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Where do you stand on this topic, it seems that you don't believe in the tactic?
     
  8. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I believe it's not worth fighting over, in the least. I believe the scenario in which the offset language could come into play is far fetched to begin with, and the amount of financial gain for the team from having the offset language present in the contract in that far fetched scenario is miniscule. Remember, if we're talking about half a million dollars, consider what that half a million dollars means to a team that has a $120 million pay roll PER YEAR. Now consider what that half a million dollars means to a player that may, in this scenario (his being a bust) make somewhere between $10 and $15 million over the FULL LIFE of his NFL career. You're not even comparing $500k to $120 million versus $15 million, because the timelines don't match. Imagine this bust only plays in the NFL for 5 years, which constitutes the 4 year rookie deal plus 1 year elsewhere. He'll have made $10 to $15 million over that time period. The Dolphins will have paid out in excess of $600 million in pay roll during the period. In other words, the potential money being argued over between the team and the player is worth literally like 50x more to the player than to the team.

    Given that cost/benefit, I see absolutely no reason whatsoever for any NFL team to stage a fight over this offset issue. It's a miniscule amount of money in a far-fetched situation, and both the player and the agent have a LOT more incentive than you do to actually care about it. So why the hell are you bothering? Just go with precedent. If top 10 picks aren't getting offset language then fine, no offset language. The NFL has already busted down top ten pick rookie wages to a fraction of what they used to be. They're sitting on a horde of jewels and now they're clawing and scraping for pennies. The essence of greed.
     
  9. VManis

    VManis Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Here is the nugget in the article I found interesting:

    So if the agent for a highly prized FA didn't push for it, does this mean it is becoming less of an issue?

     
  10. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    From what I understand, offset language being inserted in veteran contracts has been common practice for quite a while. But it's a complicated issue because veteran contracts aren't fully guaranteed anyway (generally speaking).

    What is at issue with the rookie contract is that with top level 1st round picks, the entire contract is being guaranteed since it's now a fraction of what it used to be before the latest CBA. If before a guy was getting $70 million over 5 years, now he's getting $25 million over 5 years, and in exchange for that drastic reduction in fortune the entire contract is guaranteed. This means that if you cut the guy before his 4th year and his 4th year salary is about $3 million, you still owe him the $3 million. Offset language is trying to play with that $3 million by reducing it by whatever amount he may make with another team. It's just a nifty device aimed at lowering the value of the contract even further than the new CBA has already lowered.

    But in a veteran contract that last year of salary probably isn't guaranteed anyway, so the offset language doesn't really matter. So talking about offseat language with respect to veteran contracts is kind of a red herring. It's an empty argument aimed at pressuring the rookies to give up even more than they've already given up in the latest CBA.
     
  11. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    PFT: Dolphins insistence on offset language for top-10 rookies is expected to spread to Eagles, maybe to Browns

    Dolphins setting trends and leading the pack.
     
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  12. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    #extendireland
     
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  13. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Not that this is remotely comparable, but I believe D.J. Fluker (Chargers) signed his rookie contract with offset language attached today.
     
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  14. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So you agree that this language is so important that you would be willing to stand up for it, and allow your top 10 pick to renter the draft?

    We never did have the discussion on what if, what if Ryan believed in the opposite?, is it a good idea to be that set in stone on something where it becomes a non negotiable stipulation??

    This seems to me like it might be an ethics issue no?
     
  15. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    No offsets for Luke Joeckel, Jags just announced he signed.
     
  16. Triggercut

    Triggercut Well-Known Member

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    So, the final year of his rookie contract is 3 million. He signs with another team for 1.5 million, and the offset language says that Miami only has to pay him 1.5 million to have his total pay be the 3 million of his final year. He's still getting the 3 million it's just split between two teams.
     
  17. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Aponte is gonna piss me off if she can't come out and make a statement on why the hell it's so important for her to be so firm in the rule, if your gonna fu&$ with our players like that you be have a strong ethical conviction as to why?
     
  18. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Is that accurate?
     
  19. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You

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    I'm sure it's high on her priority list to explain herself to you...
     
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  20. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    yeah well if Jordan's people ain't having it I've already seen how stubborn she is on the subject, so we better hope that Jordan's people will cave, or somebody will have some splaining to do.
     
  21. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    And it likely won't be the FO.

    If they didn't cave on Tannehill they def won't cave w Jordan.
     
  22. Triggercut

    Triggercut Well-Known Member

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    From what I understand of the offset language it is.
     
  23. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    that's my point, Grid obviously forget the chick runs the show.
     
  24. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I see..basically their trying to hedge their bet....sometimes you gotta take the hit....playin fu&$in games could result in stunting the rookies growth so right there your wasting money.
     
  25. Vinny Fins

    Vinny Fins Feisty Brooklyn dolfan ️‍

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    "The Chick"... so if she had nuts you wouldnt have a problem with it.

    That 'chick' is a ****ing workhorse for this team and we are lucky to have her. Knock off the sexist crap and so some respect. If she was a man you wouldn't presume to know better than her, but she was born with girl parts so she must not understand the game like MANLY MEN, right?
     
  26. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Lol...Chick..Dude, it's all the same to me...if it was a guy who would of let Ryan Tannehill reenter the draft I would have the same frustration,..so piss off with your labeling BS.
     
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  27. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Yea, you frustrated sexist :lol:
     
  28. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm on the record giving her props on many occasions, I'm also on the record saying what happened last camp with Tannehill was fu&$in BS, she, he, it, was gonna let that kid go back in the freakin draft, can we think about that for a second???, if that doesn't piss you off then I don't know what to tell ya, Ireland nor Philbin had any control, had no veto power over it, and it was all plain to see.

    How do you call a girl a dick..? Cause either gender is one if offset language made Tannehill reenter.
     
  29. toto

    toto Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Do you guys really think they would have let their 1st round pick reenter the draft??? No way. When did that ever happen in the last decade or two. What kind of bad press would that cause in a year they are trying to revamp their image. Come on...

    IMHO that whole "reenter the draft" was never meant to be serious. She was either kind of sarcastic or it was just a Hard Knocks thing. Maybe even scripted to create a little drama on the show.
    And it worked or we would not have this discussion... :shifty:
     
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  30. Mcduffie81

    Mcduffie81 Wildcat Club Member

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    Wow.
     
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  31. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member


    I think it's a pretty simple explanation...she's looking at the 'what if' scenario....If the guy doesn't make it and we end up cutting him not only does that affect the actual cash outflow for the team, which most of us fans could care less about, but it also affects cap at that time... It's still the only 'negotiating' to be done and if they choose to be the leader in this, great. It's in Jordan's best interest, since he's missed all the OTA and minicamps due to the NCAA rule and his injury to be in camp on time anyway. On the other hand, you do expect the #3 overall pick to not have to worry about the offset come his 5th year...
     
  32. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    Yeah, gotta agree with most here, Deej....that was a Hard Knocks ploy, just for ratings. I didn't see that has a serious threat, just negotiating thru Hard Knocks...
     
  33. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Luke Joeckel signed today without the language in, let's see where this goes.
     
  34. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    For Someone To insinuate I wouldn't be pissed about Jordan having to re'enter the draft if it was a guy in the role, is talking out their ***, or just wanting to hear themselves talk.
     
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  35. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think you have a responsibility and commitment to a player when you decide to take him in the draft, if your wanting to cut him in the last year of his rookie deal it means you fu&$ed up on the initial evaluation...take the hit.
     
  36. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I sure didnt get that impression larry when I watched and rewatched the show, Philbin and Ireland look a bit hopeless in those moments..And if true, what the hell does that mean?, what the hell is goin on?

    I'm not saying I know, I'm just going by what it looked like and the whole principle of saying, "yup, were gonna let him re'enter the draft".... I can't tell ya how ridiculous it sounds.
     
  37. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    You're overreacting a touch.

    It was a ploy. There'd be no way in hell they'd let Tanny go back to the draft because fo something so small. Remember, the show was filmed and aired in less than a week. If there was a protracted holdout into the next week, they would have been on TV playing hardball. That's all that was and nothing more. Let's not forget, he signed pretty quick after that anyway. So really no one held out too long and no one was sent back to the draft.
     
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  38. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    so Philbins and Ireland demonstrative reactions was acting?
     
  39. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    I don't buy it. Not their style. Aponte has autonomy in certain aspects, and that is very very encouraging to me.

    Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4 Beta
     
  40. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    so you don't think I'm overreacting, it looked like a real situation yes?
     

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