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Examine the Coachspeak- Dallas Thomas can be a "capable" Offensive Lineman

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by PhinGeneral, Nov 15, 2013.

  1. PhinGeneral

    PhinGeneral PC Texas A&M, Bro Club Member

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    Per Joe Philbin, via Adam Beasley on twitter about an hour ago.

    To me, "capable" sounds like a weak term for someone drafted in the 3rd round. Sounds as if Joe didn't want to commit to saying he can be a good lineman, yet at the same time isn't going to come right out and say the guy sucks Donkey ba**s.

    I'd like to listen to the presser to hear how it came out of his mouth, but it still doesn't seem like much of an endorsement of where Thomas is.
     
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  2. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Given the complexity of the schemes and assignments for every position, they don't play rookies until they have learned a large enough portion of the playbook to the coaches satisfaction. You'd think they'd simply things ala Chip Kelly, to get the talent on the field.

    That said, either these coaches have things too complicated or are too stringent in expectations, they rookies are intellectually struggling to learn assignments, or they just weren't good picks to begin with. I find that hard to believe with Jordan, Taylor, and Davis. I have zero faith in Turner's abilities at this point. Especially with Dallas Thomas and former first round pick Danny Watkins not playing any snaps in a game as bad as this last loss.

    It's irritating to see rookies playing and flourishing on other teams and our guys either are limited in snaps or don't play at all. Given the performances of some of the 2nd and 3rd string vets, I'd rather take my lumps with the rookies this season and get them much needed game experience.
     
  3. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Agree. And this is part of why I am not fully against replacing the coaching staff DURING this season. Especially if we look terrible, flat and disinterested as a team this Sunday.
     
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  4. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Also, a great coach would change the scheme or gameplan to accomodate for the pieces he DOES have and put them in a position to succeed at what they CAN do well.

    Honestly, I think we are victim of a mediocre GM getting us players that are not always great fits or need development...

    PLUS

    A mediocre coaching staff that's no good at coaching them up, or designing their coaching plan to adapt and get the most out of who they have.

    Either one alone, mediocre GM or mediocre Coaching staff, would be fine if the other arm was great... but together you get problems.
     
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  5. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    Yes, and that's what made Don Shula such a great coach. He adapted to the strengths of his players to get them on the field and performing.

    Philbin's coaches are more concerned with the players adapting to the schemes and *****ing about how well they execute.
     
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  6. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I say play the guy..
     
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  7. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Moderator Staff Member Club Member

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    I'll fess up. I was a fan of Dallas Thomas leading up to the draft and was pretty happy when they took him. I thought he was the LG of the future. I wonder if the root of his problems are basic core strength (a concern of his coming from Tennessee that I'm guessing is magnified by the shoulder injury) and the fact that Jim Turner had him taking snaps at every position except center in training camp. This kid was a solid, solid LG at Tennessee; he's not a tackle, left or right, and I don't think at the end of the day he'll ever be that classic road-grading type of RG. He's mobile and can pull well, yet Miami seemed resistant to using him there due to Richie Incognito's presence.

    I think, at the very least, he's in competition for the LG spot in 2014 training camp.
     
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  8. mroz

    mroz Rosen is a franchise QB Club Member

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    I think we all know Dallas is very capable of one thing… that is not being active on Sundays...
     
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  9. PhinGeneral

    PhinGeneral PC Texas A&M, Bro Club Member

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    I'd agree with that, and also agree all the pre-season shuffling the coaching staff put him through probably did little to help get his career off on a good start. I think the second half of the season, even if he doesn't play, will be important for him to show that he can be relied upon to compete for the starting guard position.
     
  10. FanMarino

    FanMarino Season Ticket Holder

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    When a drafted 3rd round Guard can't crack a unit that has been a car wreck it says volumes. Un-freekin-believable.
     
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  11. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I thought he projected to be a solid pro....

    Think about this, we have gotten nothing out of the returner position this year, garbage play...we have a player on our roster who happens to have the best hands on the team, who is physical and strong with pretty good speed, he was also a very good returner in college..his name is Rishard Matthews, you know that guy that we've been clamoring for way before last week to get serious playing time?...If Rishard Matthews told the coaches he doesn't want to return punts or kicks, I can understand, but I don't think that's the case...two misevaluations..one on Thigpen, the other on not recognizing Matthews..kick that dude the ball, he will catch it securely, and he will do somethin with it..
     
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  12. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Moderator Staff Member Club Member

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    Did you see Sherman's quote about Matthews from Tuesday this week, about his being surprised because Matthews has a "sleepy-eyed look" and didn't look like he was paying attention. I mean, if that's really their reasoning for not giving Matthews more playing time...well, I think that just speaks to how out of touch this coaching staff really may be, especially in the wake of the Incognito-Martin ordeal.

    I do recall Matthews being a very good returner at Nevada. Hard to replace Thigpen for me though. He was the only guy in the NFL last year that was top 5 in returning both kicks and punts; I think he's top 6 in both again this year. That said, I think if you can find more value in Thigpen's roster spot by giving it to someone at another position (like a DT better than Isaako Aatui), I'd by all means love to give Matthews a shot.

    Matthews, I think, is going to be a solid player for quite some time in the near future.
     
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  13. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Moderator Staff Member Club Member

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    The question is, is that really due to Dallas Thomas, or is that due to the coaching staff and veterans already in place?
     
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  14. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    That seems to be the case this year, but last year our rookies played a lot more. Tanny and Martin full time, and Vernon, Shelby, and Miller fairly significant amounts of snaps. Our top 3 rookie draft picks this year were all coming off injuries/surgeries that set them back for varying degrees throughout camp. Then rookie #4, Davis, got hurt later in camp and was set back too. That was one thing that struck me watching the '13 draft unfold. Why was Ireland investing so highly in damaged goods rather than guys more ready to contribute? I guess he was looking more long term?
     
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  15. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    I think we overestimate the mental and emotional intelligence of NFL coaches because we admire the sport so much.
     
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  16. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    Maybe that's a reason for the excessively sloppy play- that perhaps a complicated system is making the players spend too much thinking rather than playing. I mean, we're seeing a greater degree of player mental errors out there than we should, which seems out of a place when coached by a guy who's such a stickler on X's & O's and execution. Perhaps he's too much of a stickler and it's leading to mental errors and sloppiness.
     
  17. Phoenician Fan

    Phoenician Fan Well-Known Member

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    Thigpen is nowhere near the top five in KR's or PR's this year.http://www.nfl.com/stats/categoryst...Category=KICK_RETURNS&d-447263-s=KICK_RETURNS
     
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  18. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    That falls on the Staff, not the player, I'd love for someone to say with a straight face that Thomas cannot possibly be an upgrade on the worst Right Tackle in the NFL.
     
  19. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=- Club Member

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    Much in the way that a traffic cone is "capable"
     
  20. FanMarino

    FanMarino Season Ticket Holder

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    Will we find out? That's where the problem lies right now. For all we know we might cut Thomas after this season and find him starting on a decent, playoff bound team. Im getting annoyed with our so called experts drafting players at a decent spot in the draft and not seeing them given a chance to show especially on that O-Line which is the biggest weakness on the team bar none. How can you draft a player high and not get a sniff when that unit is a total shambles? It beggers belief. I won't even go there with Jordan....great upside apparently but has weaknesses according to the limited ability wise coaches that cant utilize him. 9 snaps in the last game? Says everything you need to know about the coaching staff.
     
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  21. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    11th in kickof return...18 th in punt return..

    Edit...better than I thought, but I'm still mad about not signing Trindon Holliday after he was available, right after we played him in a preseason game two years ago..I mean you see the guy live, he tears your *** up, he's available, and you snooze..

    That's frustrating.
     
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  22. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    It means he is not capable now. That's all that needs to be said.
     
  23. FanMarino

    FanMarino Season Ticket Holder

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    Totally agree. If the hype gets put on the player by his drafting position then yes? If that's the case then Ireland should be gone...yesterday. If i hear Dallas Thomas is suddenly opening lanes for his teams running back in 2yrs time then its also on Philbin. I expect the Dolphins coaches to notice talent or is that expecting too much? If our O-Line is so bad then why can't we slide in an ex Eagles Guard with NFL experience or a 3rd rounder with upside? It's becoming blatantly obvious the coaching staff has no confidence in Dallas Thomas to crack a unit that is on a roll to crack the most sacks given up by an NFL O-Line.
     
  24. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Moderator Staff Member Club Member

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    http://miamiherald.typepad.com/spor...-incognito-reaches-out-to-fins-fins-heat.html

    More damning stuff from Barry Jackson. Joe Philbin believes Dallas Thomas will be a capable tackle, not just a lineman, but a tackle. This is wrong. He also says he likes Kevin Coyle's scheme and wouldn't switch back to a 3-4.

    Coach Philbin is worse than I thought.

    As far as Thigpen's return stats, what were they before the Tampa game? I could have sworn ESPN posted a graphic that had him in the top 6 in both.
     
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  25. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    As a whole, ST play has declined this year Deej, pretty much across the board in fact.
     
  26. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    Play the guy, most rookie linemen this year are struggling anyways, they might need another offseason of conditioning to get up to speed.
     
  27. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    I've been saying Matthews is going to be a good player for a while now and I even think he's going to be better than Hartline, not even kidding. He's our most physical receiver that's for sure and I think he also has the best hands in the group. The guy was a very good receiver in Nevada.
     
  28. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    After the Bengal game I posted them, 28 in punt return...15 th in kickoff return.
     
  29. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Last year, PFF rated him 4th in KR, and 12th in PR, 2nd overall.
    This year he is 11th on KR, 13th on PR and 13th overall. He could break a long one anytime and when he does his rating will get better.
    We could do a lot worse than Thiggy. I just wish they'd find a way to work him into the offense on a regular basis.
     
  30. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Moderator Staff Member Club Member

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    Yeesh.
     
  31. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Our PFF rating for STs reflects that too. Last year we finished 7th in ST rating. This year we are currently 30th in their rating system. What is the major difference? I'd say Dave Fipp going to Philly, but they are 27th in ST rating.
     
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  32. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I was thinking the exact same thing. The most important position on a football team in the QB. This coaching staff had no problem starting a rookie QB last year and a rookie RT. Yet all of a sudden this year we are suppose to believe that the coaching staff just wants to give this draft class more time to adjust to playing in the NFL.

    I'm not buying it and I just wish they would come out and state the truth. That being that this draft class isn't very good and that is why they aren't getting much playing time this year. If this team was loaded with talent and they could afford to bring the rookies along slowly, that would make sense. Unfortunately this team isn't loaded with talent and a lot more was needed and expected from this draft class. I don't know what the future holds for any of these players drafted this year, but so far in 2013, this draft class has mostly been missing in action.
     
  33. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    They may be very good. Someday. Ireland chose to use the first 3 picks on players coming off surgery/injury, and they were all limited in mini camps and training camp to varying degrees. He used the 4th pick on a very athletic but relatively inexperienced player who then also got dinged up in camp and missed time. Given those circumstances it is no wonder they have not played much, or at all. Even Jenkins had some injury issues last year as I recall. If Ireland was trying to accumulate rookies with red flags for durability he may have made the best haul in the league. :)
     
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  34. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    The Thigpen return where he had no blockers at all and had a long return exposed this to me.

    Last yr, we blocked FG tries and punts, this yr we are having our FG tries blocked, we had nice returns when needed, this year opponents are having them.

    Unfortunately though, the only place that covers ST is PFF's excellent "third phase" coverage and they have not focused on the Dolphins problems as of yet.

    So not certain what is going on, AFAIK no major changes have been made in key personnel on the unit just the results have plummeted.

    Just from an eyeball pov, our hats are going backwards on our return attempts, meaning they are absorbing the blows, on coverage I'm not seeing our guys knifing through blockers or knocking their hats backwards.
     
  35. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    After Dallas Thomas's name appeared on the screen as our pick, I quickly perused the list of OL that were passed on when making the pick. Honestly, the first thought that crossed my mind was Ireland passed on David Bakhtiari to take Thomas. Well several teams later passed on him, since he went a round later, but if wanted an OL in the 3rd, Bakhtiari was whom I'd have taken.
     
  36. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Moderator Staff Member Club Member

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    Well...that's Jeff Ireland I suppose. I mean, you look at some of the guys they've had come through here on tryouts, or on the team then cut, and things like that. Brandon Browner, Sam Shields, Marcel Reece, Erik Walden, Evan Mathis, Donald Thomas, Samson Satele, etc.

    Not to mention, they've traded away Brandon Marshall and Vontae Davis. There's no overall vision and method behind building the roster. Yeah, they have a young team; so young that they have no leaders.

    Believe me, the day Ireland leaves Miami I'll light up a cigar and drink some fine scotch for padre.
     
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  37. cdz12250

    cdz12250 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Dallas Thomas can be a "capable offensive lineman."

    The expression "damn with faint praise" comes to mind.
     
  38. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    This is as scathing indictment of Ireland's ineptitude as anything. Especially the ones we actually had on the roster and let go. To think we could have Mathis and Don Thomas flanking Pouncey now... or Mathis and Pouncey flanking Satele.
     
  39. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Right now, having 5 OL who are capable would be an upgrade.
     
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  40. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He hasn't improved at all, he's regressed as in he decelerates now...need to find a real returner this offseason.
     

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