I'm not a NFL scout, and nor would I ever presume to pretend to be one, because when it comes to judging whether college talent can make the huge step onto the NFL playing field, often comes down to intangibles that can't be measured with a measuring stick or stop-clock. It's truly a game of inches—as in one inch of separation makes the difference between whether the pass is completed or taken back to the house for a pick six. A micro second of hesitation is the difference between a ten yard gainer, or a drive ending loss. It's a game where the right call against the defense's situational substitutions, can make the difference between a win and loss. Eighty percent of the talent on each team is equal and it's that other twenty percent that makes the difference between playoffs or bottom feeder. Being a General Manager in charge of building and sustaining a winning team is one tough desk of responsibility to sit behind, because it only takes a few bad decisions to condemn your team to a losing record. And it's more than just evaluating talent, its understanding the mindset and chemistry of the team your putting on the field. Bringing in that Diva wide receiver who is suppose to be the missing piece of the puzzle to your—close but no cigar—playoff team, but ends up poisoning your locker room, can destroy your team's season and put an indelible black mark on your resume. When it comes to evaluating Jeff Ireland's job so far as GM of the Dolphins, you have to look deep into his body of work and discern what he has been asked and allowed to do. It's not easy, because Jeff came into the organization with Bill Parcell, under an iron curtain of—we don't talk to the media about football decisions, ever. It's very easy as a 'talking pundit', or a fan—to look back and criticize every failed decision, every player that wound up being bust, every move that kept the Dolphins from reaching the playoffs. We should've drafted Matt Ryan over Jake Long, Parcell and Ireland should've been fired for that lousy Pat White pick—you know—the guy that hit Bill's golf cart more than his WR's, etc. Trading two second rounders for Marshall, and then trading two years later for two thirds. These are the headline grabbing moves that condemn General managers, but do they really tell the story? Do they give us an accurate evaluation of what Ireland's job performance? I don't think so and I'll explain my own measuring stick for what I expect from my GM. It starts with the relationship between the GM and the Head Coach. In my mind, the Head Coach sets the philosophy and blue print of the team, establishing a stable environment for the team, which I believe is the basis of success. It's the GM's job to bring in the right players for the Head Coach to fill those needs, and being able to accept that some of those players will fail, and he can't stay married to their potential that will never be realized. He has to cut his losses, and move on quickly. The second part of that evaluation is how he brings in those players, and specifically how he values that process. I'm a firm believer in a value system—specifically the draft, and I'll explain that. The draft is the main tool in building and maintaining a team, using Free Agency to supplement what value I can't buy in the draft. I'm not going to trade away valuable draft picks to bring in a big name free agent, unless I'm missing just one piece. I firmly believe that your first and second round draft picks need to be players that start immediately. You're third, fourth, and fifth round picks, need to be valuable back-up players, with one or two having the potential to develop into starters within a couple of years, but failing that, they need to be able to step into starting lineup and provide serviceable starts for injured players, and play invaluable but unrecognized roles on your special teams. You're sixth and seventh round picks, are throw always, camp fodder long shots, where you're hoping to have discovered—a diamond in the rough superstar. With that in mind, I'm going to evaluate Ireland's job performance based on some decisions he has made in the last year, using my set guidelines. Ryan Tannehill: Contrary to what the talking pundits say, this is not a make or break pick that will decide Ireland's future. Today's NFL, demands you must have a QB with elite skills to win. That means if you don't have one, you draft one until you get it right. With Chad Henne showing signs that he might not be the answer, Ireland began to look at the class of QB's in 2011 in case Henne proved to be a bust. From his mid round position in the draft, he looked at the class of Ponder, Locker, Gabbert, and decided none of them were worth moving up for, when a rash of a desperation provoked other teams to go crazy. Smart move on his part, because he went on to draft Mike Pouncey, a center who might just end up a Pro Bowler. He then resisted the urge to overpay for Denver's Kyle Orton, eventually bringing in the relatively unknown Matt Moore. Win win for the phins, because while Moore proved to be a stop gap for the QB position for just half a year, but providing them with a valuable back-up in 2012, it bought the team time for Ireland to draft the QB he had his eye on. Make no mistake about this pick, Ireland did not want to draft Tannehill with the number eighth pick of the draft. He saw Ryan as the Flacco he had missed out on in the 2008 draft, a QB he could steal with a second round pick, maybe moving up to the end of the first round to nab him. Had that worked out, and Miami had been able to spend it's first round pick on say Dontari Poe, Quinton Coples, or Bruce Irvin, this would've have turned out to be the draft of the decade for Miami, and cemented Ireland as a draft guru. Instead, Washington changed everything and royally screwed up Ireland's plans. By trading up way before the draft and announcing RG3 would be their pick, the media had lost their preplanned draft hype, because the best stories for the pundits to keep churning out was about who was going to draft which QB. Nobody reads about drafting the best offensive lineman, safety, or pass rusher, its about who drafts which QB and WR. Those are the game changers that add that needed explosiveness on the field and off. With Barkley staying in school, they selected Ryan Tannehill as their target, manufacturing a blitz of mostly uneducated and undeserved hype and linked him to Miami. Ireland was probably very upset his secret plans had been destroyed, especially since a very unique and special situation was developing. Miami hired Joe Philbin and Tannehill's college coach Mike Sherman, with the intention of installing Sherman's innovating take on the west coast offense in Miami. Drafting Tannehill was perfect, and I suspect that despite the seeming nonchalant comments coming from Philbin and Sherman about the kid, they wanted Tannehill, knowing he was the perfect trigger-man for their offense, and would eventually become Miami's long needed franchise QB. Make no mistake, the media tried hard to pressure Miami into making what they though was a very questionable pick, but Miami knew it wasn't a risky pick at. Ireland had just hoped it wouldn't cost them that high pick. Miami pulled the trigger, because I honestly believe there was a consensus between Ireland and Philbin, it was the right pick, and it wasn't choosing between bust or high reward, but choosing the proper value of a QB with enormous upside in the perfect situation and offense against him adapting slowly to the speed in the NFL in time to start immediately to help renergize the fan base. In other words, choosing between the perception of rebuilding or drafting to win now. You can already see they made the right choice, and while I don't think Miami wins a Superbowl this next year or 2014. In year three and four, I would expect Miami to be a serious contender and for many years to come. Contrast that Tannehill pick, with Cleveland's to draft Weeden. Who did the media really force to pick too high and who ended up making the bad and desperate decision there? Nothing against Weeden, but he just turned 29, and realistically, you can only expect him to have about four years of prime vs Tannehill's 8. (I'm using my private franchise QB chart of expectations for a 15 yr player. 4 years to develop, 8 years of prime playing, and then three years of decline.) Ireland gets an A for this pick, because whether Tannehill becomes an elite QB which I think he will, or complete bust (which I totally discount, unless Philbin and Sherman get canned in two years. I think the worst Tannehill becomes is another Joe Flacco or Philip Rivers, two good QB's whose occasional erratic play keeps them from joining the elite realm of Brady, Brees, the Mannings and Rodgers.) Let's examine the rest of the the 2012 roster moves for a minute, with the understanding, Ireland's suddenly been asked to change whose he is buying the groceries for to fulfill completely different systems on offense and defense, while fitting them in with the roster he has already assembled and deciding who can adapt to the new system. Make no mistake, this has been quite the challenge, because for the last three years, Ireland has been putting together a physical team, built to pound the opposing team into submission with a bruising running game, and a defense that stops the run and forces the opposition to pass into the teeth of hard hitting, domination. Instead of bringing in players with bruising strength and fast measurables, his new coach wants football players, with high mental aptitude. Speed and strength is less important, if the player can't understand his role in the team concept. In the West Coast offense, the difference between running and passing becomes blurred. A quick hitting five yard out pass, is the same as a run, and it's expected to be completed eighty percent of the time. The offense makes the defense defend every inch of the field as it rhythmically and methodically marches down to field, taking advantage and exploiting the defense. Metal acumen triumphants the need for speed. Switching the defense from a 3-4 to a 4-3 present the same problem, especially when it comes with an emphasis on cerebral play, as Coyle prefers, being taught by his former DC Zimmerman from Cincinnati with Marvin Lewis' legendary influence. Miami fans were up in arms, and calling for Jeff's head when he traded Brandon Marshall to Chicago for two third round picks. They openly wondered if Ireland had lost his mind, by trading Vonatae Davis, a former first round pick and expected shutdown corner in the mold of Darrell Revis, for a mere second and sixth round pick, but make no mistake, he was just listening and working with Head Coach Philbin to get him the right players for the coaches systems and philosophies. Marshall was a elite talent, but he often negated the value of those skills by being a headcase and terminal cancer in the locker room. Philbin did not want this guy on his team and Ireland complied, getting what he could. While Davis might not have been a cancer, his lack of football aptitude and immaturity on the field, made him more of a liability than an asset. I don't care what Miami fans think, he could and should have become, nothing more illustrates that the staff made the right judgment in this case, than that absolute mind blowing bone-headed play in the preseason, where he blatantly mugged the WR to grab and interception that was rightfully called back for pass inference. Need another example, try the meltdown personal foul against Steve Smith in the Carolina preseason game. Ireland wasted no time in getting rid of him, and while a second from Indy seems low for a first round pick, he got something of value, just like he did with Marshall. Again, I'm giving him an A for both moves, because he was quick to accept neither player had a role in the new system and philosophies and he didn't stubbornly cling to a bad marriage, he listened to his Head Coach. Back to the 2012 draft. After selecting the desperately needed franchise QB. Ireland immediately fulfilled another need at Right tackle with Jonathon Martin. Martin will probably never be an elite right tackle, merely an average one, but that's fine, when you have two all pro's anchoring the rest of your line, and puts Miami above half the other teams in the league. Then he selected Oliver Vernon, a raw, boom or bust defensive lineman to make up for having his early draft plans to draft a PR with his first pick, and Tannehill with a second. We'll see how this works, but Vernon has shown signs, that he may at least develop into a decent outside linebacker—not what he's drafted for, but a pleasant consolation prize. Michael Egnew came next, and this is the pick fans want to crucify Jeff for. Miami needed a WR, and arguably there were some good ones left. It's too early to say whether Egnew is a bust, but I'm still going to dock Ireland for the pick. Need and depth vs a redundant pick, since you have Fasano and Gates on the roster. WR was a must here, and Ireland failed to either understand that or he simply undervalued the prospects left. Lamar Miller was a surprise a choice, and I think he'll eventually turn the B grade I'm going to give Ireland for the draft into and a A. He has the potential to become the one cut RB, Philbin's zone blocking offense requires. The rest of the draft did an adequate job of providing players to add depth to the team, which while unsexy, is just as important to building a roster as bringing in starters. More on that later. So based on potential, Ireland earns a B for his draft, but it could end up going turning into a A+ if Vernon and Miller turn into starters. (I'm already penciling in Tannehill and Martin as long term starters.) Time to examine two other key free agents, Ireland brought in. Richard Marshall a nickel CB who can and probably should play safety and WR Legadu Naance. If he hadn't traded Davis, I believe Marshall would've shored the secondary, providing the passable ball hawker at saftey the team desperately needs. As the second starting CB, I think he's a fail, though I'm cognizant to the fact, new DC Coyle, really likes him and wanted him. I grade that as worth of C, recognizing again, that Ireland is working with the coaching staff, to get them what they want. Naance was the WR most fans see as a cheap replacement for Marshall, but I'm not judging this move by that. The WC offense doesn't need a #1 dominant WR, it needs three or four wide receivers that can work in the framework of the offense and compliment each others skills. It's suppose to be a pick your poison situation, and Ireland knows he has two of the roles filled in Hartline and Bess. In that sense, Naance is nice pick cheap pick-up, because you have to remember Jeff doesn't have much Salary cap room to work with. He also has a couple of other young WR's stashed on the roster, he was hoping could develop into those roles. It didn't work out, but it's not the fail most fan's think it is, it was a comprise reinforced by the belief he had some hidden talent on the roster. Miami could not have traded a first or second for Pittsburgh's Wallace, because there was no way to fit him under the salary cap. He get's a C for effort here. I said that I'm a big believer in not only bringing in players to be starters, but bringing in players to fill the bottom part of the roster to develop into substitute starters, and specialized roles. This is probably where I'm the most critical of Ireland, and I'll admit its a difference of philosophy than the one popular in the NFL today. While, continuously churning the bottom of your roster to keep providing competition for your team is understandable, I still abhor it. If your GM's doing his job well, than, he already has the best players on the roster, that are out there. Bringing in a new player in the middle of the season, disrupts the chemistry of the team, and it throws away that crucial development from bottom feeder of the roster to key contributor—with the possibility to take over a starting role, due to injury. Why stock the roster with players your not confident in to develop? I understand, that every once in awhile a player might fall off another team's roster that you have put a higher value on, but rarely does that player ever work out. Use the off season, to jettison failed projects instead of hurting your team chemistry. And quite honestly, I strongly feel that Ireland's roster churning has weakened the depth of the team over the last two years. I'm giving a D. You really can't end your evaluation of Jeff Ireland, without discussing the Pat White pick. There has been numerous debates and rumors on whose pick this was, but I'm putting it on Ireland. However, I'm not criticizing him for picking an obvious bad choice for a future QB, I'm looking at what Miami was trying to do at the time, despite trying to turn a gimmick into an innovating offensive philosphy—yes—I'm talking about the Wildcat. It was bad thinking on Sparano's part, and probably ruined Henne's chances here, as well as terminating his own job. But I'll give Ireland credit. Sparano needed a trigger-man, and Pat White looked to be a promising choice. The experiment failed as it was foreordained to do so, but Jeff tried to provide his head coach with the tool he needed and he gets credit for the attempt. It is a perfect example of the criteria I set forth in my evaluation. The biggest question and the one I give the most weight to in writing Jeff Ireland's evaluation as General Manager of the Miami Dolphins, is the ability to understand and provide the players to fit the Coaching staff's philosophy and systems, and this year has the most emphasis, because it answers the question at the heart of the matter. Ireland grew up under the thumb of Bill Parcell, starting in Dallas and ending in Miami. Could he adapt to a different blueprint on how to build a team, ignoring the rock- hard guidelines his mentor had laid down? And the answer is—yes—he seems to have adapted and embraced the Coaching Staff's, showing a willingness to work with them, even though he could well end up losing his job, if they are wrong. I give him a B right now overall, and another year to continue in his role. I will be critically watching the 2013 draft and free agency period to see if can continue to deliver, thinking if he fails—I will reluctantly join the masses of fans calling on Steve ross to replace him immediately. I believe Philbin and his staff have the right ideas and philosphy to win in today's NFL, and I will not accept the outdated Parcell's to return.
I agree with a lot of it, but I think you're going to put a tremendous amount of effort into that relative to the response.
However, that's precisely what enables you to determine whom to put on your ignore list, and then things become a bit more streamlined.
Good read...nothing to comment really, but I appreciate the write up. Just have to see how it shakes out. This next offseason is so so so huge for this team / fan base. Hope he gets it right...
Appreciate your thoughts.. How strong do you feel that he did'nt want to select Ryan him at 8?.. This is only my way of evaluating at the end of the season....At this point it's about players passed up as much as it is players aquired, which to me bases everything on Tannehill, There are three potential stars that should of had serious consideration by us..RG..Kaepernick..Russell Wilson..Kap and Wilson would of presented incredible value to an organization, and were seemingly and mistakenly overlooked by him and many others...There were many reports that we had interest in Kap, but nothing, we showed no conviction to move up for RG, And, not having the eye to spot a hidden gem in Wilson and creating incredible value for your franchise...Those things are bothersome to me when it comes to his one job that he needs to get right. Taking his last two drafts and free agency periods are my other vehicles to evaluate...If Tannehill doesn't become a star, the other acquisitions and draft picks do not seem to be strong enough to carry him thru, that's why I say his fate has come down to one player..and whatever Philbins endorsement is.
The only half-assed comments I see in this thread are yours and others predicting half-assed comments that don't exist. Whether I agree or not, the OP put a lot of work into his thoughts and I appreciate it. I can appreciate dissenting opinions without labeling them as rants or other such nonsense like some tend to do on this board when opinions don't line up with their own.
I think it is speculation that Ireland didn't want to take Kaepernick at 8. I think it is based on the logical assumption that we'd have preferred to get him in the 2nd, but I don't know of any actual evidence of it. As I have said previously, I don't think there is much basis for criticism for not getting RG3. Washington had better picks to offer and the difference in value between what they had and what the Dolphins had was roughly equal to the entire set of Dolphins 2012 draft picks or an additional first round pick (or maybe even 2 since ti would be so far into the future). That is a huge difference and I'm not even sure if that kind of offer would have gotten the deal done. Among the concerns about RG3 were durability due to his size and style of play and there are some indications, albeit early and inconclusive, that those concerns may be warranted, so while RG3 is a great talent and has been great this year, trading an etire draft plus 2 additional first round picks (or maybe 4 first round picks) is a huge price for an unproven player with durability concerns. Wilson was my favorite QB in last year's draft. I wouldn't have taken him at No. 1 or 2 overall because he wasn't expected to go anywhere near that high and Luck and RG3 were also such great prospects. In another situation, I would have taken Wilson over Tannehill, with that "other situation" being one where Philbin wasn't my HC and Sherman the OC. But as apatos explains, the relationship between the HC and GM is important and the GM's role is to find the players that suit what the HC wants to do. If Sherman and Philbin were sure Tannehill was the right guy for what they wanted to do, then in light of Sherman's relationship and history with Tannehill taking Tannehill was the right thing for Ireland to do. It would have been absurd if Sherman and Philbin were pounding the table begging for Tannehill for Ireland to have ignored them and taken Wilson. It might have turned out to be a good decision in the long run (only time will tell), but that would have been Ireland sticking his thumb in the eye of the new HC for whom he is buying the groceries. Kaepernick is a slightly different situation, but might be justified on similar grounds. At that time, Ireland was shopping for Sparano and Daboll. On its face, Kaepernick would seem to be a pretty good fit for them, but I don't know what they thought of him (nor do i know what Ireland thought of him). It may be that Sparano and/or Daboll did not like Kaepernick at all, in which case it would have been silly for Ireland to draft him in the first round knowing that the HC/OC don't like him and don't want him.
at first i didn't read your post, i just scrolled down to see which guys fist bumped you...when i saw the usual suspects from the ISG (Ireland Support Group), i was able to decipher if you were pro or anti Ireland rather quickly. but then i actually did read your post...you make some good points, but i think the main difference between me and you is i don't grade draft picks by potential, i grade them by impact and production. and just because you draft a guy and start him right away doesn't mean its a good pick, not if he's not playing well, which is the case with Jon Martin. and also, just because you draft a player doesn't mean you have now filled that need, you won't know that until you see how they perform on the field. we all thought we filled our need for a pass rusher when we took Misi, our need for a deep threat WR when we took Gates, our need for a franchise QB when we took Henne, and on and on and on... it seems you're trying to deflect blame from the GM and direct it more towards the head coach as if the latter is the one who's really in charge. i mean seriously...Ireland gets "credit" for pat white because he was attempting to provide Sparano with what Tony THOUGHT his offense needed? Well Jeffy your pick was a complete failure...but hey, kudos for trying!!!!! lol what is this kindergarten?
This evaluation would be more complete, if it also had the previous couple of years of drafts and free agents. I say this because while i agree with some of the points, I also have to point out that your given grade both for the drafted players and the free agents are very contingent on future production, not actual production. So while you and many project good returns from the draft picks, and better than shown return from Marshal at safety, the opposite could also be true, and disaster for Ireland.
The past years are implied. He's saying the biggest indicator of a GM is getting the players that fit his coach and coach's philosophy. The thing to remember is that the coach answered to Parcells not Ireland. There is no legitimate argument to be made that Ireland was bad at getting players Parcells wanted. Last year, there was no Parcells or clear offensive philosophy. Without a target to aim for, Ireland was more scattershot. This year, its obviously different. He got players that Philbin wanted, mostly. I think there needed to be a season to understand what Philbin truly wants. I have full confidence that Ireland hits big next off season cause I think he got a triple this past off season and he really knows what a Philbin looks like now.
You can include me as part of the "I don't consider myself grandiose enough to know what's going on either way" group, which means I'm all for well-reasoned analysis that appears to be neither scapegoating nor uncritical praise.
Well if we agree that Ireland is getting player for his coaches blueprint, that is 2012 got players for Philbin style and 2010 and 2011 got players for Sparano style, then i think we can so far arrive at the conclusion that while Ireland has not been bad at getting talent that fit a certain blueprint, he has also not been great. So merely average. He may yet improve on that, certainly and hopefully, but i think it would be equally inaccurate to celebrate his recent success, as it has been to over-criticize his perceived ineptitude.
To me it's pretty obvious, that Philbin has a system, and his philosophy is that no one player is above that system. Unfortunately, most of the players on the team, were brought into fit a different style of football. I've watched every game, so far, at its pretty obvious when watching the offense, they are out of harmony on the field. It's a mixed marriage, so to speak. I'd agree, the fins lack playmakers, but they are really missing WR's who smart, and work back to help out their QB, like you see in GB and NO. We don't need a Megatron, as much as we need 2 or 3 WR's who con come in and immediately understand their roles in the offense. It's hard to say Ireland has failed to bring in playmakers, when the team was built to run over people, and stop the run. Power football doesn't place a priority on WR's. So, I agree, this is the year and draft, we'll find out if Ireland can buy the right groceries...
i disagree. I think he got players for Parcells blueprint, I think Sparano coached on Parcells blueprint and i think Parcells blueprint is ****. That's why I think we weren't very good. I think this year, we have many players to get to be a Philbin blueprint, because we have so many Parcells type still.
I feel very strongly, Ireland wanted Tannehill in the late first round, that he had a plan to move back up and take him. But the demand for QB's and resulting media hype, forced him to spend his pick at #8. Look at Cleveland this year. Nothing against Weeden, but why spend your late first rounder on him, when you could have taken him with your second? You say C-Pak, and he was a QB, I was high on in that draft. But, honestly he went too high, as did Ponder, Gabbert and Blaine. And say what you want, but C-Pak still has much to prove yet. I don't wish him to fail, just because we didn't draft him, but the Vick model of QB, that Newton, RG3, and C-pak are emulating scares me a little. They take alot of abuse, as if a Qb doesn't take enough hits, just standing in the pocket. But I totally disagree, that Tannehill is a make or break pick. If he failed spectacuarly this season, then you draft enough another one, and you could always resign M Moore, or even trade Seattle for Flynn. Tannehill isn't a bust anyway, I don't think anyone really believes that, its just that for most of the season, he's been simply mediocre for a starting QB. He hasn't made too many mistakes, in fact, I think Russell and Luck, have made tons more bad decisions, and showed clear moments of being a bamboozled rookie, than Tannehill. But they have made up for it with some spectacular plays, gunslinger--free lancing plays. I don't think Tannehill feels free to try that, he's being trained to stay in the sytem, take what you can, and don't do anything stupid, which while not exciting, is smart development for him and this future. Mostly, what I see from Tannehill, is QB struggling in the first year of a west coast offense, trying to execute that system, the way Sherman and Philbin want. It's unfair to him, to judge him against Russell and RG3, two QB's who have had the offense dummied down, and taylor made to fit their strengths. Of course they're lighting it up, but we'll see what happens in years 2 or 3. Tannehill understands what the offense is designed to do, and trys to stay in the perimeter of that expectation. It's only in the last few games, you see him start to think, hey it's a busted play, but I can run, or...we need this, and I'm going to try and make that happen. I could be wrong, and I'll gladly eat my words here...but give Tannehill a year or two, and it he'll start looking more like Aaron Rodgers, than Henne. And as far as Russel goes...I can't blame Ireland for not taking the chance on him, after whiffing on the Pat White pick.
It's not****, just outdated. Besides, Parcells only won, because someone else did a great job of buying the groceries for those Giant's teams. Also, in hindsight, I think Bellicheat had a lot to do with it.
For all intents and purposes, if its outdated, its **** in the NFL, because it just doesn't work anymore. But yeah, Parcells talent evaluation is far from good.
Well that's sucks man.. The only time I will include a potential injury risk into a players evaluation is if I question the athletes body and frame..RG is genetically strong and well built..to dismiss a great player because of it is not something I agree with.. I guess it's pretty obvious the reason they didn't make a play for RG and Wilson is because everyone in the building was sold on Tannehill and the benefits of scheme familiarity...do I agree with them, no I do not..I would of made moves for both( like you for Wilson)...the game is to pick the best players creating the best value for your franchise...He has to be right in this case on Tannehills ceiling, Wilson, Kap and RG Were too good, and too available,for them to not be thought of very seriously. Kaepernick, there was just no excuse imo, we wanted a mobile freakin Qb, who could pass...he was ideal, with a very high ceiling and skillset, and had tremendous value because of people sleeping on him and his delivery..He should of been a dolphin, Three freakin stars within our grasp, us, the Miami dolphins,our situation for the past 2 decades,and they couldn't identify them and make a play..Like I said, RT better be real good.. I guess we have to give him the year huh?
Armando is reporting that he was told that Parcells let Ireland make the draft in 2009, didnt like it, so he did the the 2010.
I'm not saying RG was or should have been "dismissed" at all. But the price for him (presumably at least our entire 2012 draft plus two additional first rounders or maybe 4 total first rounders) would have been absolutely unprecedented in NFL draft history. At that price, a guy with a style that can and usually does lead to injuries is a major concern. And again, the value for RG shouldn't be viewed in isolation -- it should be viewed relative to what they felt the value on Tannehill was. We know they had a very high value on Tannehill and a very high confidence level in him. For Ireland to have said to Sherman and Philbin "Look, I understand that you have been coaching offense in the NFL for a long time, [looking at Sherman] have coached an HOF QB (Favre), recruited this Tannehill kid and have worked with him very closely for 4 years and strongly believe he will be a franchise QB, but I know better and like this Griffin guy so much better that I am going to give up our entire draft this year plus our first round picks for the following 2-3 years to trade up to get RG. . . . I know he's not the guy you want, but deal with it." would have been ridiculous. I am sure Wilson, RG and Kaepernick (in 2011) were all seriously considered. I understand that you say now that you don't agree, but if you were in Ireland's shoes would you have really said something like: "Look, I understand that you have been coaching offense in the NFL for a long time, [looking at Sherman] have coached an HOF QB (Favre), recruited this Tannehill kid and have worked with him very closely for 4 years and strongly believe he will be a franchise QB, but I know better and like [Griffin/Russell/______] so much better that I am going to take him instead. . . . I know he's not the guy you want, but deal with it." I know you loved Kaepernick. I liked him too. But let's not pretend there were no questions about him and that he was some kind of sure thing. The Dolphins were picking at 15. Kaepernick went 36th. I don't recall a single pundit, draftnik, etc. saying Kaepernick would or should go as high as 15. Yeah, you gotta give him the year. Tannehill has a semi-reasonable shot at getting his rating over 80, his yards over 3500, his completion percentage over 60%, his TD/INT ratio over 1 and his team to 8-8. He has a semi-reasonable shot at having a higher passer rating than Luck, the same record as RG and within a game of the records Luck and Russell's teams finish with. If he does that, or comes close, I don't see why there'd be any real reason to criticize or question the Tannehill pick.
I meant Ireland on that last point Fineas, not Tannehill.. I hear what your saying, but.. If your asking me to put myself completely in that situation..first of all, I can't get bullied about my convictions, if I believe that I have 3 stars on the table at the most important position,on my watch, I'm going to create strategies that try to aquire those players, after all I am the GM...my message to the staff is I'm going to identify the qbs ceilings and we'll sit down and talk about what's best for the teams big picture, and how to maximize our assets.. If my new coach and coordinator tell me that there is another star that I should keep in mind, I will, but I cannot lower my standards on that position, once I'm sold on the players ceiling, I can't compromise if the player I'm being pitched isn't as good as the others I have identified.. Now your saying that the mentality from Sherman/Philbin for not wanting to get RG, is because they felt good about a Qb that they were familiar with, and that we could get him and keep our draft picks?, well, that is a very hard stance to go against considering the variables involved with Sherman and the scheme..so lets hold up on that decision for a second.. The real dynamic GM move in this years draft was to identify and project one Russell Wilson, and or Kaepernick from last year.why, because imo, they projected as well as any top ten draft pick, that could of been gotten without spending such..I would think that's the golden nugget for a Gm, franchise QB without spending a top ten pick..Well, we were in two instances where that could of happened, but we didnt, because our GM is making decisions based on exterior circumstances, not necessarily based on his own conviction...now if he was on board with his new coach and the whole package, I can see that being an attractive safe position, but if Tannehill falls short of these players, it would be a three fold mistake... You ask the question how could he overrule such favorable variables on Tannhill, how could he disagree with what his new coach/coordinator were suggesting..it's a very tough call Fineas, but Philbin did not coach Tannehill, The Gm has to make the call on the most important position, if your the GM you can't assume because the coach coached the player he understands talent evaluation better than your own conviction.. I know you loved Wilson like me, to me the value was him, he was the guy, RG I would of made an offer, but Wilson was the steal of the draft that we identified..I'm gonna tell the coaches that I will meet your Tannehill presentation, and raise you a Russell Wilson steal, alongside adding a # 1 draft pick for another position.. Either our Gm got bullied into going against his conviction, or he loved Tannehill...stress the word "loved" cause if its like for one Qb, and love another, you go with your love, and fu&$ everyone else.
You call them Ireland supporters, I call them plain old dolphin fans tired of the childish nonsense. The group of people constantly bashing the gm are recognized as a smaller, much more abnoxious group that really never contribute anything to these forums anyway.
You call them plain ole fans. I liken them to Jets fan, hoping Mark Sanchez and Rex Ryan come back for another season. Hell, there's a stronger argument for Sanchez and Ryan! They've seen a couple of playoff wins!
Heard I missed a great game Sunday night.... So looked up the stats. Wow what a barn burner ! No, sorry, your preschool class is next door though. "lolsies"
I'm neutral on Jeff Ireland. There are some moves I do like (drafting of Tannehill, Pouncey, and Miller, signing of Dansby, Burnett, and Bush). There are some moves I don't like (Nanee, Colombo). I just don't know how to feel about the guy.
IMO when looking at his total body of work in Miami and compare it to what other GMs have accomplished, at best I would give him a C+ and at worst Ild give him a C-. His approach has been fairly conservative and the results from it have been mediocre. It seems like for every two steps forward he has taken the team he has also turned around and taken the team 1 1/2 steps backwards. It has been a painfully slow progression. I think looking back at the 2007 roster its fair to say he took on an uphill battle from the get go. He had a lot of holes to fill and little resources to work with to fill them. I do think we have moved foward since 07 but I also dont think it was very difficult to improve on that roster. The question for me is this. As this teams baseline of talent improves, where will his skills plateau off at and instead of adding to it, will he simply maintain the status quo. I cant tell if we have already reached his ceiling or not, if we have then its not good enough to me.
I don't believe that... in fact I believe that as much as I believe Nick Saban saying how Drew Brees was his first choice.
Really ? Who ? Hartline and his 2 TD passes ? All those INTs by our defense ? To me only playmakers are Wake and potentially Bush (who has seen his better days). All others are role players and many of our starters would be backups on other teams.
Maybe we could all compromise and just say; Ireland is not as bad or hasn't done as bad of a job as the Ireland detractors insist he has, and, Ireland is not as good or hasn't done as good of a job as Ireland supporters insist he has. I have been some times overly critical of Ireland I admit but I also realize he inherited a very big job, a very tough job because of the mess that has been festering over many years. Parcell's didn't accomplish what he was brought in to do and left when he realized things were going to go downhill from his initial season. The foundation Ireland was supposed to have inherited from Parcell's and build on just wasn't there. Ireland would have had to have a great draft every year to be where we would all like to be at this point. They haven't been great but good to mediocre is still better than what we have had over the years and I can credit him for that. He has made mistakes but any GM is going to make them at times, its just a matter of how many, how big, and how well he recovers from them? I will cut him some slack but will the Ireland supporters and detractors cut each other some slack?