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End of Season Thread

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Destroyer, Dec 16, 2018.

  1. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Would love it it they to try to get Bridgewater and maybe draft a guy to groom. Best possible option for the team.
     
  2. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Miami's best possible option is a quarterback who hasn't played in 3 years?
     
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  3. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Of realistic options, yes, and that really says something doesn't it?
     
  4. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Let’s just dream for a bit shall we..If Ryan had the situational awareness to convert 2 first downs a game with his legs we would t be having this conversation.

    Hell, if he converted one per game we’d be much better statistically..

    But he doesn’t, and that what we can analyze without looking at all the other variables you mentioned..

    Your going to be a poor Qb, a poor third down team if you offer nothing off script, unless your Peyton Manning or Tom Brady.
     
  5. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He’s not an above average qb, maybe if he used his legs correctly and smartly maybe so, but he doesn’t..
     
  6. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    This is basically the difference between Tannehill and Mahomes. Physically they have similar gifts, but Mahomes is making those 3 or 4 off script plays a game that turn negative plays into positive plays.

    And it all comes down to decision making in chaos.
     
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  7. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Again with the scrambling. How many first downs does Brady get with his feet? Brees?. It's nice if you have the skill but it's not necessary. Nice way to avoid the post though
     
  8. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    And there’s no throwing darts here, it’s not gonna be that hard..time to move on
     
  9. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I disagree, there are many large discrepancies
     
  10. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    All qbs deal with those things, when it comes to Ryan’s oline, he deals with it more, however I gave you the solution of something he could control and do all by himself, and he wouldnt be the worst in football on third down if he did..
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2018
  11. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    Watching the Reskins/Titans right now. Did you see Josh Johnson, QB Redskins, handle that Titan blitz? It was a thing of beauty. You can see him actually look left and spot the blitz and then roll right to hit his WR with a perfect throw. Not sure what is wrong with Tannehill, but it looks like he is playing with blinders on sometimes. Let me just say, that if it was Tannehill in that situation, it probably would have resulted in a sack. Not trying to be mean, but yes, IMO there is something missing and it is hurting the team. Note: I realize that Tannehill will probably be our starting QB next year. I hope he can improve on these type of things this off-season, if so.
     
  12. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Folks want to disregard what I’m saying, and that’s fine, however, Ryan Tannehill is not a good enough pocket quarterback,to be a pocket quarterback, to be a good pocket quarterback you must be able to navigate through the trash With anticipation, peripheral vision, and very good footwork.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2018
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  13. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    We're not disregarding it....we're just asking why he's so incredibly bad at that stuff. Is it poor vision/hearing? It is horrible footwork (I'd say no since his feet aren't moving at all). He just seems lost outside of taking the drop and throwing the football....both of which he does as well as anyone. Force the slightest change in that process though and he just can't react fast enough.

    Again....the question is not if those are problems....we know darn well they are. The real question is WHY?!? And it's important to answer that question because if it's awareness or something mental then there's almost zero chance he ever overcomes it.

    I'm still a huge Ryan Tannehill fan and that won't change if he wins SB MVP or washes out of the league. This isn't about how good/bad he is....I'd just love the deeper reasons why.
     
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  14. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    For as long as I've been advocating finding a different QB (since 2014 basically) there's never been a question for me about "why" Tannehill has bad pocket presence. It's the same reason certain musicians, dancers, entertainers, public speakers etc.. can perform something scripted very well but have absolutely no ability to improvise. In colloquial terms.. some brains are just wired differently.

    Dude.. he CANNOT learn this. Whatever you think of Tannehill, don't believe he'll someday learn to improvise. There's nothing wrong with his vision or hearing per se (that we know of) or anything else physically. It's his brain.
     
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  15. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    lol key I’ve been explaining it in my own words at least, for years..

    The brain does not process fast enough after the snap..

    The lateral agility in the lower half is below average..

    Does not have HD vision of the field.

    Does not anticipate nor see where the line in front of him is breaking down...some qbs can multitask here and use their peripheral vision to see what’s breaking down, continue to keep eyes downfield, and maneuver if they need to to reset platform..Ryan cannot do these tasks at once.

    He’s a strict script qb..who lacks instincts and feel for the position.

    Give him a clean pocket, and one or two reads, and he will shred you, because of his arm talent and innate accuracy...but that’s it..there’s nothing else on the bone.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2018
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  16. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Some Folks think I talk about him running on his own accord to much, and that’s because they are taking it in a literal sense, what I’m doing is waiting to see the football intellect kick in, and when you never see it, it’s an indictment on the overall skillset, and that sucks when your talking about your favorite teams most important position..Folks tell me it’s no big deal that he doesn’t run on his own, I think to myself, that’s because he doesn’t know how to win..
     
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  17. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    You can't have pocket presence if there is no pocket. This pocket presence foot fetish that is constantly pounded by Tannehill detractors is the most overblown and misanalyzed gripe with his game and it's grown into pure insanity at this point. You will notice that no one brings up specific plays even though it should be rather easy since he's so terrible. I mean his pocket presence is so poor we should get five to ten examples of plays every game. But no we never get them because the real numbers of plays where Tannehill could have done something different number around two or three which is about the same number as the best pocket passers brady, brees, rivers, etc....no one is perfect.

    People write he has no pocket presence when the plays he gets sacked are inescapable jailbreak for the most part. We have the 31st ranked offensive line according to PFF, receivers that have a hard time getting separation and running backs, tight ends that have trouble blocking, yet the blame goes to tannehill who happens to be playing on a bum ankle and with a sore shoulder. It's insanity at this point and a complete misevaluation of what is going on.

    PFF analyzed the game and blamed Tannehill for one sack. I watched the nine sacks and I saw two. Yet somehow it's Tannehill that's at fault for all nine. You have people now saying he can't see blitzes. If you can see it coming he can see it coming. You're not that smart and He's not that dumb. People are inventing reasons now, he can't read the blitz, he can't read the mike, he makes poor line calls, He's not audibling to the correct play. Do they have secret access to Miami's playbook? Can they hear the audible. No they have gleemed this amazing insight by watching, not the coaches angle, but the network version of the game on tv.

    The reality is you don't really analyze QBs for production when the pieces are so poor around him. You project how he would perform with an average supporting cast instead. Now He's been here long enough that we finally got to see how he performs with average talent around him. 2016 and the beginning of 2018. There was no problem with pocket presence during that time period and he played like a top ten QB. Why because his offensive line was average and when you get an average line you get a pocket and when Tannehill gets a pocket his presence allows him to successfully drive our offense.
    But Tannehill is the only QB I have ever seen who's play got worse while he was rehabbing according to certain posters here. In 2016 he was breaking out. By 2018 he was a bum again. All this before he threw a pass lol.

    Bottom line is he will start next year with a relatively healthy offense and what should be at worse an average offensive line, not 31st but maybe 20th ranked. And while that health maintains we will win because that's what we do under Tannehill when we just have average pieces around him. And if we can stay healthy for a full season we are a playoff team and not a one and done. But until then enough with the nonsense. We got slaughtered by injuries. No one is to blame other than the football gods. If you know how to fire the football gods please do but blaming Tannehill and Gase for the poor performance of third stringers is ridiculous
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2018
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  18. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Seriously.. not sure what you're seeing. I see Tannehill WAY too often just stand there and let the pressure come to him. Sometimes it results in a sack, sometimes he has less time than he otherwise would. The guy also doesn't throw the ball away when pressured as often as he should. And this gripe about people not listing 5-10 plays per game is really meaningless given that almost none of us review every single play after a game to count how many times it looks like he made the wrong decision in the pocket. Watching him for 6 years is sufficient (for me and apparently many others) to see he has below average pocket presence.
    If you're going to give credence to PFF rankings, then give credence to their QB rankings as well. PFF ranks Tannehill near the very bottom among starting QB's.
     
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  19. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You make good points about the team THIS year, but this is a tannehill discussion about his ability to deal with pressure as a qb..I wasn’t bashing Gase, we all understand the injuries, they’re a legit excuse.
     
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  20. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Ahh GIGO. Your analysis is garbage because you are analysing him in front of one of the worst offensive lines in football and you are unable or unwilling to adjust for it. Apparently since 2014 since you keep touting that year like a badge of honor. You spout watching him for 7 years yet he only had a decent line for half of 2016 and the first couple of weeks this year.

    Now rather than build a line you want him gone. As if the next QB won't need one. Well unfortunately for you we will have a healthy offensive line next year at least to start the year and when we do Tannehill will play well because his pocket presence is pretty good when there is an actual pocket around him.
     
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  21. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    The kind of pressure I want to see him deal with is the kind of pressure you want to see him deal with......in the playoffs but with enough weapons that before the game starts we have at least a 40 percent chance to win. Doesn't have to be 50 but close enough that he gets a fair shot. I'm confident He'll nail it. You have your doubts. Fair enough. But I wouldn't base your doubts on the cluster**** situations He's had to endure as a dolphin to this point. People keep saying 7 years but the Philbin years were a disaster that had the guy learn the game behind a swiss cheese line every stinking year. It's only under Gase that Tannehill started getting the pieces to succeed. Lets see what happens next year when we start the season fully healthy again. I am pretty sure we are all going to be happy
     
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  22. Drizzy

    Drizzy Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Tannehill probably won’t even be here next year.
     
  23. Drizzy

    Drizzy Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Why? There’s nothing special about him, on or off the field. How does he warrant this level of affection from any Dolphins fan?
     
  24. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Dude.. you've repeatedly and consistently demonstrated you don't understand what GIGO means. I suggest you stop using it. Acting like everyone should be seeing the same thing you do using the SAME data (i.e., what we see in games) does NOT suggest anyone who sees something different is basing their analysis on "bad input data". You act like you're the ONLY person who can somehow accurately estimate the effect of the OL. Guess what? You can't. Neither can PFF (which is generally lacking in credibility) nor can any of us.

    So, disclaimer: those of us saying Tannehill is overall average and has well below average pocket presence and needs to go for the good of this franchise are taking the OL into account as much as we're capable of.
     
  25. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    So true.Its an instinct that can't be taught.
     
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  26. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    To add to that, ANY quarterback can look great behind a line that consistently gives them 4-5 seconds to throw. Creating that line is a heck of a lot less realistic than finding a QB that can handle pressure.

    As I've said many times, I am a fan of RT and I continue to hope he someday "gets it." I just don't think he ever will to the level we'd need without a pro-bowl level line in front of him. That doesn't mean he can't win 8-10 games per season for us with speedy receivers on quick throws.....but we won't make it far in the playoffs unless he finds a different level.
     
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  27. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    Wow! Great discussion on this everyone!! Nice!!
     
  28. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    Once again GIGO, you don't understand the point. Analyzing his pocket presence when He's facing jailbreak pass rushes is useless. If you think there is a QB out there who can function when two or more pass rushers are free and clear of their blockers right off the snap then you are living in fantasy land. This is arguably the worst Iine in football. We can cover it up with lesser defenses but when we are faced with top ten defenses like the vikings we are going to fall apart. Jacksonville and Buffalo are going to give us fits on the oline. Not because of Gase or Tannehill but because we are outmatched physically.

    And anyone who thinks a team is going to the superbowl with a line as bad as ours if only they had a different QB is delusional. You aren't going anywhere. Evaluating a QB in jailbreak scenarios is like evaluating hail marys. You might as well say we should cut this QB because he throws a poor hail mary. Expecting to get into a SuperBowl on the back of a good hail Mary is equivalent of expecting to get into the super bowl behind this quality line
     
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  29. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Prez it was all there to see today, you simply cannot move forward with the quarterback that offers you zero ability to go off the script..

    When pressure is coming and your instinct is to go backwards you have some instinctual issues..
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2018
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  30. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Anti-Homer

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    Seriously ..... as the season wore on it has become so obvious that the QB this coach loves going to bat for is someone he can't go off-script with.
     
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  31. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores & Team Tua

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    Is it that Gase likes Tannehill or like all coaches, is he programed to work with what he's got? I think a guy like Bridgewater might be a better fit for him and his system.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2018
  32. adamprez2003

    adamprez2003 Senior Member

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    We just view the game differently. The game went how I expected. You can see my previous post that I predicted the Jags and Bills are going to give this oline fits. I didn't really see receivers open. Now I know you want a QB who is going to scramble around in those situations. But I don't see how a QB with a bum ankle is going to avoid pass rushers that break free. My problem on those sacks was that he didn't throw it away not that he didn't scramble
     
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  33. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    Like I said.. don't know what you're seeing. Way too often Tannehill allows pressure to develop when another QB would just take a step to get away from it. And we're looking at all his snaps, not just snaps where most agree there's nothing the QB could do. You just can't accept that other people can see the same data differently. For you, disagreeing => looking at the wrong data.

    Would love to see you at least acknowledge the SAME data (in this case film) could be interpreted the way we're interpreting it.
     
  34. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Ok, you wanna stick with tannehill as the guy to lead us to a championship..alright man
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2018
  35. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Yes.
     
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