Wilson also had an offense that did its best to mitigate the disaster by running more playaction passes and more rollouts than any team in the league.
Yes. But he faced more pressure on his traditional dropbacks. I'm just addressing that argument. That Tanny faced more pressure (he didn't), faster (not always true), with more defenders (not true). You won't get an argument from me Philbin was a bad coach. I thought he was bad news from the first episode of Hard Knocks.
They measure time to pressure, defenders per pressure, and number of pressures. If you are arguing Wilson scrambled with no pressure and then induced the pressure himself, well offer up your proof.
I'm telling you that hypothetical has 0% relevance here in regards to Tanny vs a Wilson. I don't care about your hypothetical because it's fantasy land. Qb x and QB y here, Wilson and Tannehill, have similar numbers with Wilsons being slightly worse. So fine, I see what you are trying to illustrate with your la la land example. I'm the real world, Wilson had it worse.
But he posted a negative grade when faced with pressure from traditional dropbacks with a traditional rush.
It's not lala land. It's explaining to you, in terms I thought you'd understand, that the numbers don't necessarily show what you thought they did. I know it craps on your big grand point, but that doesn't mean it's a fantasy either.
Your stats don't address whether the pressure was in the pocket or out, so you're not proving what you say you are. Wilson is a nightmare for his line because of his scrambling, and that's talked about all the time. I've already referenced the stat that said that Wilson was responsible for more sacks than any other QB, and it wasn't even close. Tell me, how is he responsible for them. Nevermind, I already know: it's because he leaves the picket and creates pressures on himself.
Yet he faced more pressure ~2.5 seconds, and ~2 seconds than almost anyone else. Are you saying he left the pocket and invited pressure, all within 2 seconds? Again, you have no proof just guessing. On 502 dropbbacks in 2013, he left the pocket early 68 times.
Wilson is simply better equipped to handle pressure. This isn't even debatable. And this is why when people want to say Ryan would've produced the same team results I disagree. It's diminishing the signature plays Wilson has had in the reg season and the playoffs Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Not directly on point, but this is a game by game chart of % of pressure Wilson faced, with the percent of his scrambles. Ideally you want it to be lockstep or scrambles to be less than pressures. Again though, is he leaving the pocket then inviting pressure, or is he getting pressured then leaving the pocket.
Two more words... Daunte Culpepper!!!! After it came to light that Nick Saban wanted Drew Brees and was forced by the front office to accept we were getting Culpepper, I kinda forgive Saban for going back to college football. Sorry, I deviated
It's both, man. Why do you try to make it one or the other? Sometimes he invites it, hence he was the QB with the most sacks credited to him.
My issue with the pressure rate stat is that it doesn't have an indication of the quality of the pressure. My eyeball mark I impression has been that Tannehill faced far more unblocked rushers than the average QB, where Thomas, Turner, Douglas, Fox et al would hold a block for a period and then fall off and let the pass rusher through unimpeded. I haven't watched enough Wilson to say if he had similar breakdowns, but watching other teams their OLs generally aren't letting unblocked rushers get to their QB as often as we were prior to the purge.
Tecumsah Sherman was the guy who was under appreciated early in his career and recieved a lot of criticism from armchair experts, who ultimately proved the armchair experts wrong.
Yeah.. I threw that one in there for fun. The analogies quickly die with Sherman, but I'll be damned if someday Gase owns the Dolphins (like Grant became President) and Tannehill becomes the HC of the Dolphins (like Sherman became General of the Army when Grant became President). That would be awesome lol.
I did watch a ton of Seattle and IMO Wilson rarely faced the kind of pressure that Tannehill consistently faced.
I did also. And I think Wilson was just so quick to get out of the pocket as opposed to standing there with a deer in the headlights look, that it could be misconstrued as "worse pressure".
I was going to say the same thing...Wilson is effortless in making defenders miss as he weaves his own path. He reminds me of Randall Cunningham in that regard- I love watching him play.
My last post on this as I've wasted way too much time. Well I searched and searched and searched. And unless I subscribe to PFF, they have a "time in the pocket" stat that I can't find a public article on. The closest I can find is time to throw from 2013. On all throws less than 3.0 seconds, he left the pocket once. In his throws that took 2.5-3.0 seconds, he left the pocket once, and the average time to pressure on those throws came at 2.28 seconds. On throws where he took 3.0 - 3.5 seconds, he scrambled 2 times. Time to pressure on those throws were 2.33. Scrambling means leave the pocket according to PFF, could end with a throw or a run, or sack, etc. So on average pressure was coming in at 2.33, but he held the ball in the pocket, except twice, until past 3 seconds. So there is existing evidence he stayed in the pocket long after pressure was applied and was not quick to run. From 0-3.5 seconds, he scrambled 3 times, even though pressure was coming in faster than how long it took him to throw the ball. Now, on throws that took 3.6+ seconds, he scrambled 47 times out of 164 dropbacks. Time to pressure was 2.78. About the same as the NFL average. If you want to argue this is when he left the pocket prematurely and invited pressure, well you're going to need actual video cutups to show that, and it is still possible, but because the stats here imply he was not leaving the pocket prematurely that often. All throws that took 3.5 seconds or less, he scrambled 4 times. https://www.profootballfocus.com/qbs-in-focus-time-to-throw/
I find most any argument relying on PFF a waste of time. I don't value their "information" at all beyond snap counts.
