Thanks for that jim1. Lotulelei at #12 would fit BPA if he's still available then, but do find it hard to imagine us going DL with 2 out of our first 3 picks.
I was watching some film of Lotulelei play against USC the other night. USC supposedly has the top center prospect available for the draft. Lotulelei was man handling him. I supposed there would be a lot of Dolphins fans upset at drafting a defensive tackle with this pick, but if Lotulelei was available, this would be a no brainer to me. This guy is an impact defender up front. The limited footage I've seen of him makes me think he will be a Haloti Ngata type of player in the NFL. I don't anticipate that he's going to be available for Miami's pick, and I'd have a hard time not putting him in the top 3-4 prospects in this draft, period.
That's a tough call because Star (easier to spell than his last name) is a great player. If we re-sign Starks we wouldn't really need another DT- but do you pass on the (maybe) next Haloti Ngata? It's a tough call either way, because Star looks to be easily the best player on that board, but how much money can we devote to DT? Bottom line- I think that you take him, go for the talent and the value. Use FA and the 6 picks in rds 2-5 to draft WRs, pass rushers and DBs.
half the uninformed fan base would stock up on rotten tomatoes if we took a DT with our first pick, but I'd be grinning from ear to ear if that Samoan beast were somehow still on the board at #12. Star & big Paul Soliai could form a nice bond and really feed off each other, no pun intended. If he escapes the top 3, it's actually possible he could slide to us. 4. Eagles. drafted Fletcher Cox last year. Signed Cullen Jenkins for 5 yr/30M. Have much bigger problems than DT, like Oline. 5. Lions. Suh & Fairley 6. Browns. Rubin & 1st rounder Phil Taylor 7. Cardinals. already have Calais Campbell & 1st rounder Dan Williams. Much bigger problems than Dline. 8. Bills. Dareus & Kyle Williams 9. Jets. just spent 1st rounders on Wilkerson & Coples 10. Titans. pose a problem for us 11. Chargers. have a nice pair of 34DEs in Liuget & Reyes 12. Miami Question is, if Lotulelei slips through, would you trade a 3rd or 4th to bypass the Titans? Considering the cost to re-sign Starks, I'd be all for trading up a few spots for Lotulelei and using the Starks savings elsewhere, like on a corner to pair with Smith so Marshall can move to safety.
Eh, not in favor of taking him at #12, not that he is a poor player or prospect, more we are loaded with blue collar types, we need playmakers, guys who effect outcomes on any given play and a DT probably is not that guy. We have enough smash, we need more dash so to speak.
Anyone who does a mock BEFORE all the juniors heave declared and before free agency is a bit of an idiot.
Biz side of things Boom, of course the draft is nonsensical, as a biz practice they toss it up there knowing fans will of course click on the link.
Huh? How the heck do you believe a franchise caliber DT doesn't effect outcomes on any given play? Seems you vastly underrate the impact of the position for some reason.
To easily handled, just double him and take your chances with Soliai or Odie. And, this is rarely talked about but DT's bust out at a high rate, this came out during the "draft a Qb!" debates prior to tannehill's arrival, Dorsey, Jackson, Jags took a DT that has not done a whole lot. Speed on the other hand, can always be useful.
Really? That easy huh? I'd be interested in hearing what positions you believe have a greater impact than an elite defensive tackle like Ngata and Wilfork, while keeping in mind who's actually available this draft so that you're not simply making up stuff that isn't applicable.
A beast DT is just a nightmare to handle. Most QBs do not like pressure from the middle, and a DT from the Ngata/Wilfork mold is just a wrecking ball coming at your QB from the worst place. That being said, I don't think taking a DT is the best idea. Obviously if the top DE prospects are gone, and you think this guy is a once in a draft talent, then it would be smart. However, there are still possibilities i would explore before taking a DT. Milliner, Te'o and trading back among them.
Honestly, my approach to this offseason is: 1. Do they score Td's? 2. Do they help to score Td's? I think we've passed the point of "your strength up the middle", we really need more speed and Td production. And I know I'll be accused of "fantasy football" however when you watched our offense this year you could see it was somewhat out of sync and guys made plays but as Aqua said: "Extraordinary plays" We had very little of them, really only Bush and Hartline did so, most of the other pieces on O just got the yds the play was designed to make and no more, we need more dynamism.
No way we take a DT with the 12th pick when the head coach came out yesterday and admitted there are no playmakers on the team on both sides of the ball and we can't score any points or create turnovers. We need players that can house the *****.
If this guy is really the next Wilfork or Ngata, then he is a type of player to create turnovers. Plus there are 4 more picks left in the next two rounds to get pretty good WR, CB and S.
I don't like that approach DDupree, it is why we are where we are atm. Use your highest value resources on guys who score Td's not b/c "gosh, Soliai is a FA in 2014, he sure is expensive, good thing we have so and so" To much future orientation in the NFL is as bad as not enough future orientation. We need playmakers, guys who handle the football and make things happen, he could be a great DT but he is not our need. Look at it this way, Lions have Suh, were did it get them?
The Lions have Calvin Johnson, where did it get them? We have good interior defensive linemen, we do not have Ngata or Wilfork. Last I checked, both teams are in the playoffs. Plus there are still 4 more picks in the next two rounds to get people with the hand on the ball. Also there is free agency. It is not like at Miami's 12th pick in the draft that is the ONLY chance to get a person who gets his hand on the ball.
Look at it this way, Lions have Calvin, where did it get them? I can do this all day long. Elite DTs don't make your team worse, Pods, and if we lose Starks we could absolutely take an impact player like Lotulelei at DT. WTH does Star have to do with Solia being a FA in 2014?
The bottom line is, if you are on the clock with the 12th pick and Star Lotulelei is available, you don't pass on him to take Keenan Allen no matter how big your need is at the wide receiver position. Star would be close to the very top of my draft board, period.
Yup.... and he'd have a greater impact on a per snap basis. Besides, you could use the savings on Starks to add Greg Jennings or even put it towards Mike Wallace. Personally I'd rather have Lotulelei & Jennings than Starks & Allen if we're looking at from a sense of perspective.
I think the 2 sides have merit. If Star is that special a player, and the top DEs are gone, he can only make your team better. However Padre has a point also. This team needs to score points. The defense as it is will keep us competitive, we just lack scoring to stay in games. Picking DT, even is he is a great player, is a luxury for this team because we have good to very good tackles already, where as we have average and below average in plenty of other positions. There is definitely wisdom in thinking Star who is top talent at his position, over someone like Allen, who while good, is not a can't miss player. However I just feel we can address other areas and improve our team a greater amount than just upgrading DT from good or very good, to great.
-You can NEVER rely on FA, sucker bet really -Johnson also set a receiving record, and means the lions offense will be potent for yrs, their Defense was awful Even with Suh, all things being equal, go with the offensive player.
..... but you realize Star's cost over the next 4 years could be upward of $30 million less than Starks while actually upgrading Starks? You don't think there's value to that $30 million in savings? That's enough to pay for Greg Jennings for instance, who fills a position of need. Like I said, Lotulelei & Jennings is likely an upgrade over Keenan Allen & Starks.
That's another point to consider yes. However, if don't resign Starks, we still have Odrick who will be solid at DT. BTW i'm not saying we take WR with a 1st. I don't think there is value at #12 in the WR position. I want DE with the first pick. All i'm saying is IMO we get better return in upgrading a unit like DE from below average like it is now, to potentially above average/good/great, than upgrading DT from good to very good. That's all I'm saying. But I also see your point with Star. He would fall under the same category of Manti Te'o. Not an imperative need, but certainly a can't miss talent. I'd just feel more excited with getting a good player in a position of utmost need.
Where have I heard that before? Top 12 Wr's in the last 10 yrs or so? Not many, probably Ginn and Williamson, otherwise Johnson/Megatron/Green etc. And I'm not neccessarily saying "draft a Wr dammit!" Not at all, what I am suggesting is whomever it is, simply MUST make plays on the ball consistently, we have plenty of talent who does what Star does, we have few who make plays happen, that must be addressed first and foremost. And I'm quite aware of the fact "we" can want whomever we want, or whatever we want, the draft does not work like that, you have a pick, who comes off of the board prior to that pick is out of our control. IE, if Star is the best talent, but we need a Wr, you cannot reach for one, you have to take him. We saw this for years when looking for a Qb. Fans were screaming for Brady Quinn for example.
I agree, provided there's one worth taking who would upgrade the defense more than Star would from DT. I agree as well, but at the same time it's not often you find game-changing talents worthy of keeping as a main stay for 10+ years and a focal point of his side of the ball like you would with Wilfork & Ngata, or a Revis type player, which Star could very well be on the level of. I'm of the belief that it's much easier to maintain a great defense if you have a handful of outstanding players to serve as your core like Baltimore has done with Ngata, Lewis, Reed, and Suggs b/c it can get quite expensive trying to re-sign all the quality guys you have once their rookie contracts end and they're playing at a much higher & more expensive level. IMO if you have 3 or 4 true impact defensive players it makes it easier to plug in guys around them and still maintain consistency. For instance, if you have 2 very good DTs, it's possible you're likely to lose one due to FA and salary cap costs to employ two expensive DTs, meaning one might eventually have to go and you're left trying to replace him, most likely with a rookie, leaving you with a good DT and a guy you're trying to develop into a good DT, where as with Star you're always left with an elite DT no matter what. With Anthony Barr not declaring and there not being many elite players available at positions of need, I personally wouldn't be looking for excuses to not take Star.
Best DT in the entire draft? Thank you. Guy is going to be really ****ing good and no way Geno Smith goes 1.
Technically FA will be pretty much done before the draft So what? They are still losers. I want to win games. Baltimore is in the playoffs.
Showing up in his last game before the draft after being inconsistent through most of the year and even disappearing at times is a little concerning to me. Was he playing for a paycheck or was he genuinely leaving it all on the field for his team's chance to win?
