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Draft Spotlight: OLB Ricky Sapp - Clemson

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by Conuficus, Feb 20, 2010.

  1. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    http://www.universaldraft.com/2010/02/20/2010-spotlight-olb-ricky-sapp-clemson/

    :whistling:
     
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  2. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Sapp sounds like a bit of a project with poor footwork and poor explosion.

    Conu, off hand, can you think of some OLB/DE types who are say 6'4 or taller and 265 or heavier this draft?

    I'm looking at Brian Johnston and I. Francis and I'm struck at how similar they are, 6'4+ and 270+ and have to think they are SLB competition this year.
     
  3. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    If you go on your train of thought regarding Wake as trade bait for some 4-3 team, then you'll need more LB's regardless. There are a couple of guys like Derrick Morgan, although I don't know if he can move well enough, maybe JPP, Greg Hardy, Rahim Alem - maybe....Austen Lane?

    They'll want a guy who can move in well for either side, and that excludes Kindle IMO. Hughes has issues against the run, and also must become stronger. Graham may not be athletic or long enough for what we need. He gives a bit more ground than Sapp does, and aside from Everson Griffen who else could we go with? In terms of RD 1-2 talent?
     
  4. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well, what I'm thinking is they will not spend a ton of resources on the SLB position and Johnston and I Francis, Q Moses and whomever they bring in will compete for the job.

    Wake in this scenario is the Will or in competition for the job.


    Graham (whom I really like) just does not fit their prototype at the SLB, as you say lack of size more or less.

    I looked at Selvie and he does not have the bulk, he is a thin 250.

    So far I'm looking at Wootten, Cam Sheffield, Brandon Lang and Alex Daniels.

    And let me hit you up with another one, Nick Saban is supposed to be the Defensive Backs Guru, so I'm thinking about Justin Woodall from AL in the 6th rd...

    As for who do we go with in Rd 1 or 2, I'm wondering if we go offense in those slots, and maybe sign a UFA like Vrabel to play the strongside for 2010.

    If not that direction maybe someone like Jerry Hughes at #43 would be a nice pickup, he also could probably play either WLB or SLB.
     
  5. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

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    Waiting on their spotlights. Great job as usual from the Universal team.
     
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  6. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    If Miami goes into the season with only Quentin Moses, Brian Johnston, and Iakaka Alama-Francis as strong side guys, then Jeff Ireland needs to be fired. Talk about getting no impact from your strongside position at linebacker! Wow. That would have to be the worst collection of players for that position in the history of the NFL.
     
  7. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    CK has a video of Griffen, but no writeup yet.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IfplrUsJgs"]YouTube- Universal Draft Presents DE Everson Griffen of USC[/ame]
     
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  8. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Same could have been said about Roth at SOLB in 08, and that is why it is called "player development"..:wink2:
     
  9. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    By the way, I advise people to play and compare Hughes, Kindle, and Sapp and see how you'd stack them. Weatherspoon I believe isn't a good fit as compared to someone like Donald Butler, Phillip Dillard or Thaddeus Gibson (my other dark horse for this team to convert to ILB).

    But in terms of where you'd stack those 3 players Hughes, Sapp and Kindle I have Sapp, Hughes then Kindle. But that's just me.
     
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  10. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I'd tend to agree with that assessment Conu, Sapp imvho looks like he has the best motor on the field, Hughes looks like the most physical player and Kindle looks like a pure WLB, just a passrushing Lb with a inconsistent motor.
     
  11. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Kindle's limited IMO. Hughes can be very good if he becomes stronger and continues to grow, but he did play against a little lesser standard of comeptition for the most part. Regardless, he can move too and has the stats to prove it. Sapp had an up and down career, blew an ACL and just made a switch to more of a LB role. He must become more physical and explosive in some areas, but other areas he is better than the others.

    I know CK likes Everson Griffen a good deal, and I can see why; he's a hell of an athlete at that size. I know Boomer now thinks I use Youtube as a scouting tool, and that Stevie Wonder has a better success rate picking out VW Bugs.

    Next for me are Sean Lee and Navorro Bowman.
     
  12. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    E Griffen does have a good motor as well, imho he would be a stretch at #12 but I like what I've seen of him.

    Conu, what is the metric you use to decide if a player has a good motor or not?
     
  13. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    There is no end all be all factor for me, I just like to see what they do when the play is away from them, how they play when the play comes at them, do they chase the ball, do they fight to disengage regardless of whether they do in fact gain separation or not. Will a guy jump up off the ground, rather than simply just getting up.

    I just look for desire, which shows up in the little things more than anything else. To me you can see the guys who try and overachieve, they are moving around at a faster rate than the other players regardless of their actual speed.
     
  14. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Matt was actually a good player prior to the move, which cannot be said about these three.
     
  15. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    I think Jerry Hughes is the better player right now and could very well be the better player in the long run, but I do recognize that 3 years from now, we may all be looking at Ricky Sapp as a late bloomer and wonder why we didn't take him when we had the chance. To me, based on what I have seen, Sergio Kindle is a distant third to them.

    I like Everson Griffen, but the fact that he was an underachiever in college just irks me.
     
  16. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I think you hit the nail on the head in terms of the fact there doesn't appear to be the "one" guy that jumps out at you. Or even two guys that have made themselves appear to be above the rest of the pack.

    I have no issues with people swapping the first two picks, and I can see why some may, but I think most would agree that Kindle is a distant third. Now when we do JPP we can have a nice little comparison as well.
     
  17. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Mostly none of the three had the chance to play, Q probably has played the most and he looked good, not great, in fillin duty for JT.

    I think here would be a good place to reiterate my philosophy on the flaws in the Scouting process as well as the failure of GM's to consistently recognize less than obvious talent.

    Good GM's find those players, crappy GM's cannot find good players when they pick in the top 10, Bill Polian can, Jeff Ireland as well, toss Jerry Reese in there as well.

    Imho fans and observers sometimes become far to locked into the Draft as the only manner to find talent, that is a natural occurence however it is myopic imho.

    I'll grant for every Lou Polite there is a Marvin Fowler, but why does DBess's story not really surprise anyone? UDFA's and castoffs break through in the NFL all the time, my argument is a good GM has an eye for those players and the Staff's know how to develop them into what they are looking for and Matt Roth had an equal chance with Vonnie Holiday to play SLB for us, they chose Roth based on what they were looking for and it worked out.

    Why would players like B Johnston or Q somehow be excluded from that same success path?

    I Francis was the #8 DE prospect in 07, Johnston was as quick as Darren McFadden in the first 10yds, Q Moses showed that he can fillin at OLB.

    http://uhfootball.blogspot.com/2007/03/pro-day-wrap-up.html


    In 07 I. Francis at the UH pro day did everything from line up at OLB to run pass routes as a tight end, yet he was cut so that means he is no longer talented?
     
  18. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    One thing we will not be able to evaluate with JPP is his mental make up. Who knows if what has been said about him are just rumors, but there are things floating around that suggest he doesn't have the mental make up to succeed in the NFL long term.
     
  19. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    It all comes down to a core Parcells philosophy: "If they don't bite as pups, they probably aren't going to bite."

    I saw Johnston play live back in '07, and he never once stood out to me on the field.
     
  20. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    And yet, Lou Polite and Cam Wake were out of the NFL, and now they are arguably two of the Dolphins best new players who cost nothing but a contract to acquire, and cheap contracts at that...



    I saw Matt Roth in 2007 and he did not impress me either, yet those natural tools did not go away, Roth was coached up and there is no reason why Johnston cannot do the same thing, ditto I Francis.

    That does not mean that they will mind you, just that the system is in place to offer them a chance of success if they do their part and it shows on the field.

    As the old saying goes KB, anyone can learn to run a route, but there is no creating speed, a player has it or they don't.
     
  21. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    It would be foolish to ignore the position completely based on the fact that you think these three players have potential. Two of them have been in the league for three years and have done nothing, and one has been in the league for two and has done nothing. You are trying to compare them to Matt Roth, who was a starting defensive end in his second season and played a lot as a rookie. These guys have not started anything since their college days. Moses was a flame out for TWO teams before landing in Miami, and his playing time has decreased in each season.
     
  22. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I'm just not sold on him yet, I just have this nagging feeling. I don't like one year players to be honest,...how will they adjust to their opponent's knowing they were coming.
     
  23. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    In Q's defense he was cut to make room for a Qb, he was in AZ for a week, maybe two weeks, and the Raiders cut Stryker Sulak and Slade Norris, both players taken around where Q was drafted but they were also cut by Al Davis.

    Johnston popped a calf and it effected a nerve in his foot last season which is why he was released, neither player was cut due to ineffectiveness.

    Actually Q has always been consistent with the Dolphins:

    http://www.profootballfocus.com/cstats.php?tab=by_team&season=2007&teamid=17&stype=a&stats=d

    http://www.profootballfocus.com/cst...ason=2008&teamid=17&stats=d&stype=r&playerid=

    http://www.profootballfocus.com/cstats.php?tab=by_team&season=2009&teamid=17&stype=a&stats=d

    Does not play much, when he does positive results are shown, even during the abysmal 2007 season Q did a decent job as a rookie.

    I. Francis was drafted by Matt Millen's Detroit, and he had a decent enough 2008 season:

    http://www.profootballfocus.com/cst...ason=2008&teamid=11&stats=d&stype=r&playerid=

    I Francis was a great prospect coming out of U of H, as I've pointed out earlier, he could play anything from NT to OLB, which is why Ireland picked him up, if IF ( :D ) works out they have picked up a great athlete, if he does not work out I guess we the #58 pick busted on us..err...wait a minute..

    Ireland "gets" the concept of picking up these athletically gifted players who busted elsewhere and giving them a shot, their problem could have been plain old bad coaching or wrong fit in a different scheme.
     
  24. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Same here, that JUCO then one and done at USF bothers me greatly, he had a great 09, well heck Selvie had a great 08, now look at his draft stock.

    Big Time College programs comb JUCO ranks for talent how JPP would up at USF also bothers me.

    As for J Hughes, Rb's who successfully convert to Lb tend to be good NFLers, for example Butkus was a FB in College.
     
  25. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    JPP is at USF for one reason - grades. It's the same reason some high level JUCO guys end up at Troy. They can qualify at these schools where they will not qualify academically to play at an SEC school or an ACC school.
     
  26. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    More than likely, still, staying at USF for 1 season after playing in JUCO then suddenly being vaulted into top 10 draft status?

    This from a cat who could not even get a waiver to some place like FSU that claims 80% of it's kids are mentally challenged?

    Danger..Danger..Danger...
     
  27. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    USF has another JUCO guy coming in that would have gone to an SEC school if he could have made the grades. You are going to hear the name Claude Davis this coming season. The guy is a stud, but he couldn't make the grades to get an SEC spot.
     
  28. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

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    How would Bowers stack up against this years prospects?
     
  29. sergiomiguel2

    sergiomiguel2 New Member

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    Ok after looking at this tape this is what I have to say

    first off, the ACC is a very good conference, but FSU had a lot of o-line troubles this year when they were suppose to be very solid there...so much of these highlights come against them if you had not noticed.

    I hate highlights of 2 or 3 games...that rarely shows me enough to get a good read on someone, just cause someone shows up for 2-3 games means nothing!

    but here is what I got...first off he's more of a hand in the ground rusher, and has much better instincts with his hand in the ground...I understand he switched to LB late in his career, but I see him as a very good DE prospect, with capability to be a SOLB in a 3-4

    Positives: He has a great first step and jumps that snap perfectly, when he sheds a block he constantly finds the ball, he has a great motor and I see him run down almost every play, great size and agility (one play vs GT when he beats the OT off the line and sees the hand off, one of the fastest moves to get back inside and make the tackle, great play) he also was constantly in double teams or many blockers hitting him (which means he causes threat and makes people notice where he is, he wreaks some havoc)

    Negatives: Although he gets a good first step...in college do they rarely use hard counts (something he will deal with on a constant basis in the NFL, if he can time it right he will have a great first step in the NFL, but very often does that not transfer because they cant read the snap), Too often he got washed out by the tackle (he had a great first step, but the tackle wouldn't even need to touch him, he would shuffled down with him and he'd be out of the play), poor reads as a LB, I saw him sit still for half a second after the ball was snapped (in the NFL guards and tackles, specially on run plays will have popped you by then, seeing you stand still is when they pounce on you and take you completely out of the play), I also saw him get held up easily once the tackles had their arms extended (anyone know his arm figures?), Finally when it did seem like he disengaged from the lineman it was usually due to that lineman finding the 2nd level (he starts at the line of scrimmage in almost every game, that lineman usually would pop him initially and find the next man, not him disengage the blocker)

    Analysis: He has the strength and agility to be a solid SOLB, he can react quickly and has a great first step. He needs to be better at working his hands against the long reaches of lineman, and needs to get a bit lower to give them a big pop and send them backwards (he can do that, but needs to show it more often), Finally he has upside as a SOLB but I wonder if he's a much better rusher with his hand in the ground than in a LB stance
     

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