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Draft Implications Of Resigning Hartline?

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by Bpk, Mar 5, 2013.

  1. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Given the role Hartline plays, does this change which receivers we are likely to look at in the draft?

    Are we more or less likely to consider Cordarrelle at #12?

    Which receivers complement Bess and Hartline? Which ones are too similar and would sit behind them in the depth chart/create a logjam at a spot?

    I think with Bowe's contract numbers setting the FA market, and rumors of Jennings wanting over $10m a year we may be looking at the draft for our other WRs.

    If we do not sign a top FA WR, do we go into the season with Hartline and BEss #1 and #2 with any rookies behind them on the bench?
     
  2. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The complements would be faster and/or bigger playmaker types. IMO that would make Allen and Woods less attractive.
     
  3. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Greg Jennings @ 11 million a year is a bad joke. Ill happily pass if that's the price. 7 million and not a cent more. I think Jennings is becoming more unlikely by the day.

    Mike Wallace at 11 million makes far more sense. And even that causes an uproar around here because of his perceived inability to run the route tree.

    If we sign Wallace, CP is out at #12. I think we draft 1 WR in round 2 (Swope ) and use the rest our top 4 picks on various positions.

    Well let Bess go next year and maybe draft another WR in the 2nd or 3rd Like Green Bay does.
     
  4. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Terrance Williams, or is he too one dimensional opposite Hartline?
     
  5. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Not a fan. IMO he makes Hartline appear sure-footed.
     
  6. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Yeah that's the thing. My instinct is to say that a guy like Patterson actually got MORE likely with this signing. But overall I just do not see Ireland liking him.
     
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  7. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The guy I think that got most likely based on this would be Justin Hunter.
     
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  8. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    yes, I really don't see his skill set fitting this offense in the least TBH.

    Either Jennings or Wallace will still end up in Miami despite Hartline's signing, so IMO whichever one we sign will determine the receiver we'll prioritize first. If we sign Wallace then Austin in the slot makes the most sense.... or simply holding out till Swope or Bailey with 3a. If it's the versatile Jennings, then we could be looking at a perimeter guy like Patterson, Allen, Wheaton, or Patton as our first receiver taken.... and either way Swope's probably wearing aqua & orange.
     
  9. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    Agreed. Hartline allows for more risk in the WR spot.
     
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  10. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    Depends on FA agency. I think if the Fo gets a FA WR, then we are looking at Aaron Mallette, Ace Sanders in the draft, in late rounds, maybe.
     
  11. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Hope not. Was never a fan of Hunter's game, or build.
     
  12. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Agree with most of this, but not Patterson at 12 if we are paying over $15 million to Jennings and Hartline already, and Bess is there as a slot guy. How much will Patterson see the field?
     
  13. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    I'd let Jennings man the slot (if he has indeed lost a step of his speed), trade Bess, and let Patterson (or whoever) take split end.
     
  14. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    That's more chess moves, vision and creativity than this front office has.
     
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  15. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I honestly don't think it changes much. I always assumed Hartline will be back. They will be looking for playmaker types for sure, but the Dolphins need more than 1 more WR, so a solid all-around "possession" WR like a Stedman Bailey or Keenan Allen could still be in play.

    Honestly, I still think they're going to sign Mike Wallace so that will take care of the deep threat need. That's why I think they will simply be looking for the best WR, not necessarily a specific mold physically/athletically.
     
  16. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    This is what I'm hoping. With all the WR's from last year in the fold - we still need two WR's imo. We need a veteran who can be the #1 and we need a rookie who can compete for time and eventually be a starter within a year or so (I'd say at lowest a 2nd round pick; maybe 3rd - but that would be stretching it).

    They are way too high on Hartline, imo. But, I also understand that he is security for Tannehill - they know each other and he knows the offense.
     
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  17. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    IMO Hartline is a #2 and the alleged contract pays him as such. As for the WR position, I would add a #1 like Jennings and draft two more.
     
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  18. Larry Little

    Larry Little Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    This is assuming Jennings would want to sign with the Phins to man the slot. I'll go out on a limb and say he'd say... NO THANKS!
     
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  19. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    I like him at right value.
     
  20. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Just curious. What is the right value in your eyes? I'd take him in the 2nd. It's still boom or bust, but the upside is pretty high.
     
  21. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    2-3.
     
  22. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    I don't think it changes much at all. Keeping Brian Hartline has been part of the plan. He's a steady, solid receiver that has a good rapport with the young quarterback the team is building around. A complete make over of the wide receiving corps was never going to happen in one off season as it was.

    Miami will still likely add a free agent receiver, and Greg Jennings (not Mike Wallace) is the best fit, and they are still likely to add a receiver early in the draft. Something tells me that no matter who they sign in free agency, Tavon Austin is a guy that Jeff Ireland and our scouts have a very high opinion of right now.
     
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  23. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    About Justin Hunter, it's like I said before...you go off the 2012 tape and he's not worthy of the pre-season hype surrounding him. Kind of like Michael Johnson in that way, coming out a few years ago.

    But not unlike Michael Johnson, there's a potential catalyst for unlocking value. With Johnson it was if he could ever find a way to stop cramping during games and develop some stamina to where he could play full time and not get tired. With Justin Hunter it's the ACL injury. My issues with Hunter that made him not worthy of his billing in 2012 were that he wasn't creating a lot of separation, which put him in a lot of 50/50 ball scenarios (especially since Bray liked to throw high to him on purpose), and of course Hunter didn't come down with those consistently (hardly any receiver does). Then on top of that when it comes to his RAC ability, he's awful leggy and it seems like it takes him extra time to get those legs under him and start changing directions quickly, cutting, etc. I'm actually surprised he's as good as he is after the catch, with that kind of disadvantage.

    But the thing that keeps me up at nights as I've said before is, what if the problem was just the ACL? Common wisdom maintains that in your first year off the ACL surgery you're still impacted, physically and mentally. Second year is when you're REALLY back. In his freshman year he only had 16 catches but 7 of them were touchdowns and he had 415 yards on those 16 catches (unbelievable 26 yard average in the SEC). Fast forward and he's a 14.8 yards per catch guy with a paltry 8.5 yards per target average. What if when he gets into 2013 he's just a different player physically, much closer to the player he was in 2010 when he had that 26 yards per catch average and 7 TDs on only 16 catches, much closer to the kind of player you'd GUESS he is based on the fact he's 6'4" and runs a 4.40 and can leap 40 inches vertically and 11+ feet on the broad jump.

    I mean when you consider all of THAT...it's hard to bet against the man. You're looking for the potential for players to actually become that #1 guy everyone covets at the NFL level, the kind that scares the Jesus out of everyone. He has that pure potential. Hard to bet against it when it's what you need.

    So with Brian Hartline in the fold it really wouldn't surprise me to see Jeff Ireland steer toward Justin Hunter in the 2nd round.
     
  24. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Hunter probably has the most inconsistent hands of the top rated receivers in the draft. I agree that his frame, speed, and athleticism is something everyone covets in the NFL, but they also want that ability to be able to consistently catch the football.

    http://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2012/11/06/justin-hunter-focus-is-a-skill/
     
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  25. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    what irks me about Hunter is he seems to play like he thinks he's more of a playmaker after the catch than he actually is. It's like he's trying to be someone he's not and needs to just be Justin Hunter.
     
  26. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Long twigs for legs may mean he is susceptible to more leg injuries.

    Inconsistent. Unimpressive 2012.

    Maybe I should watch 2011 tape, but I am not a fan unless we hit pick 3b.
     
  27. CANDolphan

    CANDolphan New Member

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    We'd need a speed guy, and Id still like to upgrade Bess. Bailey or Swope (prefer Bailey, actually) and trade Bess to someone/anyone for a 4th if you can nab it.
     
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  28. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    IMO, Dolphins fans do not appreciate Davone Bess for what he is. It's the same response I saw from many when Miami had Wes Welker. Like Wes, Davone is small, quick, and not very fast. All the guy does though is get open, catch the football, and convert first downs. Long term, he's not really a fit for what Miami wants to do offensively. He's not a vertical stretch guy, and Miami ultimately wants receivers that can stretch the field both horizontally and vertically. So, long term, Davone will be on the outs.

    However, the lack of respect he gets from Dolphins fans will likely be forgetten about if Davone ever gets in a system that will consistently utilize his quickness and route running on shorter routes and pair him with a quality quarterback. This is similar to Wes Welker in Miami vs Wes Welker in New England, only that Bess has been far more productive in Miami than Welker was.
     
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  29. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    I think people are nitpicking and overthinking Hunter's flaws (at the moment). He had the highest first down and/or touchdown percentage of his receptions of all receivers in this class, including Patterson.
     
  30. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    It's possible he's just trying to be the Justin Hunter that he was prior to tearing his ACL, and found in his first year that he couldn't.
     
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  31. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The hands thing doesn't bother me as much. I've seen him make some pretty incredible catches. I think he's as prone to losing focus on the ball and dropping it as anyone. But I also think part of his inability to catch the football at times had more to do with his being asked to always come up with these physical and/or outside-his-frame catches...and part of that is Tyler Bray being all Tyler Bray, and part of it MAY be lack of separation due to not being all the way back from his ACL.

    I've got him solidly in the 2nd round. You won't hear a complaint out of me if that's who Miami goes with.
     
  32. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    Hey Chris, do you know how he is above the neck?




    BTW, did you hear the same thing about Da'Rick Rogers-- that a "source" told Bruce Feldman (CBS) that Rogers's attitude bothered some of his coaches at Tech, and they were skeptical about how much he actually matured. Truth to it or another instance of a unanimous source trying to push the kid further down the draft? I thought he supposedly interviewed well at the combine.
     
  33. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    No I do not, unfortunately. I don't imagine he's bad though. Tennessee did not run one of those mickey mouse offenses where you worry that the wide receivers come out not knowing how to run anything but a straight line.
     
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  34. CANDolphan

    CANDolphan New Member

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    Welker is a better athlete than Bess, which is more of a knock on Bess than it is on Welker.

    I love Bess. I just think he can easily be upgraded.
     
  35. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I had heard the same report. Probably same source. It's believable, IMO. I was told unequivocally that he was a pain in the neck player at Tennessee even aside from the failed drug tests. I didn't like his body language or tendencies at the Combine, either...FWIW.

    He and Keenan Allen...similar for me. Primary difference being Keenan Allen hasn't failed a bunch of drug tests.
     
  36. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    his body language caught my attention as well.
     
  37. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin RIP Phinsational Luxury Box Club Member

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    ok, I'm gonna rewatch him pre injury and post injury and see if he still irks me.
     
  38. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    See if you can find freshman tape when half his friggin catches were long touchdowns, lol.
     
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  39. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Agreed, if I had to choose between Bess and Hartline, its Bess.
     
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  40. Xeticus

    Xeticus Junior Member

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    Honestly I don't expect all those receivers to be there in 3 years. Either Mike Wallace will be a diva, Hartline will underperform or Bess will be traded. Something will happen. You draft Patterson for this year AND the future.
     

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