Draft Implications Of Resigning Hartline?

The complements would be faster and/or bigger playmaker types. IMO that would make Allen and Woods less attractive.

Greg Jennings @ 11 million a year is a bad joke. Ill happily pass if that's the price. 7 million and not a cent more. I think Jennings is becoming more unlikely by the day.

Mike Wallace at 11 million makes far more sense. And even that causes an uproar around here because of his perceived inability to run the route tree.

If we sign Wallace, CP is out at #12. I think we draft 1 WR in round 2 (Swope ) and use the rest our top 4 picks on various positions.

Well let Bess go next year and maybe draft another WR in the 2nd or 3rd Like Green Bay does.

"rafael wrote:

The complements would be faster and/or bigger playmaker types. IMO that would make Allen and Woods less attractive.

Terrance Williams, or is he too one dimensional opposite Hartline?

"Bpk wrote:

Terrance Williams, or is he too one dimensional opposite Hartline?

Not a fan. IMO he makes Hartline appear sure-footed.

"rafael wrote:

The complements would be faster and/or bigger playmaker types. IMO that would make Allen and Woods less attractive.

Yeah that's the thing. My instinct is to say that a guy like Patterson actually got MORE likely with this signing. But overall I just do not see Ireland liking him.

The guy I think that got most likely based on this would be Justin Hunter.

"Bpk wrote:

Terrance Williams, or is he too one dimensional opposite Hartline?

yes, I really don't see his skill set fitting this offense in the least TBH.

Either Jennings or Wallace will still end up in Miami despite Hartline's signing, so IMO whichever one we sign will determine the receiver we'll prioritize first. If we sign Wallace then Austin in the slot makes the most sense.... or simply holding out till Swope or Bailey with 3a. If it's the versatile Jennings, then we could be looking at a perimeter guy like Patterson, Allen, Wheaton, or Patton as our first receiver taken.... and either way Swope's probably wearing aqua & orange.

"ckparrothead wrote:

Yeah that's the thing. My instinct is to say that a guy like Patterson actually got MORE likely with this signing. But overall I just do not see Ireland liking him.

Agreed. Hartline allows for more risk in the WR spot.

Depends on FA agency. I think if the Fo gets a FA WR, then we are looking at Aaron Mallette, Ace Sanders in the draft, in late rounds, maybe.

"ckparrothead wrote:

The guy I think that got most likely based on this would be Justin Hunter.

Hope not. Was never a fan of Hunter's game, or build.

"phinsational wrote:

yes, I really don't see his skill set fitting this offense in the least TBH.

Either Jennings or Wallace will still end up in Miami despite Hartline's signing, so IMO whichever one we sign will determine the receiver we'll prioritize first. If we sign Wallace then Austin in the slot makes the most sense.... or simply holding out till Swope or Bailey with 3a. If it's the versatile Jennings, then we could be looking at a perimeter guy like Patterson, Allen, Wheaton, or Patton as our first receiver taken.... and either way Swope's probably wearing aqua & orange.

Agree with most of this, but not Patterson at 12 if we are paying over $15 million to Jennings and Hartline already, and Bess is there as a slot guy. How much will Patterson see the field?

"Bpk wrote:

Agree with most of this, but not Patterson at 12 if we are paying over $15 million to Jennings and Hartline already, and Bess is there as a slot guy. How much will Patterson see the field?

I'd let Jennings man the slot (if he has indeed lost a step of his speed), trade Bess, and let Patterson (or whoever) take split end.

"phinsational wrote:

I'd let Jennings man the slot (if he has indeed lost a step of his speed), trade Bess, and let Patterson (or whoever) take split end.

That's more chess moves, vision and creativity than this front office has.

I honestly don't think it changes much. I always assumed Hartline will be back. They will be looking for playmaker types for sure, but the Dolphins need more than 1 more WR, so a solid all-around "possession" WR like a Stedman Bailey or Keenan Allen could still be in play.

Honestly, I still think they're going to sign Mike Wallace so that will take care of the deep threat need. That's why I think they will simply be looking for the best WR, not necessarily a specific mold physically/athletically.

"sports24/7 wrote:

I honestly don't think it changes much. I always assumed Hartline will be back. They will be looking for playmaker types for sure, but the Dolphins need more than 1 more WR, so a solid all-around "possession" WR like a Stedman Bailey or Keenan Allen could still be in play.

Honestly, I still think they're going to sign Mike Wallace so that will take care of the deep threat need. That's why I think they will simply be looking for the best WR, not necessarily a specific mold physically/athletically.

This is what I'm hoping. With all the WR's from last year in the fold - we still need two WR's imo. We need a veteran who can be the #1 and we need a rookie who can compete for time and eventually be a starter within a year or so (I'd say at lowest a 2nd round pick; maybe 3rd - but that would be stretching it).

They are way too high on Hartline, imo. But, I also understand that he is security for Tannehill - they know each other and he knows the offense.

"Da 'Fins wrote:

This is what I'm hoping. With all the WR's from last year in the fold - we still need two WR's imo. We need a veteran who can be the #1 and we need a rookie who can compete for time and eventually be a starter within a year or so (I'd say at lowest a 2nd round pick; maybe 3rd - but that would be stretching it).

They are way too high on Hartline, imo. But, I also understand that he is security for Tannehill - they know each other and he knows the offense.

IMO Hartline is a #2 and the alleged contract pays him as such. As for the WR position, I would add a #1 like Jennings and draft two more.

"phinsational wrote:

I'd let Jennings man the slot (if he has indeed lost a step of his speed), trade Bess, and let Patterson (or whoever) take split end.

This is assuming Jennings would want to sign with the Phins to man the slot. I'll go out on a limb and say he'd say... NO THANKS!

"ckparrothead wrote:

The guy I think that got most likely based on this would be Justin Hunter.

I like him at right value.

"alen1 wrote:

I like him at right value.

Just curious. What is the right value in your eyes? I'd take him in the 2nd. It's still boom or bust, but the upside is pretty high.

"sports24/7 wrote:

Just curious. What is the right value in your eyes? I'd take him in the 2nd. It's still boom or bust, but the upside is pretty high.

2-3.

I don't think it changes much at all. Keeping Brian Hartline has been part of the plan. He's a steady, solid receiver that has a good rapport with the young quarterback the team is building around. A complete make over of the wide receiving corps was never going to happen in one off season as it was.

Miami will still likely add a free agent receiver, and Greg Jennings (not Mike Wallace) is the best fit, and they are still likely to add a receiver early in the draft. Something tells me that no matter who they sign in free agency, Tavon Austin is a guy that Jeff Ireland and our scouts have a very high opinion of right now.

About Justin Hunter, it's like I said before...you go off the 2012 tape and he's not worthy of the pre-season hype surrounding him. Kind of like Michael Johnson in that way, coming out a few years ago.

But not unlike Michael Johnson, there's a potential catalyst for unlocking value. With Johnson it was if he could ever find a way to stop cramping during games and develop some stamina to where he could play full time and not get tired. With Justin Hunter it's the ACL injury. My issues with Hunter that made him not worthy of his billing in 2012 were that he wasn't creating a lot of separation, which put him in a lot of 50/50 ball scenarios (especially since Bray liked to throw high to him on purpose), and of course Hunter didn't come down with those consistently (hardly any receiver does). Then on top of that when it comes to his RAC ability, he's awful leggy and it seems like it takes him extra time to get those legs under him and start changing directions quickly, cutting, etc. I'm actually surprised he's as good as he is after the catch, with that kind of disadvantage.

But the thing that keeps me up at nights as I've said before is, what if the problem was just the ACL? Common wisdom maintains that in your first year off the ACL surgery you're still impacted, physically and mentally. Second year is when you're REALLY back. In his freshman year he only had 16 catches but 7 of them were touchdowns and he had 415 yards on those 16 catches (unbelievable 26 yard average in the SEC). Fast forward and he's a 14.8 yards per catch guy with a paltry 8.5 yards per target average. What if when he gets into 2013 he's just a different player physically, much closer to the player he was in 2010 when he had that 26 yards per catch average and 7 TDs on only 16 catches, much closer to the kind of player you'd GUESS he is based on the fact he's 6'4" and runs a 4.40 and can leap 40 inches vertically and 11+ feet on the broad jump.

I mean when you consider all of THAT...it's hard to bet against the man. You're looking for the potential for players to actually become that #1 guy everyone covets at the NFL level, the kind that scares the Jesus out of everyone. He has that pure potential. Hard to bet against it when it's what you need.

So with Brian Hartline in the fold it really wouldn't surprise me to see Jeff Ireland steer toward Justin Hunter in the 2nd round.

"ckparrothead wrote:

About Justin Hunter, it's like I said before...you go off the 2012 tape and he's not worthy of the pre-season hype surrounding him. Kind of like Michael Johnson in that way, coming out a few years ago.

But not unlike Michael Johnson, there's a potential catalyst for unlocking value. With Johnson it was if he could ever find a way to stop cramping during games and develop some stamina to where he could play full time and not get tired. With Justin Hunter it's the ACL injury. My issues with Hunter that made him not worthy of his billing in 2012 were that he wasn't creating a lot of separation, which put him in a lot of 50/50 ball scenarios (especially since Bray liked to throw high to him on purpose), and of course Hunter didn't come down with those consistently (hardly any receiver does). Then on top of that when it comes to his RAC ability, he's awful leggy and it seems like it takes him extra time to get those legs under him and start changing directions quickly, cutting, etc. I'm actually surprised he's as good as he is after the catch, with that kind of disadvantage.

But the thing that keeps me up at nights as I've said before is, what if the problem was just the ACL? Common wisdom maintains that in your first year off the ACL surgery you're still impacted, physically and mentally. Second year is when you're REALLY back. In his freshman year he only had 16 catches but 7 of them were touchdowns and he had 415 yards on those 16 catches (unbelievable 26 yard average in the SEC). Fast forward and he's a 14.8 yards per catch guy with a paltry 8.5 yards per target average. What if when he gets into 2013 he's just a different player physically, much closer to the player he was in 2010 when he had that 26 yards per catch average and 7 TDs on only 16 catches, much closer to the kind of player you'd GUESS he is based on the fact he's 6'4" and runs a 4.40 and can leap 40 inches vertically and 11+ feet on the broad jump.

I mean when you consider all of THAT...it's hard to bet against the man. You're looking for the potential for players to actually become that #1 guy everyone covets at the NFL level, the kind that scares the Jesus out of everyone. He has that pure potential. Hard to bet against it when it's what you need.

So with Brian Hartline in the fold it really wouldn't surprise me to see Jeff Ireland steer toward Justin Hunter in the 2nd round.

Hunter probably has the most inconsistent hands of the top rated receivers in the draft. I agree that his frame, speed, and athleticism is something everyone covets in the NFL, but they also want that ability to be able to consistently catch the football.

http://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2012/11/06/justin-hunter-focus-is-a-skill/

what irks me about Hunter is he seems to play like he thinks he's more of a playmaker after the catch than he actually is. It's like he's trying to be someone he's not and needs to just be Justin Hunter.