Draft Eligible Tailbacks

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by ckparrothead, Oct 25, 2011.

  1. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    There are, of course, more positions in the NFL than just quarterback. So I thought I might jump start a little discussion about one of the others, that being tailback.

    I've not made any attempts to mask my opinion of Reggie Bush. I don't think he's all that valuable a football player. I think he's an enigmatic player that presents certain qualities that entice you, but he is iron pyrite, fool's gold. He draws you in with those abilities and then hits you with his weaknesses and before you know it, you've wasted a lot of time, energy and snaps trying to figure out how to "make him work" before you realize you just can't. New Orleans realized this, they upgraded with Darren Sproles, and Sproles is currently two or three times better a football player than Reggie ever was with the Saints. That shows you how perfect a situation Reggie had in New Orleans, and yet he still couldn't perform. I loved when Jon Gruden went on a rant about how Reggie has to get himSELF into space. Gruden was absolutely right. The Dolphins have made plenty of efforts to get the ball to Reggie in space, to no avail. There were plenty of perfect examples this weekend. Get the ball out to Reggie in the flat, he gets tackled for like a 1 or 2 yard gain by the first responder. There you have it. The best function he has, is as a slot receiver or a decoy. But he's a tailback and there are drawbacks to using him that way. He's making 10x more money than he should and he needs to be cut at season's end.

    As for Daniel Thomas, jury is still out on him. I like a lot of what I've seen from him. But let's face the music, to date all he is, is a 4.0 yards per carry fumbler that can't stay healthy. That sounds harsh, but this is a harsh game, and your stock as a football player can go up or down in the blink of an eye especially at this early stage of your career. What I'm saying is it would be stupid to count out Daniel Thomas, and just as stupid to cound on Daniel Thomas. Therefore, I do not like the idea of limiting the focus of your studies on the tailback position to some arbitrary notions of what style of back 'complements' Daniel Thomas. First off, very few people who claim to know best how to 'complement' players with other players, actually do know how to do that. Secondly the very idea of finding a complementary back assumes you know for sure what you have already which is at this stage, premature.

    This is what I have seen from some of the tailbacks out there right now, in no particular order, but with a particular grouping. When I use the term "3V" or "2V" I am just referring to how far removed they are from High School. For instance, Ray Graham is a true junior, not a redshirt junior, and so that means he's eligible to come out but probably won't have his degree if that happens. On the other hand a 4V guy may be technically a junior but he's 4 years out of High School, may hear the clock ticking a little bit, may have his degree in hand, and may decide he needs to come out.

    Complete Backs

    Pittsburgh - Ray Graham (3V) - When I watch him play, the word I keep hearing in my head is 'potential'. His build is not much to look at right now, he looks like one of those 5'10" and 200 lbs types that you see out there, like a Jahvid Best. But, as you can see, he's only three years out of high school, and he should continue to grow physically. He runs with dynamite in his cleats, he's so explosive. His combination of ability to be both linear and lateral is scary. He's built like a linear player, the kind with a long body that can always fall or spring forward for extra yardage. But, he plays with such ideal pad level that he is able to spin, cut and bounce around like those guys you see that are short, very stocky and low to the ground, with their feet always churning, cutting different directions looking like a pinball. He has an athletic performance quality to him, which means he thinks and makes decisions and moves quickly. That can work for you and against you. It works for you when your instincts are on, and against you when they're wrong. But most often, it works for you, especially as you mature. Tremendous potential in the passing game. He consistently makes people miss in the open field. He's like LeSean McCoy and Jahvid Best all rolled up into one...hopefully without Best's injury/concussion issues.

    Mississippi State - Vick Ballard (4V) - Ballard is built more like a Curtis Martin and he plays like a Curtis Martin. He has a build that I suspect will come out about 5'10" and 220 lbs, which means he's just stocky enough to stay protected and to use his size, but he's not a battering ram. This is another player that plays with explosive feet and needs a lot of refinement. He has potential. He's very springy, likes to leap over people and hurdle forward for extra yards. He won't necessarily do that as much at the next level (though he could), but when I watch a guy like that I see the lower body explosion needed to mold into a great player. The thing he has that I love is a nose for the end zone and an awareness of the sticks. He has lateral agility, but not quite as much forward or linear ability/power as I would like. His pad level is great, and he can be a weapon in the passing game. He follows his blockers very well.

    Texas A&M - Cyrus Gray (4V) - Gray is built Ford tough. He has one of those Thomas Jones type builds, like a giant muscle, wound up nice and tight. He runs with real power. If you watch what he does when linebackers and defensive backs are trying to tackle him, you know that much. I would be surprised if his 5'10" and 200 lbs listing is accurate. I'd place the guy more at around 220 lbs, because that's how he plays. When Simon interviewed Oklahoma linebacker Tom Wort last year, Tom made it a point to bring up how good Cyrus Gray is and how hard he is for defenses to defend him. He is on this list because he's versatile. Short yardage should be a specialty for him, but he can also see the blocking and run to daylight, make cuts and run out into the open field. He has genuine tackle-breaking ability, can do it with power or agility. He can also throw the ball pretty darn good if you want to draw up a halfback option pass.

    Notre Dame - Cierre Wood (3V) - The first thing Cierre has going for him is speed. He can make big plays with his speed, turning corners that most other guys can't. He's built a little linearly, but his pad level is good and has been improving since last year, and he breaks through a lot of arm tackles. His vision is getting a lot better and he sees things more quickly, is able to cut before someone can get solid contact on him. He can catch the ball and be very dangerous to deal with in the passing game. I also like his effort and effectiveness blocking in the backfield. He's only a redshirt sophomore, technically able to come out, but with so much more room to grow. He's a play maker. What makes him a complete back to me instead of just a speed and complementary back is his consistent vision and ability to get linear and produce extra yards going forward.


    Role Players

    Cincinnati Isaiah Pead (4V) - Not unlike Cierre Wood, the first thing that jumps out at you about Pead is his speed and quickness. He looks small on the field, and plays kind of small a lot of the time too, but he will out sprint you or make a bunch of tiny cuts to kill you with that speed and quickness. The nice thing that he adds to that is every now and then he pinballs around and breaks like 3 or 4 tackles, and you're just not sure how he did that. But, this does not make a complete back, in my book. You get into situations where you need tougher yards with smaller holes, I don't know that Pead is going to get those for you. He's better at physically surprising you and breaking tackles in the open field than he is in between the tackles. But this is a guy that seems like he just moves at a whole different speed, in terms of quickness and running ability...and so I would value him as a role player at the next level.

    Florida Jeff Demps (4V) - 4.2 speed. Do I really need to say more? I do, of course. But seriously, Demps ran 100 meter dashes in the 10.2's even going back to High School. That's ridiculous, and even better, when you watch him on the field he LOOKS ridiculous, as in ridiculously faster than everyone out there. There are just plays that if you block even adequately, he's going to take for huge gains just by virtue of his speed and build, his willingness to run through traffic, etc. He's actually got a pretty good build too, and not bad vision. He's listed at 5'8" and 191 lbs, and that sounds about right. There's a reason he's averaged 7.6 yards per attempt in his career at Florida. He averaged 7.8 yards per attempt as a freshman, 7.5 yards per attempt as a sophomore, 6.0 yards per attempt as a junior and is currently averaging 8.3 yards per attempt as a senior. Just imagine that, a 6.0 yards per carry average is a DOWN year for this guy. Nobody is pretending this guy can be an every down load carrier...but then again, I look at his build, I see his vision in the hole, and I see his ability to stay balanced and break contact from his lower body...and it has me wondering. In the end, it will be his durability that probably prevents him being a true star at the next level, but I would still love him as a role player.

    Arkansas Dennis Johnson (4V) - He is still just a redshirt junior, and he might not come out...but he's been in college for four years and when Knile Davis gets healthy, he is likely to be the guy in 2012, and so Dennie Johnson may try and spin off his 2011 season into a run at the Draft. This is the third or fourth year I have had my eye on him. He is built very low to the ground, small but stocky. But don’t go thinking he doesn’t have power. He generates a lot of power from his legs, which are always churning, and so he always has the base under him needed to stiff-arm you into the dirt or break through your arm tackles. He constantly, constantly produces yards after contact. He looks very fast on the field and he breaks off big runs. He finally had another breakout performance against Ole Miss in the Razorbacks’ comeback victory. He spent most of last year injured, and he has spent a lot of time in his Arkansas career lower on the depth chart than he should be, possibly due to bad attitude and/or work ethic. But every time you see him run, you fall in love with him all over again as a potential scat back or role player at the next level, a Darren Sproles type.

    Oregon LaMichael James (4V) – The big question is would he come out after suffering a pretty gruesome injury this year. If he does, I think he fits right in with this group of potential play makers that might not be true stars at the next level because of physical limitations. This man is very, very fast. He runs extremely low to the ground and can make any cut you imagine. Because of his low pad level, he can minimize some of the hits he’ll take, but there’s no getting around the fact that he’s little and I think his 5’9” and 195 lbs listing is probably a little overstated. If you can get hold of him, you can squash him like a grape. I’m not sure I see Warrick Dunn in him because he has too much of an affinity for the open field. Dunn didn’t like the open field as much as people tend to think he did, he almost always cut into his blocking to try and stay protected from taking big shots from bigger, but just as explosive, athletes. That’s the danger. Everyone is explosive at the next level but not everyone is tiny.


    Undecided

    Boise State Doug Martin (4V) – I like his build a lot, and there are times when he breaks contact so well that you have to be interested in him. He also looks pretty fast when he breaks out into the open. But, there’s a muchness that is missing from him, that makes me wonder if he’s going to look like just another guy at the next level. He could absolutely improve and play very well as an NFL guy, but I am just having trouble seeing it.


    If I didn’t list a guy, it’s because either I haven’t watched much of him, or I have and I don’t like him. Although in the cases of Trent Richardson and Lamar Miller, I just believe they’re considered too good of prospects for Miami to be considering. I believe Miami will end up picking in the top 4 of the NFL Draft and I have no interest in a tailback that high, and I am not sure if Richardson or Miller would make it to the #33 thru #36 area.
     
  2. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Love Richardson and Miller. I really like Doug Martin. I'm a fan of Ballard as well. He's not going to go high either.
     
  3. BlameItOnTheHenne

    BlameItOnTheHenne Taking a poop

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    Davie
    Miller is better than Richardson. That's my humble, homerish opinion.

    /both are great backs
     
  4. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Big Ray Graham fan here.
     
  5. mroz

    mroz Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I have a man crush on Miller... there I said iT! :)
     
  6. mroz

    mroz Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    CK... when are you going to preview the TE's... I mean since we dont have one!
     
  7. BlameItOnTheHenne

    BlameItOnTheHenne Taking a poop

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    Davie

    Same here...still holding out hope he doesn't declare.
     
  8. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Too bad Knile Davis had to go and get injured.
     
  9. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Hypothetically if Miami is the worst team in the league and gets the #1 pick in the draft, thus having the #1 pick in each round, with all of Miami's current needs, which round do you draft a runningback?
     
  10. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    no sooner than the 4th IMO and only if he represents tremendous value b/c Daniel Thomas is a stud who's currently leading all rookie RBs & WRs in yards from scrimmage per game with 87 (11 more than AJ Green).

    IMO 1-3 should be (in no particular order) QB, Oline, and BPA at either TE, S, ILB, pass rusher, or another Oline.
     
  11. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I wouldn't have a round targeted. But considering I have the guys grouped and graded where I do, I think that Vick Ballard and Dennis Johnson present the most value in terms of me liking them more than the rest of the teams might. I consider Vick Ballard to be a potential every down back, and Dennis Johnson to be a potential play maker as a part time back, similar to LaMichael James...and so if Vick Ballard is still there in the 4th and Dennis Johnson still there in the 6th then I'm buying.
     
    ssmiami likes this.

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