Philbin also said, "We need to address the explosive play element on both sides of the ball. We've got to create more, we have to eliminate more from our opponent's play." and specifically in regards to turnovers added, "Part of the takeway issue is getting interceptions and fumble recoveries. But I don't know (that) it's isolated to the receiver or DB positions". http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/n...ook-coach-joe-philbin-wants-to-add-playmakers
The thing is, what a #1 WR is supposed to bring to the table is just that, speed and big play ability. Semantics and labels such as #1 WR aside, that's exactly what they need. To me the obvious solution is to attack this crying need in both FA and the draft, but we'll see what happens. I still think that a 2nd rd WR is more likely that getting one in the 1st, but you never know.
Do "limiting explosive plays", "getting interceptions" and "fumble recoveries" speak specifically to defensive end? Or do they speak to defensive end inasmuch as those elements can be ascribed to every position on the football field?
Explosive plays. That's the biggest aspect that separated RT's rookie season from that of Luck, GIII, and Wilson. Luck had 9 TD passes that went 20 yards or more. Wilson had 9 TDs as well. Griffin had 7 touchdowns in only 35 attempts. RT had 3 TD passes that went 20 yards or more. Only Wilson and Griffin had a higher accuracy percentage on 20+ yard throws that RT as well. It would probably surprise some to know that Miami scored a touchdown on a higher percentage of their redzone opportunities than Indianapolis with Andrew Luck did. The problem was, Miami was in the bottom 5 in the league in redzone scoring opportunities period. You have to have big plays to be an effective offense these days. There is a new defensive stat that is out in the college football world. It actually started in the SEC, I believe. This stat is called "slow grind". It's how many plays the offense runs per one touchdown scored. The general philosophy is that it is difficult to sustain 12-14 play drives without making a mistake such as an interception, fumble, or stupid penalty that keeps you from getting into the endzone. So, the defensive philosophy many SEC schools employ is to limit big plays and force the offense to have to get 4-5 yards a chunk against your defense. I think Joe Philbin is referencing this philosophy.
First, drafting a "raw" QB vs having previously drafted a 4 year starter at QB is exactly on point in regards to developing players. Second, the Pat White example was also brought up. More importantly I cited how player development was cited as one of the goals and differences during the coaching search and as one of Philbin's primary strengths and the reason he was chosen. This was emphasized by both Ross and Ireland. You can ignore this if you choose, but most would recognize his reputation for player development as one of the primary reasons Philbin is our coach now. And most would agree that Parcells, despite his lip service, rarely focused on player development.
Pass rush and secondary are the two areas that I would say those terms speak to. If you run a 4-3 then DE is the biggest part of your pass rush and a much bigger element than can be ascribed to every other position on the field.
Except that the "raw" status of Ryan Tannehill was pretty much a myth primarily perpetuated by people who don't look at things very closely. Especially relative to your average drafted quarterback nowadays coming out of a college spread. Every quarterback coming out of college ever in the history of ever is "raw" to some degree. Ryan Tannehill was more polished and experienced in the offense he would be running in the NFL than any quarterback outside of Andrew Luck...and perhaps Russell Wilson now that I think on it since he ran a WCO at NC State. You didn't bring up the Pat White example. And the Pat White example would seem to hold a hell of a lot more relevance if he had enough NFL talent to catch on elsewhere. When the Dolphins cut him, he was forced to switch sports to baseball. You say that's them showing a lack of patience? Hah. OK. Yes you cited how player development was a stated goal in hiring Philbin. Just like I cited how player development was a STATED GOAL in hiring Bill Parcells. Remember all the crap about the strength and conditioning program and how he would make it over in order to develop our players better, etc? You can ignore this if you choose ... yadda yadda yadda. You're not actually offering evidence. You're just saying things louder and more forcefully. It's like we're at the RNC.
That's just an offshoot of your running theory that a mediocre defensive end is better than a pro bowl linebacker. Essentially if anyone says "we have to play better defense" you're going to jump up and say "See, proof that they're going for a defensive end".
The thing is, Parcells is also the guy that coined the phrase "If they don't bite as pups, they won't bite." Personally, I do not feel Miami had good player development under Sparano's staff, and that was largely because his staff was not a very good teaching staff by and large. Some guys did develop, such as Cam Wake, and others simply didn't. Look at Donald Thomas. For whatever reason, he was jettisoned quickly from Miami and has now been a starter in New England for 2 years now.
Miami often failed in their player development efforts while Sparano was coach. Unfortunately for rafael that's not the question here. He's proposing that Miami is going to change their Draft strategy because they have now changed their commitment level to player development. I don't think they've changed their commitment level at all. Just (hopefully) the effectiveness.
What do you see in Vernon that gives you faith in him as a pass rusher. Specifically. I disagree entirely, btw.
The Dolphins first two draft picks in the 2012 Draft with Joe Philbin as head coach played pretty much every snap of pretty much every game. And I'm supposed to believe it's "obvious" that their commitment level to player development has changed to where they'll take a player high that they don't intend to be any more than a role player for the time being. Riiiiight.
Which is why, as a DE, a guy like Ansah is more Ireland's new type... in that he immediately gives you a strongside end who can play riun downs, but still has a ton of upside. Problem is, he is not value at #12 overall. I think we miss out on Ansah because of where his pick will fall. I don't see Jeff moving back up into the 1st to get him. Hope I am wrong, however. I would like Banks at 12, in terms of talent and value... but Rafael has made some good points about CB's not being impactful enough to be worthy of that high a pick, usually. With Banks slow speed, I question drafting him that high.. with one proviso: if he posts a great shuttle time, I would consider it. Historically, the great CBs either have great 40 times OR at least an amazing shuttle time to make up for it. If you have neither, you're likely to flop at the NFL level.
I don't think we need to narrow the scope, no? IMO we should be looking for guys on defense who can make s*** happen, period, and to be honest I'd have to put Ansah high on that list b/c of how many ways he can disrupt a game as well as make the kinds of hair-tingling plays that fire up a defense. Honey badger needs to be on that list. Devonte Holloman (safety to linebacker convert). Bacarri Rambo (16 INTs) and Phillip Thomas. Milliner, Banks, and Rhodes. Gerald Hodges. Rambo & Jones would make a nice left-right safety duo; could be something to pairing two Bulldog boys together.
HOw does this defensive approach jibe with TOP and keeping defenses fresh? I'm curious. Also, do these defenses tend to have more turnovers or fewer? You'd think more because they have more plays and opportunities to make them. But you'd think less because the defense is being less aggressive, giving up undernath catches rather than probably jamming, blitzing, jumping routes, etc. interested to know TOP and turnover stats for the 'slow grind' defense versus a normal one, versus an aggressive 3-and-out philosophy one that is willing to give up the occasional big play.
Love the sound of that. Sometimes I feel like we won't end up drafting a single one of these guys we've spent months talking about and jonesing for.
Fully agree. Which is why I don;t see us taking any DE that can't play the run with power. Must be a three down player to go high. Banks. Maybe Cordarrelle (I doubt it and hope not). Or a trade.
I agree with you that Ansah seems right up their alley IF they let Starks walk. Still not sure on that. I disagree about corners not mattering anymore. There's a reason they're amongst the highest paid players in football.
If it's just you and me? Sure. I hear ya. But if we're trying to figure out what is actually likely for the Dolphins to do, I think that's where you do need to narrow the scope a bit and hone in on their tendencies.
That makes sense, but at the same time, when taking into account Philbin's statement, perhaps they're looking to change tendencies or at least tweak 'em a bit.
I think it shows that TOP is not really that important and doesn't really effect winning much at all. The top two slow grind defenses in the SEC were Florida and Alabama. Florida was 1st in the SEC in interceptions, and Alabama was tied for 3rd with LSU. Mississippi State was second in the SEC in interceptions.
I think it all depends on the perspective. IMO you could look at him as a player who, under normal circumstances, would never make it to us at 12 had he been playing as long as everyone else in the draft, so in that regard, along with the reduced rookie wage scale, I think we could view him as being outstanding value. I look at his inexperience as a blessing b/c that's the only thing that might push him far enough down to us.
I only wish Solai was better at what he did than Starks was at what he did.. so I could WANT Starks to leave, Odrick to move inside, and a great new DE to take the spot opposite Wake. But the truth is, Starks is too good to let go (not 2008 good, but still, quite good). I am at the point weher eI want to get rid of Soliai, have Starks put some weight on again, move him into Soliai's role but with move active movement and penetration, and move Odrick inside. Let Soliai go and bring in a damned DE. Re: CB, yeah. I'm not sure where I fall on that. I AM sure that if Banks has a slow shuttle time and slow 40 time I steer clear (unless the plan is to make him put on five pounds and give him chris Clemons' job. Banks has played Safety before.)
I don't see how. He wants more play making ability on offense, more takeaways on defense, and for his defense to eliminate big plays. None of that screams, ok we're going to relax our standards for getting our high picks to play a lot immediately.
What's Missisippi State's defensive philosophy. Also, what type of players are necessary to take an effective 'slow grind' approach?
Personally I think the Dolphins need to move Odrick back inside AND keep Starks. There are snaps enough to be had for all three guys and Odrick is still on his rookie contract. You only need to worry about resource allocation once Odrick is coming up for a new contract and at that point either Soliai or Starks would be looking at being let go. Or Odrick if he never came on like you wanted. There's nothing wrong with having talent and keeping everyone fresh. I don't have anything against a role player at #12 overall. I think Jeff Ireland does.
But I don;t see Ireland planning that way, do you? I see his head working like this.. "Odrick was a first round pick, I need snaps and production from him." If Ireland ws NOT going to move Odrick inside unless Starks or Soliai left... would you want one to go? And if so, which one?
I don't want either Starks or Soliai to go. They're just better football players than Jared Odrick. I'd rather replace Odrick if it came to that. But how do you choose between one thing Jeff Ireland won't do and another thing Jeff Ireland won't do?
I agree with this..... or, if anything, mix it up a little and have Odrick spend more time inside while still taking advantage of the scheme flexibility he offers. Perhaps if Ireland views it from a "number of snaps the player sees" or "impact plays per snap" mentality, he'd be more inclined to take a guy who's a role player his rookie year.
You replace Jeff Ireland. But that's not happening, so we need to accept we will not have a great new pass rush end added this offseason. That's the long and short of it. Which is why having Odrick, Soliai and these 3-4 players lingering is ****ing us up. I'd gladly move Odrick if he had value in a trade, but playing him as a 4-3 end has not highlighted his 3-4 end abilities, nor his 4-3 rush DT abilities (as you've said, he is not fresh). Odrick lacks trade value. But I think you can get a 3rd or 4th for Soliai. Use that to draft a big run-stopping body for short yardage situations, goalline and such. Ireland is more invested in Odrick's success than Soliai's, in terms of a reflection on him. Do you not think Odrick could put on ten pounds and hold up well inside?
I don't see any player in the draft that is a value at #12, would actually make a big impact for us, and who Jeff ireland would want to pick there. And that's a problem.
Mississippi State's defense was a stark contrast to what it was under Manny Diaz. They went from being a very aggressive defense to a very passive one. Chris Wilson, who is now the DL coach at Georgia, believed in the slow grind defense. However, Mississippi State could not muster a pass rush with their front four at all, and Wilson was clueless when it came to figuring out when to blitz and who to blitz. A lot of the time, Wilson would blitz Banks and leave their best receiver one on one with Nickoe Whitley at safety. Mississippi State was mostly a zone coverage team that occasionally played some man. Their base coverage was a cover three, but they played a lot of soft cover 2 and did some pattern reading stuff out of it.
Value at #12 to me would be Ansah, Werner, Milliner, and possibly Richardson. If one of those aren't there I can see us offering a trade back that represents too much value to pass up, like 8-10 spots for a 3rd rounder. I pray Wright is right and two QBs go in the top 10.
When Kevin Coyle sits here and says that Jared Odrick going to defensive tackle wouldn't be the best thing for him, he may be saying more than we think. He may essentially be saying that Odrick doesn't REALLY fit anywhere...in particular. And that could be why there was recent news that the Dolphins reached out to Randy Starks about a contract, where before the Dolphins front office had seemed cold on the idea. I'm sure there had to be a lot of meetings taking place after the season was done, sharing of ideas between coaching staff and front office about where guys fit and what guys have a future, etc. There's a possibility that out of those meetings, came a renewed commitment to bringing back Randy Starks. Which IMO is not a good thing for Jared Odrick.
http://www.miamidolphins.com/news/a...or-Draft/f36bfb6c-4081-447b-9849-1151043dba5f So, from the horse's mouth prior to last year's draft: 1. We expect that our first picks will be someone that will contribute immediately, if not start right off the bat (Ryan Tannehill, Johnathan Martin, Olivier Vernon). 2. They take their developmental guys in the 4th rounds on (i.e. Lamar Miller, Josh Kaddu, Rishard Matthews....etc). 3. They will stack their board horizontally, so if a group of players is rated close together and are available, they will draft the best guy who is a fit at a need position. In the same sense, if someone from a higher tier falls to them for some reason, they may draft him regardless of need if they are a fit for the team.
