Dorsey, Long, etc...Does it really matter??

Actually, since we are hyjacking. I would take either Chris Long or Dorsey first, then look fore the best Lb on the board..then jump to TE and maybe CB.
I think we DO pick up Flozell the Hotel in Free Agency, and with so many weaknesses, WR isnt at the top of my wish list. Although...Antonio Bryant is looking like he is gonna become a FA.. I would JUMP all over that kid. He has been very quiet behind Fitz and Boldin here in Arizona, but has the potential to be an absolute STUD wr

 

Sounds good to me! We could use a wide receiver with size a la James Hardy or Limas Sweed. I see some linebackers coming in our future as well.

 

Can't wait for the draft. I think the Tuna will try everything to acquire more picks by trading down, and I also could see him shipping away some veteran players (possibly JT or Zach)....then we start rebuilding. I saw a link which showed the records of teams following a ONE win season and if Parcells does his job we should be in the thick of things soon.

 

This site says 1 sack. http://scoreboards.aol.com/football/ncaaf/player/79872/player.aspx.

According to ESPN insider, he had a combined 6 sacks in his first 3 seasons (2004-06). http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=11996&univLogin02=stateChanged

This is supported by the LSU website -- "Enters senior season with 110 career tackles, 14.5 tackles for loss and six sacks." http://www.lsusports.net/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=5200&ATCLID=174923&Q_SEASON=2006

The 12 sacks you are referring to were in his junior year in HIGH SCHOOL. I assume you'll excuse me if I don't put too much stock in that.

 

You are correct. I was looking at the wrong numbers for sacks. Still sacks are not the determining factor for a DT. Dorsey is a monster at crushing a line and bouncing the run to the outside....which is what you draft a dt for.

 

It's true that sacks aren't the main criterion for DTs, but that's what you pay big money for. Run stuffers are not No. 1 overall picks. Never have been. I would venture to say that there has never been a DL selected No. 1 overall (or maybe even top 3) who did not have at least 6-7 sacks in a season. For that may matter, there may never have been one with less than 10 sacks in a season. In 4 years, Dorsey's best was 3. He's a good player and a 1st rounder for sure, but not, IMO, a No. 1 overall pick.

 

and if sacks is your barometer, that is unfortunate.

I bet there have been SEVERAL Dlinemen taken in the top 5 with impressive sack numbers that never amounted to jack squat in the pros.

Glenn Dorsey flat out DOMINATES not only onlinemen, but double teams....and we are talking about some very decent Olines he is seeing in the SEC>

He might not be who we take first, but if we dont, the only other player I would want at this juncture is Chris Long.

 

I am pretty sure you mean Bryant Johnson, as Anonio Bryant is nothing special, and I think the 49ers were the last team he was on.

Bryant Johnson and Gibril Wilson are the two players I have had my heart set on since before this season even began. I would love to be able to get either, but I'd be ecstatic if we managed to nab both.

 

Thanks Pete. yes indeed Bryant Johnson (LOL at myself) Antonio Bryant is a TURD and hope he never wears a phins jersey!!!


I would like those two and Flozell the Hotel. Then FA would be as good as we have had in a decade.

 

Russell Maryland

 

You just don't spend the money necessary for a No. 1 overall pick on a guy who can't get to the QB, just as you don't do it for an OG, a possession receiver, a blocking tight end, a fullback, etc. No one has ever done it and the Fins should not start now. Sure, there have been guys with big sack numbers in college who didn't pan out, but it surely doesn't follow that since Dorsey does not have big sack numbers, he will.

 

You are narrowing your focus WAY too much. The guy you draft at #1 is ideally supposed to be a gamechanging player. You can't pigeonhole the way a player has to be dominating.

If we can get a guy that destroys the inside running games of our opponents for the next ten years? Then yes he is absolutely worth the #1.

 

Okay, and on the flip-side. If he were to record 3 sacks tonight, does that automatically put him as the first pick?

 

As kiper said, the guy is a force to be reckoned with, he takes double and triple teams to stop him sometimes, and if he can do that in the pros it free's up your DE's to get the QB.

That is a force I would be willing to pay for.

 

I said it in another thread. The single best trait for Dorsey is that he is a facilitator. When he is going he raises the effectiveness of the entire front seven both in terms of intensity and freeing up people because you have to dedicate so many resources to blocking him. And also keep in mind this guy is a leader. This is a future defensive captain here. A guy who motivates his teammates and can call you out if you're dogging it. Dorsey brings a lot of intangibles to the table.

 

Over the past 10 years there have been 8 DTs taken in the top 10.

2007-
Amobi Akoye – 10th overall
Best college year: 55 tackles, 8 sacks
Rookie year: 32 tackles, 5.5 sacks
Best Pro year: (same as above)
Notes: Rookie still

2003-
Dewayne Robertson – 4th overall
Best college year: 48 tackles, 5 sacks
Rookie year: 43 tackles, 1.5 sacks
Best Pro year: 51 tackles, 4 sacks (2007)
Notes: Averages about 3 sacks a year. Left college after junior year.

Kevin Williams – 9th overall
Best college year: 61 tackles, 7 Sacks
Rookie year: 10.5 sacks
Best Pro year: 11.5 sacks (2004)
Notes: Only 4 sacks in 2005, 5 in 2006.

2002-
Ryan Sims – 6th overall
Best college year: Not sure, 14 sacks in 43 games though (33 starts).
Rookie year: Nothing of note.
Best Pro year: 39 tackles, 3 sacks.
Notes: 6 sacks in 74+ games.

John Henderson – 9th overall
Best college year: 20.5 sacks as 3 year starter, 165 career tackles.
Rookie year: 53 tackles, 6.5 sacks
Best Pro year: (same as above)
Notes: 24 sacks in 95 games, Outland Trophy Winner (as is Glenn Dorsey).

2001-
Gerard Warren – 3rd overall
Best college year: 159 career tackles, 9.5 sacks in 35 games (22 starts).
Rookie year: 61 tackles, 5 sacks
Best Pro year: 32 tackles, 5.5 sacks (2003)
Notes: Only 221 tackles, 26 sacks in 103 games.

2000-
Corey Simon – 6th overall
Best college year: 84 tackles, 4 sacks as senior. 193 tackles, 11 sacks over career.
Rookie year: 74 tackles, 9.5 sacks
Best Pro year: (same as above)
Notes: 32 sacks in 95 career games.

1997-
Darrell Russell – 2nd overall
Best college year:
Rookie year:
Best Pro year:
Notes: 28.5 sacks in 83 games, but 20 sacks between 98-99.


Dorsey has comparable sack numbers in college to everyone except Henderson. However, like Henderson, Dorsey won the Outland Trophy for a reason- because he was the best interior linemen in the country. Whether he rushes the passer as good as any other DTs should not be a question, as all you need to do is ask if he was the best DT in the country all year. And even playing on a hurt knee, the answe is yes.

And it possible he gets more sacks as a pro then he did in college, just look at Corey Simon and Kevin Williams. And looks like Dewayne Robertson is doing pretty well for himself, even though he rarely gets sacks, and he was 4th overall.

 

There are some very good (and some not so good) players on that list. But the point is, I wouldn't take a single one of them with the No. 1 overall pick. Would anyone ever think about trading the No. 1 overall pick for any one of those guys?


BTW, you left off Johnathan Sullivan (No. 6 overall in 2003)

 

Who are you going to take then? McFadden and then trade Brown for cents on the dollar? Take a QB far too high and waste Beck? Draft Chris Long (the best alternative choice)? Pay huge money for Jake Long to play RT for you?

I'm so sold on Dorsey that I'd prefer to not even go for a 3-4 defense if Dorsey requires that to succeed. I know he can play three technique in the 3-4, but I'm even willing to go to a large 4-3 shoot the gaps defense that we had something similar to in 2005.

 

If we stay at No. 1, I'd sooner use it on Chris Long or Vernon Gholston. As I said, on the DL, getting to the QB is what you pay the big bucks for and those guys have shown the ability, at least in college, to do it.

 

Man, I watched Gholston with great aniticipation last night...no thanks, I will pass.

I think that we really only have 2 choices, Dorsey or Chris Long. To be honest, I watched Dorsey get owned by a single blocker plenty of times last night...

 

That happens to the best of them. Even the best DLs only truly beat their man on a small percentage of plays. Again, I'm not saying Dorsey isn't good for what he is, I'm just saying you don't use the No. 1 pick on what he is. To do that will instantly make him the top paid DT in the NFL by a country mile. Fromt he best info that I've seen the top paid DTs make around $6-7 million per year (average over course of contract). Two years ago, Mario Williams got a 6 yr., $54 million deal, so this year one could expect it to be around 6 yrs., $60 million (I'm skipping last year because the top pick was a QB, which demands a premium). A $10 million/yr. deal would pay Dorsey 50% more than the best and most proven DTs in the NFL. While sacks aren't everything, etc., even if he triples his college sack production from last year and gets 3 next year, I'm not happy about paying $10 million per year for that.