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Dolphins to name Mark Duffner LB Coach

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by PhinGeneral, Jan 20, 2014.

  1. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    So Duffner knows Philbin too well to properly function as the LB coach? Are you aware of how ridiculous that sounds?

    Did David and Mike Shula also know Don too well to properly function as asst coaches back when their dad hired them? Talk about nepotism or cronyism. Did you berate Shula for hiring his sons back in the day?
     
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  2. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    So because he is now 60, his ability as a coach is definitely on the decline?
     
  3. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    So anyone Philbin knows cannot possibly help the team get better?
     
  4. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    The Ireland Haters Guild need an outlet for their hate masturbation, now that Ireland is gone.
     
  5. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    how dare he hire someone that he's familiar with?


    seriously guys... all this over a linebacker coach.
     
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  6. dolfan32323

    dolfan32323 ty xphinfanx

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    Let's hope this man is a miracle worker.
     
  7. NaboCane

    NaboCane Banned

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    No, by all means. Let's hire MORE guys based on familiarity instead of merit.

    Because that has worked out SOOOO well for the franchise since JJ foisted Wannstedt on us. But in particular, it worked SOOO well the last couple years with Philbin's hires.

    Hell, let's bring ALL the sons-in-law and old cronies together. A golden opportunity arises to replace the position coach in an area in which we SUCKED last season? Nah, why go search for someone who can take our high-priced talent to a higher level, let's just reach out for what's comfortable and hire a guy we worked with 30 years ago.

    And hey, let's not stop there; let's switch to the 5-2 on D, and the wishbone on O!
     
  8. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    I'm skeptical of this hire simply because it was a lateral move. The Jags had to okay the interview process and unless he really wanted to be here and Bradley just wanted to do right by him, I wonder why the Jaguars of all teams would let a perceived good coach walk.
     
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  9. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    You'd think folks here have never seen coaching hires before. Every god damn coach in the league hires people they know. Lets not act like Philbin is the only one.
     
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  10. CitizenSnips

    CitizenSnips hmm.

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    its not even coaching, its life.

    "its not what you know, it's who you know"

    has anyone else heard this before?
     
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  11. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    Good news in one respect, did not hire him for gm position. Dodged the bullet there.
     
  12. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    Nabo. Honest question here.

    Let's just remove the fact that he some connection with Philbin (since I'm assuming that's not your only nor main reason for not liking him as a hire).

    Why do you not like this hire?
     
  13. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    It could be that their organization is a mess as well, but people don't know or care due to the ineptitude of the Jags over recent years.

    Just a theory on my part.
     
  14. 77FinFan

    77FinFan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    This is the first time you have mentioned merit. That's a good place for a discussion. Why don't you start there.
     
  15. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Virtually all coaches hire people for their staff that they are familiar with. Why can't Duffner be a worthy hire based on his resume'? Just because he worked with Philbin before he cannot possibly have been hired for any other reason? Did you complain so vociferously when Don hired David and Mike for his staff? From the first staff he put together in Miami, Don hired guys who had worked with him before. Carl Taseff and Don went all the way back to when they played together at John Carroll. Did you ever criticize Don for hiring a crony? Or do you discriminate when it comes to who gets criticized for cronyism?

    Apparently Lazor is not a crony, so we cannot berate Philbin for hiring a crony there. So instead let's get on his case for hiring an OC who have never help that position before in the NFL.
     
    PhinGeneral likes this.
  16. invid

    invid Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    A lot of pissing and moaning going on in here.

    The only direction to go with the linebacking unit is up.
     
  17. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Maybe his contract with the Jags expired ?
     
  18. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't mind the hire. He clearly has been around the block.

    I just don't have faith in Joe Philbin to hire the right people. I dunno maybe the coaches will do much better with players that fit their schemes with the new GM hiring.

    I just feel like anything he brings in, qualified or not, hasn't worked out. Now maybe that'll change? Hope so.
     
  19. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

  20. OkiePhin

    OkiePhin Well-Known Member

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    Maybe he just wanted to leave or didn't gel with other staff there. Who knows? If I had a guy working for me that wanted to go elsewhere I would let him go. Not a whole lot of good to me if he doesn't want to be here..
     
  21. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

  22. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    I for one don't buy that Philbin hired so many familiars who also just so happened to be the most qualified for the job. He clearly didn't do it with:
    -Mike Sherman

    -Zac Taylor [Sherman's Son in Law whom 1 scout noted is clearly not cut out for the job and is holding Tannehill back]

    -Ken O'Keefe [Philbin's old OC when he was an OL coach at Iowa. Philbin gave him his first NFL job as a WR coach despite not having anything to do with the position since he played it in college in the 70's, and a Miami receiver stated he learned less from O'Keefe than the Assistant WR coach]

    -Charlie Bullen [ex Iowa guy who's only prior "job" was an Iowa Graduate Assistant in 2011 before Philbin hired him as Defensive Assistant in 2012, and then promoted to Asst Defensive Line coach in 2013 even though he never coached or played the position]

    -Jim Turner is still up in the air.

    -Ben Johnson, our Assistant QB coach, has probably gotta be in the mix somehow considering his only prior "job" was a Graduate Assistant at Boston College in 2011 before becoming Philbin's Offensive Assistant Coach last year and now Assistant QB Coach this year. Wonderful, two QB coaches and the greatest amount of combined experience they bring to the table is playing the position in college. Yay.

    -and now we have Duffner whom the defensive minded Gus Bradley apparently thinks so highly of that he's willing to let him accept the lateral move.
    Daryl Smith was a good player in Jacksonville but then suddenly went off the hizzle in Baltimore with career highs in tackles, sacks, INTs, and passes deflected. 2007 2nd rounder Justin Durant disappointingly failed to develop under Duffner.... and ditto for 2006 3rd rounder Clint Ingram who looked promising early as a rookie but then never developed into anything special and was later cut. 2008 5th rounder Thomas Williams was cut after his rookie season. 7th rounder Chad Nkang was out of the league in two years. I believe that's all the draft picks Duffner had a chance to work with. None exceeded expectations and most failed to meet them, and that's how many Jaguar fans feel about him. Jags resorted to spending $42 million on Posluszny to bring an experienced 4 year vet to address the position b/c they couldn't do it in house.



    And FTR, I could care less what other people around the league may or may not do as it pertains to their hiring inclinations. I care only about what Miami does and what gives us the greatest chance for success, and Philbin utilizing his head coaching powers to maximize the capacity of his steam room isn't a part of that equation.
     
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  23. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Jaguars forum said it was a lateral move.... and questioned Duffner's ability as a coach b/c it was approved by Bradley.
     
  24. cdz12250

    cdz12250 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The Jacksonville Jaguars. 23rd ranked defense in the NFL. 24th against the run, allowing an average of 131.8 yards rushing per game.
    A tad worse than our defense this season, ranked 20th in the NFL, 21st against the run, allowing an average of 124.9 yards rushing per game.
    Once again, we go to a perennially losing organization for a coaching hire.
    A coach who was allowed to leave a crappy team for a lateral hire. He's going to fix our linebacking problems.
    Normally I would say the organization knows better, and that inside knowledge prevails over common sense, but not after the last ten years.
    We never learn.
     
  25. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    If he was a bad coach, then why didn't Bradley just fire him?
     
  26. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No, but if Duffner is not the best possible hire but rather the one that they know the best, it's a bad thing.

    I didn't have an opinion on the sons of Shula because I was too young. Mike Shula I don't think really counts as nepotism, both times he was on the Dolphins staff it appears he was essentially demoted from his previous position another team. David Shula certainly seems like he could be, especially considering his relative lack of merit and him coming into the league with the Dolphins, but ultimately, that's OK when it isn't most of your staff.
     
  27. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I did not read about the 1 scout who said Taylor is not a capable QB coach. Where did you read that?

    As for O'Keefe, I'm not crazy about the guy either, but being an OC did have something to do with WRs, since all the offense falls under the purview of the OC. I won't pretend to know how hands on Iowa's OC would be with their WRs. Maybe a little, maybe hardly any.

    You forgot Coyle on the list. Johnson is a probable, so I guess they offset. Counting interns, Marco Rivera has a connection, I don't think Jeff Burris does. That is 7 out of 22 assistant coaches. Does not seem like a lot to me. Probably one of the lower totals around the league for pct of cronies on a staff. If only cronies are allowed in the steam room, I think Philbin should have enough room. :)
     
  28. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Should be OK with Philbin then. By the list phinsational made, with my one correction, it comes to about 7 of 22 who could qualify as so called cronies.
     
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  29. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Perhaps Bradley would have fired him or was going to and that's why he tolerated the transfer. After all, he was previously fired in Green Bay once Sherman was no longer there to save him. Who else did we interview?.... or did we skip that process and instead choose Sherman's close friend and Philbin's chum in GB whom Sherman [strike]repayed the favor for[/strike] hired in GB to be his LB coach after Duffner previously hired Sherman at Holy Cross? After being fired in Green Bay, Duffner interviewed for the Jets vacancy and didn't get it, and then was hired by the hapless Jags. So we're now stuck with a guy Green Bay didn't want, NY didn't want, and whom a true defensive minded coach, Bradley, was either prepared to fire or believed little enough in that he signed his transfer papers. I know it doesn't involve coaching linebackers but Duffner was also fired by Maryland and then later replaced in 2003 in Cincy by new HC and linebacker specialist Marvin Lewis after Duffner's defense ranked last in the NFL, and the Jaguars defense ranked 24th or worse in scoring in 4 of the past 5 years. I don't see any hints from his past to suggest this is a great hire who will develop our struggling linebackers and future draftees.

    What did Duffner do with the drafted linebackers in Cincy?
    -'97 1st rounder, 13th overall, Reinard Wilson- bust.
    -'98 1st rounder, 17th overall, Brian Simmons- Adequate starter but could argue was an underachiever. No Pro Bowl appearances.
    -'98 1st rounder, 13th overall, Takeo Spikes. Hard to mess that one up. Regardless, 5 years in Cincy and no honors. Then back-to-back Pro Bowls the following 2 years in Buffalo.
    -'98 3rd rounder, Steve Foley- failed to develop into a reliable starter.
    -'01 6th rounder, Riall Johnson- 10 tackles in 3 years in Cincy, then out of football.

    Duffner did such a good job with the linebackers in Cincy that they spent a 1st rounder, 2nd rounder, and 2 3rd rounders on the position in 2004-05.... which has gotta be frustrating after having invested 3 first rounders in '97-98.
     
  30. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    and who knows, perhaps having Sherman here last year and Philbin still here [since they both seem to run things the way- preferring people to keep their mouths shut, to listen but not be heard] is preventing qualified NFL assistant coaches from wanting to come here just as Sherman drove them away and pissed them off in Green Bay and that's the reason why we have a staff full of coaches with no prior NFL experience including some graduate assistants. See below, which is quite a telling tale IMO.

    If Philbin likes his players, even the ones who want to take on leadership roles, to keep their mouths shut in tyrannical control-freak fashion, then why would he feel differently about his coaching staff under him? In the least, there's gotta be some carry over.
     
  31. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    I cannot believe we are having this discussion over the hiring of a LB coach. Philbin hires some guys that he knows and is comfortable with. So what? It's obviously not uncommon and it's not like he's going over to the local YMCA looking for random people to hire.
     
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  32. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Even 7 is too many if they're not qualified or qualified enough for the job.

    Besides, 7 could be deemed a lot. Have you seen/heard Philbin? How many close friends do you think he can have around the league considering his limited exposure [only working in GB] and my previous post about how most of Sherman's assistants hated Sherman? If Philbin & Sherman are buds and share similar coaching styles and personalities [like wanting others to listen but not be heard], then isn't it possible that Philbin, too, has a small quaint list of friends and a larger list not wanting to work for him? Not to mention, his "crony" has to be available. I mean, he and Sherman wanted to bring in their buddy Duffner last year but couldn't do so. What if his 3 best buds in Green Bay were all Oline coaches or some other position that overlaps with a current crony he already employs? We gonna bring all of 'em in and double or triple up on the positions just to give them jobs?

    Outside of Green Bay and 4 years in Iowa, how many NFL coaches do you think have ties to Harvard [in '97-98], Northeastern ['95-96], Ohio ['94], Allegheny College ['90-93], USMMA ['88-89], WPI ['86-87], and Tulane ['84-85]. Doesn't seem like enough opportunity to build up an abundance of coaching relationships, at least not ones who went on from there to the NFL. Only so many guys he can squeeze out of Iowa and Green Bay, and perhaps only so many from those places who would want to work with him. Perhaps 7 is the best he can do, which is maybe why he's resorting to graduate assistants with no coaching experience at any level, but I'm guessing that's cause they'll keep their mouths shut and be good little soldiers.
     
  33. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    [​IMG]
     
  34. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    The Browns still don't have a head coach. Don't ever give up!
     
  35. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    You realize these are the guys responsible for developing draft picks from unready college players to prepared, reliable NFL ones, right? Did you even bother to read my post? If so then please indulge me as to why you believe hiring a friend trumps hiring someone who is more qualified?

    as if the only way to hire an unqualified coach is to grab him from a YMCA. Gimme a break. There are unqualified coaches around the league who get fired from successful teams and bounce around the crappy and mediocre ones who sift through others' trash, and Duffner's resume points to being one of 'em.

    I don't give a turd what's uncommon, and I don't give a turd what Philbin is comfortable with. I give a sh-t about who is best qualified for the job and who will best develop our players considering player development is half the battle.

    Question: If it's "uncommon" among bottom tier organizations to hire cronies instead of the best candidate available but not common among successful organizations to do so, does that make it acceptable in Miami? There are plenty of practices that are common in the NFL yet aren't conducive toward winning. Should we adopt all those too since others seem to do it... or should we focus on what's most important to winning?
     
  36. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Ryan Tannehill, Charles Clay, Michael Egnew, Rishard Matthews, Olivier Vernon, Jared Odrick, Derrick Shelby, Koa Misi, Nolan Carroll, Reshad Jones, Chris Clemons.

    Those are all guys who have improved as players under these coaches. So no, I'm not concerned about it.
     
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  37. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    If Mike McCarthy is to be believed as for how he feels about Philbin, I'd guess he'd have a job back in GB if Miami ever fired him. Just because Sherman, according to Roland, has that style of not listening to all his assistants, does not mean Philbin is just the same.
    7 does not seem like a lot to me. Especially when those 7 seem qualified. Bullen, Johnson, and Taylor are not cronies when hired IMO. They may be cronies of cronies, but we could say that about every asst in the league just about.
    Lou Anarumo is also a crony you left off your list. The DBs like Wilson and Carroll have shown some improvement since he's been here. I have no problem with him.
    If Duffner sucks as a coach, how did he survive through 3 regimes in Jacksonville? They weren't hapless when he first joined their staff were they? Maybe he made them become hapless. :shifty:
    By my count, the asst coaches who have actually served on the same staff at the same time as Philbin in the past are:
    O'Keefe,
    Turner,
    Anarumo,
    Coyle,
    Duffner.
    Rivera played for Philbin too.
     
  38. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Jimmy Wilson also improved. One could also say Egnew is slowly improving too.
     
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  39. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I watched a lot of Wilson in college. He was no linebacker. That a team would draft him as one is asking for failure before it happens. Wilson should have been only a 4-3 RDE. He could have been as good as Dwight Freeney had he been used in the same scheme, IMO. Wilson wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. He had one of the lowest Wonderlic test scores that year. He is the kind of guy you line up at 7 technique or wide 9 in a 4-3, and say go get the QB.
     
  40. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    Yeah, I edited in Egnew. Even Brandon Gibson was having the best year of his career before he got hurt.
     

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