Dolphins Survivor: 2009

"Vengeful Odin wrote:

Ted Ginn [21] - I'm sorry, I'm not going to be bullied into not voting against a player that I feel has no business winning this contest.

the contest isnt even close to over, and Ted isnt winning. Thats a pretty lame excuse for being a total dick.

"gi§h® wrote:

are you too afraid to pick a favorite and vote for him?

all in due time... first things first...

"gi§h® wrote:

the contest isnt even close to over, and Ted isnt winning. Thats a pretty lame excuse for being a total dick.

We're only too familiar with what will happen if we let up now -

2008 Survivor wrote:

Ginn Jr. [23] -
Ronnie Brown [97]
Samson Satele [62]
Vernon Carey [63] +

"FinsAreLife wrote:

I think i messed up, if someone wants to check it for me....

Chad Henne [18]
Chad Pennington [57]
Davone Bess [15]
Ted Ginn [20]
Ronnie Brown [75]
Vontae Davis [14]-
Will Allen [12]
Ricky Williams [13]
Yeremiah Bell [18]
Patrick Cobbs [11]
Joey Porter [27]
Justin Smiley [4]
Kendall Langford [12]
Vernon Carey [13]
Jake Long [58]
Anthony Fasano [11]+
Greg Camarillo [8]
Jason Ferguson [9]
Phillip Merling [11]
Matt Roth [12]
Tony Sparano [18]
Jason Taylor [14]

Looks fine to me! :up:

"gi§h® wrote:

the contest isnt even close to over, and Ted isnt winning. Thats a pretty lame excuse for being a total dick.

I can understand your frustration. I know how that can be. Just understand, I think that every remaining player on the roster contributed more last year or will contribute more than him this year.

Chad Henne: Our future at QB.
Chad Pennington: 2x Comeback player of the year.
Davone Bess: Outproduced Ginn, especially when comparing their rookie seasons.
Ronnie Brown: Pro Bowl rb.
Vontae Davis: Future Pro Bowl cb.
Will Allen: Underrated CB that deserves more love.
Ricky Williams: Perfect for his role. Solid now, most assuredly a true NFL survivor.
Yeremiah Bell: Very solid FS, only knock is that he can't catch.
Patrick Cobbs: Really bloomed as a 3rd option, especially out of the wildcat.
Joey Porter: MVP of the defense.
Justin Smiley: Was on pace for a solid year, before he got hurt.
Kendall Langford: Should be a tremendous 3-4 DE for us for years.
Vernon Carey: One part of a pair of bookened Tackles.
Jake Long: See Above.
Anthony Fasano: Great year for him as a TE. Will continue to blossom.
Greg Camarillo: Deserves credit. Has done more with less than arguably any other WR in the NFL.
Jason Ferguson: Our NT. Look at the YPC the other team put up against us when he was out.
Phillip Merling: NT of the future. Solid against the run and the pass.
Matt Roth: Second on the team in sacks. Started to look comfortable at OLB at the end of the year. Most thought he may get cut last year, but he ended up being a surprise for us at OLB.
Tony Sparano: Coach of the year last year.
Jason Taylor: Future HOFer, all time Phins leader in sacks.

I'd make the argument that EVERY ONE of these players deserves to be put ahead of Ginn.

I'll say it again.

This has nothing to do with my belief about Ginn and his potential. I just think these guys rate higher on the board at this point in time, based on what they did last year and what I think they will do this year.

Hopefully this clears up any misconceptions.

I hate Issac Newton soooooooo much right now!!!!

How can you give Bess props, yet not understand the basic concept of it being Ginn's presence on the field that allowed Bess to have open routes underneath? Makes no sense to me. Of course Bess had a better year...he didn't have as much coverage on him because of Ginn, and he was running routes that played to Pennington's strengths. Blind hatred of Ginn is all this is.

"resnor wrote:

How can you give Bess props, yet not understand the basic concept of it being Ginn's presence on the field that allowed Bess to have open routes underneath? Makes no sense to me. Of course Bess had a better year...he didn't have as much coverage on him because of Ginn, and he was running routes that played to Pennington's strengths. Blind hatred of Ginn is all this is.

You're right. It was Teddy's speed and the fact that he was double-covered, not Bess's superior route-running and Pennington's accuracy, that allowed Bess to have such a great year.

Except that he wasn't double-covered. And he was targted more than either Bess or Camarillo.

It has nothing to do with hatred of a player - I like Ginn, and when he plays this fall I hope he lights it up. I just don't think this should be a popularity contest where folks are forced to go along with the masses, that's all.

"Vengeful Odin wrote:

I can understand your frustration. I know how that can be. Just understand, I think that every remaining player on the roster contributed more last year or will contribute more than him this year.

Chad Henne: Our future at QB.
Chad Pennington: 2x Comeback player of the year. Former Jet,
Davone Bess: Outproduced Ginn, especially when comparing their rookie seasons.
Ronnie Brown: Pro Bowl rb.
Vontae Davis: Future Pro Bowl cb.
Will Allen: Underrated CB that deserves more love.
Ricky Williams: Perfect for his role. Solid now, most assuredly a true NFL survivor.
Yeremiah Bell: Very solid FS, only knock is that he can't catch.
Patrick Cobbs: Really bloomed as a 3rd option, especially out of the wildcat.
Joey Porter: MVP of the defense.
Justin Smiley: Was on pace for a solid year, before he got hurt.
Kendall Langford: Should be a tremendous 3-4 DE for us for years.
Vernon Carey: One part of a pair of bookened Tackles.
Jake Long: See Above.
Anthony Fasano: Great year for him as a TE. Will continue to blossom.
Greg Camarillo: Deserves credit. Has done more with less than arguably any other WR in the NFL.
Jason Ferguson: Our NT. Look at the YPC the other team put up against us when he was out.
Phillip Merling: NT of the future. Solid against the run and the pass.
Matt Roth: Second on the team in sacks. Started to look comfortable at OLB at the end of the year. Most thought he may get cut last year, but he ended up being a surprise for us at OLB.
Tony Sparano: Coach of the year last year.
Jason Taylor: Future HOFer, all time Phins leader in sacks.

I'd make the argument that EVERY ONE of these players deserves to be put ahead of Ginn.

I'll say it again.

This has nothing to do with my belief about Ginn and his potential. I just think these guys rate higher on the board at this point in time, based on what they did last year and what I think they will do this year.

Hopefully this clears up any misconceptions.

Ok, so Ginn will contribute less than our backup QB, Bess, Camarillo, Ricky, Cobbs in our offense...... riiiiiiight........

"Vengeful Odin wrote:

You're right. It was Teddy's speed and the fact that he was double-covered, not Bess's superior route-running and Pennington's accuracy, that allowed Bess to have such a great year.

Except that he wasn't double-covered. And he was targted more than either Bess or Camarillo.

It has nothing to do with hatred of a player - I like Ginn, and when he plays this fall I hope he lights it up. I just don't think this should be a popularity contest where folks are forced to go along with the masses, that's all.

Ginn caught more passes than anyone on the team. He stayed healthy the entire year. He got better as the season progressed, and he made a lot of huge plays for us. Bess is good, but he didn't win us any games. And Camarillo cant be dissed, no matter what, because of what he did in 07. But you know what I would say about his roster status, if I were willing to say it.

FYI, I'm not on either "side" of the Ginn debate.

I think most fans' thoughts can be summarized as:

Ginn is good (considering only 2 years of NFL experience)
Ginn has potential to bust out
Ginn doesn't deserve to be the 2009 Dolphins Survivor.

"gi§h® wrote:

Ginn caught more passes than anyone on the team. He stayed healthy the entire year. He got better as the season progressed, and he made a lot of huge plays for us. Bess is good, but he didn't win us any games. And Camarillo cant be dissed, no matter what, because of what he did in 07. But you know what I would say about his roster status, if I were willing to say it.

What would you say about his roster status? You think he's in danger of getting cut? Not a chance.

"Mile High Fin wrote:

FYI, I'm not on either "side" of the Ginn debate.

I think most fans' thoughts can be summarized as:

Ginn is good (considering only 2 years of NFL experience)
Ginn has potential to bust out
Ginn doesn't deserve to be the 2009 Dolphins Survivor.

geee, which of those 3 is completely absurd.

"MonstBlitz wrote:

What would you say about his roster status? You think he's in danger of getting cut? Not a chance.

You gotta play to contribute.
You gotta compete to play.
You gotta be healthy to compete.

"gi§h® wrote:

You gotta play to contribute.
You gotta compete to play.
You gotta be healthy to compete.

Is 3.5 catches and 49 yards per game your idea of "contributing"?

Just curious.

"Vengeful Odin wrote:

You're right. It was Teddy's speed and the fact that he was double-covered, not Bess's superior route-running and Pennington's accuracy, that allowed Bess to have such a great year.

Except that he wasn't double-covered. And he was targted more than either Bess or Camarillo.

It has nothing to do with hatred of a player - I like Ginn, and when he plays this fall I hope he lights it up. I just don't think this should be a popularity contest where folks are forced to go along with the masses, that's all.

You can't deny that Bess benefited GREATLY from running routes that kept him in Pennington's comfort zone. That is my point. If you had Ginn in the slot, he'd have done the same thing, probably better actually, IMO, than Bess or Cam. However, you could NOT put Bess or Cam on the outside, in Ginn's position and have them have the production that Ginn had last year.

Are you REALLY arguing that Ginn's speed downfield didn't have a factor in keeping the defenders back, and thereby benefiting Bess and Cam? Really?

"gi§h® wrote:

geee, which of those 3 is completely absurd.

"Completely absurd"??????

When there's choices like:
Ronnie Brown
Chad Pennington
Jake Long
Joey Porter
Tony Sparano
etc

If you can't see that, I cannot help you.
Remember, I'm not on either "side". I'm being objective. Ginn would be my 5-6 choice......out of 53 players.......is pretty darn high..........but not Sole Survivor.

Sparano said something that sent up a flag (for me at least) when questioned about the players returning from injury coming into this season. I have the audio clip, and here's the transcription.....

RADIO GUY: "Can I ask you about the health of some of some of your players? Particularly Donald Thomas, Justin Smiley and Camarillo. What do you know about them?"

SPARANO: "Well, they're doin' well right now. I mean they're all rehabbing from their injuries, and doin' well at this particular time. But, you know, we really try to not, ah, comment on the injury thing. But, ah, they're all doin pretty well and a few of them are ahead of schedule at this time."

RADIO GUY: "Do you expect them back for training camp?"

SPARANO: "Ahhhhh (pauses), I would say that aaaaa....(stalling)....I would expect ah, um.......a couple of them back for training camp."

That sounds to me like one of those three will not be back at the start of camp. One can only speculate that it is most likely Camarillo, with an outside chance that its Smiley. We drafted 2 mid round WRs. That means 2 WRs "need" to go from the roster. Perhaps those 2 are Cam and Wilford. I would not be surpirsed even in the smallest of measurements if that happened.

"Vengeful Odin wrote:

Is 3.5 catches and 49 yards per game your idea of "contributing"?

Just curious.

More than Bess, Camarillo, Fasano, and Martin. None of them contributed either huh?

Why you gotta keep twisting stats to suit your needs?

To be honest, I think that if you take Ginn out of our offense, our entire offense is immediately handcuffed. Without Ginn out there to stretch the field, then teams can just stuff the box...hurts our run game, and hurts our "studly" receivers of Bess and Cam. Without Ginn to worry about, defenses would no longer have to worry about a deep threat...neither Cam nor Bess possess the necessary speed to be a legitimate deep threat.

"Mile High Fin wrote:

"Completely absurd"??????

When there's choices like:
Ronnie Brown
Chad Pennington
Jake Long
Joey Porter
Tony Sparano
etc

If you can't see that, I cannot help you.
Remember, I'm not on either "side". I'm being objective. Ginn would be my 5-6 choice......out of 53 players.......is pretty darn high..........but not Sole Survivor.

what are you talking about? one of those options said that Ginn doesnt deserve to even be in this contest. That is absurd.

Please stop screaming. :shifty:

Chad Henne [18]
Chad Pennington [56] -
Davone Bess [15]
Ted Ginn [20]
Ronnie Brown [75]
Vontae Davis [14]
Will Allen [12]
Ricky Williams [13]
Yeremiah Bell [18]
Patrick Cobbs [11]
Joey Porter [27]
Justin Smiley [4]
Kendall Langford [12]
Vernon Carey [13]
Jake Long [59] +
Anthony Fasano [11]
Greg Camarillo [8]
Jason Ferguson [9]
Phillip Merling [11]
Matt Roth [12]
Tony Sparano [18]
Jason Taylor [14]

"Mile High Fin wrote:

"Completely absurd"??????

When there's choices like:
Ronnie Brown
Chad Pennington
Jake Long
Joey Porter
Tony Sparano
etc

If you can't see that, I cannot help you.
Remember, I'm not on either "side". I'm being objective. Ginn would be my 5-6 choice......out of 53 players.......is pretty darn high..........but not Sole Survivor.

This is pretty much where I stand. The only difference is that I, along with others, have come to the realization that if there is a group of people who will vote in concerted action for Ted Ginn, and eventually vote in concerted action against other players there has to be people voting in concerted action against Ginn, otherwise he will run away with the title again. Take a look at what happened last year. Ginn was down and out but the mafia organized and stormed back. I was part of it. That year, I felt Ginn had the promise to be worthy of the title. This year I think he has still has promise, maybe more than last year, but our roster has been stacked with so much other talent that he doesn't stack up, IMHO.

I really hope Gish and company are proven right with their claims of Ginn in year 3. I've said it before and I'll say it again. I don't doubt he could have a huge 3rd year. And when he does he'll earn at least some of my votes in 2010. And I have voted for Ginn a few times this year as well.

But no more explaining my position. I think all of us "UnTEDables" have made it clear we are Ginn fans at heart.

May the best Dolphin win!

"MonstBlitz wrote:

This is pretty much where I stand. The only difference is that I, along with others, have come to the realization that if there is a group of people who will vote in concerted action for Ted Ginn, and eventually vote in concerted action against other players there has to be people voting in concerted action against Ginn, otherwise he will run away with the title again. Take a look at what happened last year. Ginn was down and out but the mafia organized and stormed back. I was part of it. That year, I felt Ginn had the promise to be worthy of the title. This year I think he has still has promise, maybe more than last year, but our roster has been stacked with so much other talent that he doesn't stack up, IMHO.

I really hope Gish and company are proven right with their claims of Ginn in year 3. I've said it before and I'll say it again. I don't doubt he could have a huge 3rd year. And when he does he'll earn at least some of my votes in 2010. And I have voted for Ginn a few times this year as well.

But no more explaining my position. I think all of us "UnTEDables" have made it clear we are Ginn fans at heart.

May the best Dolphin win!

Ted Ginn will make you pay.

Chad Henne [18]
Chad Pennington [56]
Davone Bess [15]
Ted Ginn [21] + down to 20? no more messin around now.
Ronnie Brown [75]
Vontae Davis [13] -
Will Allen [12]
Ricky Williams [13]
Yeremiah Bell [18]
Patrick Cobbs [11]
Joey Porter [27]
Justin Smiley [4]
Kendall Langford [12]
Vernon Carey [13]
Jake Long [59]
Anthony Fasano [11]
Greg Camarillo [8]
Jason Ferguson [9]
Phillip Merling [11]
Matt Roth [12]
Tony Sparano [18]
Jason Taylor [14]