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Dolphins rookie QB Brandon Doughty happy to return home to Miami/ Combine vid

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Sceeto, May 7, 2016.

  1. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Guaranteed good player then.
     
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  2. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    why does he seem suited for a backup?????
     
  3. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    Cant say they are trashing him. They have zero knowledge of him, but CK, Finster, and I are letting them know. CK is like a boxer, jabbing here and there, I am more of a knockout punch
     
  4. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    He seems like a perfect candidate. Smart, both in a football and real life sense. Lots of experience playing in college, and seeming to be accurate and not mistake prone, but lacking the raw physical abilities that you'd want from your starter. And at his age, he's likely maxed out physically too. Normally, I absolutely hate drafting even 24 year olds, let alone someone who will be 25 his rookie year, but if he can prove that he can handle the backup duties, then having him cost controlled through his age 25-28 seasons could be a real win for the team. I guess we'll see how well he actually performs once camp and the preseason begin, but I'm rooting for him.
     
  5. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    raw physical abilities such as?????

    he sees the open receiver and completes the pass, I'll take that.
     
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  6. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    OK. I know you love the guy. I hope he makes the team.
     
  7. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I understand this is the typical thinking with respect to the QB position but I think it's pretty flawed. Technical skills guide a quarterback's ceiling WAY more than physical attributes. And I don't think it's close, considering the best quarterbacks to play in the modern era are Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers. The only one of the four that has a great arm is Rodgers, and he would traditionally be dinged on a "ceiling" basis for his slight frame. Peyton Manning and Tom Brady would be dinged on a "ceiling" basis for their arm strength and total lack of athletic ability. And Drew Brees, pretty much all of the above maybe excepting athletic ability.

    Technical skills made those players the best quarterbacks to play the game in this millennium. If that's the case, what the hell is the point of tying physical abilities into "ceiling" arguments? I mean it's basically an admission that Brandon Doughty's ceiling is to be the best quarterback that ever played the game, because some of the best quarterbacks to ever play the game have the same physical attributes.

    I'm not arguing against an evaluation saying he should be a backup. By all means let's keep in mind he's a 7th rounder that victimized CUSA defenses. I'm saying the evaluation of him as a backup would better be done by evaluating his technical skills, not physical attributes...provided he doesn't have physical shortcomings that are so bad as to be classified as fatal flaws. But even then, I think Russell Wilson has done a great job challenging our preconceived notions of what is or isn't a fatal flaw in terms of physical stature/abilities.
     
  8. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    I agree, certainly if Doughty were a WR or RB he would have some serious flaws, but as a QB I think he is just fine.
     
  9. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    You could also look at Dan, who was never physically gifted, yes he had an arm, but otherwise...

    Then look at him after the achilles, when he came back looking like peg leg the pirate, his one calf half the size of the other, actually limping around, still playing at a high level.

    Ability to operate in the pocket remains as one of the best attributes a QB can have.
     
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  10. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    This one is for dolphin25:

     
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  11. mnfinfan

    mnfinfan Active Premium Member Luxury Box

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    A guaranteed winner then!
     
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  12. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this, but I also think a QBs mental make up or whatever term one wishes to use, is just as important. The intangibles, etc. IMO, those are the two vital qualities for being a great QB. It's why certain QBs don't get rattled or flustered, etc. It's that grace under pressure, etc. Keeps 'em cool. It seems Doughty has this in spades. That and the technical skills as you mentioned are key.
     
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  13. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So you're saying, "clutch" is an important factor.
     
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  14. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    I've always been a fan of Matt Moore too. In fact my 2 favorite QB's are on the Dolphins :)
     
  15. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I agree that personality is huge for a QB. But it's not about "clutch". The game is too fast to do anything but react and that reaction is based on your muscle memory for anybody who has put in the work. So it's about having the personality to put the work in and additionally to be a leader and inspire confidence. The leadership and confidence may or may not be a learned trait. Expert opinions vary on that part.
     
  16. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I think that gets pretty much encompassed within technical skills. Technical skills are brain-based.
     
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  17. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Yeah man, I didn't mention nor mean 'clutch" and I've stayed out of that other thread. Ha! That kooky jdang brought that up because well, he's just kooky. Nah, I think he's been in the ring in that other thread. In the past, I've expressed my opinions on this whole "clutch" thing. In summation; there is no "clutch". It's just a great QB appears to be clutch because they are often in those important situations and games that there appears to be some magical "clutch" when there is not. It's just a really good QB being his really good self and is magnified and noticed by the average fan, or one could get get harsh an say ignorant masses, in those end of game type moments. That's not what I meant and I don't want this thread to get derailed that way. It may have been interpreted, or more accurately, misinterpreted that way when I said "grace under pressure". No biggie.

    However, I do think it's about more than having the "personality" to put the work in", but I think that certainly can be one example or quality, sure. Leadership and confidence, yes.
     
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  18. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    But that's clutch. Not getting rattled in high pressure situations. Doesn't mean there are only 1 or 2 clutch QBs. These are the cream of the crop, maybe the top half of qbs in the league is clutch.

    But if you value someone who doesn't get rattled ... that's clutch!
     
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  19. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Oh boy. No, you can "not get rattled" in practice. You threw in "in pressure situations", It will show up there as well and explained why. Don't go there brotha'. :pointlol:
     
  20. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    I agree there is no clutch in practice, but people can certainly get rattled. Ask any of the rookies of they are nervous or not. Ask the guy that knows others are breathing down his neck for a spot on the team.
     
  21. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Based on the other thread, if there is pressure in camp, and you are rattled and nervous, then you would have to argue that there is "clutch" in camp for these players, since some perform better than others.

    Which means you have to now not only try to identify "clutch," but now different kinds of "clutch."
     
  22. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Not different kinds, but different levels, every year there are good OTA players that dry up in TC, then there are good TC players that dry up in the regular season, good reg season players that dry up in late season "do or die" games, or the playoffs, and then those that dry up on the biggest stage, the SB, which can engulf entire teams.

    Players and coaches talk about it all the time, it's not a myth, and it's not rocket science, each level has more pressure, people react differently to pressure, it's as simple as 1-2-3 really.
     
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  23. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Yeah...there are players that look good in camp, playing against other not good players, but are not good when playing better opponents. Same with the other examples.

    Again, "clutch" is something we ascribe to players, when, really, "clutch" is simply good players doing what good players always do.
     
  24. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Then why is Manning better in the regular season, and Flacco better in the playoffs?

    Why is it that Peyton is much better in the regular season while his brother is better in the playoffs?

    Why does Tebow have a regular season rating of 75, and a playoff rating of 90?

    Why is Reggie Jackson called "Mr October"?

    Why is Claude Lemieux 109th in all time regular season goals, but 9th all time in playoff goals, 84th in regular season game winners, but 4th all time in playoff game winners?

    Your theory doesn't hold water Resnor.
     
  25. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    These things you bring up have been answered several times by Fineas already, you just ignore his answers.
     
  26. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Tebow has played what, 2 playoff games, vs like 30 regular season games? You telling me you can't find a two game span in his regular season where he posted similar numbers?
     
  27. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    Fineas hasn't sufficiently answered this at all.
     
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  28. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    What about the rest of it?
     
  29. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Reggie Jackson got pumped up by media just like Robert Horry is called "Big Shot Bob," even though his percentages in playoffs are virtually identical to regular season.

    Flacco we disagree on, as evidenced by the conversation ongoing about him around here.

    Eli has had stretches in regular season where he played great. He's not consistent, which is why he's a frustrating QB.

    As to Lemieux, I don't really follow hockey. But, there are many factors that could affect increased scoring in the playoffs. Regardless, Lemieux is an all-time hockey great, a HoFer, correct? I mean, using players that play at a high level all the time doesn't prove "clutch" in my mind, it just proves that great players play great.
     
  30. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    You are thinking of Mario Lemieux, I am speaking of Claude, although I did get his stats wrong and have corrected them.

    Claude is famous for playing at a high level in the playoffs, legendary in hockey circles, but an avg regular season player.

    Reggie is not media made, he was a post season beast, too many stats to even list in that regard.

    Robert Horry, lol, your killing your own argument bringing him up, his shooting % and PPG actually go up in the playoffs, do you know how rare that is? Also add to that that most of the time he was actually brought into the game during the most clutch moments.

    Robert Horry, Reggie Jackson, Joe Flacco and Claude Lemieux DEFINE clutch.

    To be more precise, these are the guys that are the pinnacle of clutch, these are the guys that actually raise their game in pressure situations, not just guys who maintain their level in those situations, which is also clutch.
     
  31. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Fineas, I believe, already posted Horry's stats. They were virtually identical.

    Jackson batted .278 in postseason, and .262 in the regular season. That's pretty damn close. I don't feel like going through all his stats.
     
  32. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Horry shot. 425 regular season for 2 pointers, and .426 in postseason. From 3 point, he shot .341 regular season and .359 post season.

    Again, virtually identical.
     
  33. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Perhaps Claude played on better teams than others, allowing him to make the playoffs more, this having more chances at playoff game winners? Maybe his teams had comfortable leads in the regular season, giving him fewer chances at game winners in the regular season?
     
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  34. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    You and Fineas are ignoring the crux of the point, EVERYONES % and points go down in the playoffs, besides a very rare few.

    Horry has taken how many pressure shots in the playoffs? and his % and points are actually higher? that is insane clutch ability.

    Reggie was a post season great, an all time great, that is not media made, that is fact, 7th all time in World Series slugging%, 10th in slug+OB%, 6th in total bases, with 43 less PA than anyone in the top 10, tied for 10th in doubles, tied for 5th in HRs, tied for 8th in RBIs, these are all WS all time records.

    In the postseason, he is 9th in total bases, 5th in HRs, and 7th in RBIs, with only 77 games played, which is well out of the top 10.

    Please stop saying that Reggie is a media creation.
     
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  35. Finster

    Finster Finsterious Finologist

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    None of this answers why he was so good in the postseason, if he was on such good teams, why aren't his regular season stats better?

    BTW, his game winners in regular season are abnormally high in comparison to his overall goal total, he just plays better in high pressure situations, which is very well known, and documented in hockey circles.
     
  36. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    Other people have done these types of analyses before. For batting averages, I found this:

    Regular Season vs Playoffs
    2013: .253 vs .239
    2012: .255 vs .235
    2011: .255 vs .252
    2010: .257 vs .209
    2009: .262 vs .241
    2008: .264 vs .245
    2007: .268 vs .233
    2006: .269 vs .251
    2005: .264 vs .254
    2004: .266 vs .256

    So batting average is on average 0.2 less in the playoffs
     
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  37. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah...there are players that look good in camp, playing against other not good players, but are not good when playing better opponents. Same with the other examples.

    Again, "clutch" is something we ascribe to players, when, really, "clutch" is simply good players doing what good players always do.

    one could argue that makes Tannehill not clutch as we hear how great he is doing in camp, but it doesn't translate into 3rd downs and 4th quarters in games.
     
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  38. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    If he was on great teams, he wouldn't have as high a percentage of chances at game winners in regular season as he did in the playoffs. For instance, let's say his team was winning in average 5-2 in regular season games, and 3-2 in the playoffs.
     
  39. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I didn't say he was "media made" in general. I'm saying, the media played up POST-SEASON plays, dubbing him "Mr. October." In reality, he played like he always did, just on a bigger stage.

    You're calling that clutch, I'm not.
     
  40. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    The other piece, I believe that playoff numbers for greats would probably come right in line with regular season, if they played enough games.
     

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