Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Jan 25, 2019.
Exactly, next man up...We need to keep going until we hit on a QB.
Grier is obviously the next fall guy, so it was bound to happen, but this is pretty early. Going to be a rough three years.
Alright, people keep bringing this up as a legitimate option, so let's finally squash the idea that drafting a QB every year is a good idea. It's not.
First of all, not every QB develops the same so if you're only looking for guys that are NFL ready in their rookie year then you've eliminated the vast majority of QB candidates and you're now left drafting them almost exclusively with first round picks. If you're drafting a QB every year, you're essentially deciding to pass on guys that need more than a year to develop.
Second, you're now going to be teaching a new playbook every year because different QBs have different strengths. If you don't have interest in changing your playbook every year, then you have to draft guys with identical skill sets. Now you've cut your candidate pool in half yet again.
Last, if you're working with a candidate pool that is now significantly diminished you need one of two things to happen: 1) tank every year for the first overall pick, which would effectively destroy the financial health of the franchise; or 2) get lucky, because otherwise it's going to take a long time to land the guy you want given that you're now looking for a needle in a haystack. If you don't get lucky and hit on a guy early, you're going to be wasting at least 6-7 first round draft picks over the course of 10 years. So, when you finally do hit on a QB, the team around him will be garbage, and how are you going to be able to evaluate your shiny new toy if everyone playing around him sucks?
The only ACTUAL way of drafting a QB is to determine, before hand, what skills you desire in order to run the passing game. You find a guy with those skills, regardless of when, where, or how you find him. You wait for that guy to show up instead of drafting a new guy every year and trying to make it work anyway.
I think you need another category in your poll. I recommend:
Keep RT for as long as it takes to find an acceptable replacement via the draft or free agency.
I think he's better than Tua, Fromm, and Hebert.
IOW, I'd pick Murray first out of any QB in the 2020 class.
Saying that, I really like Tua. If the Dolphins do not get Murray this year I'd be happy with Tua.
Bonus to picking this year: If we draft a stinker and blow 2019\2020 seasons, maybe we have a shot at Lawrence in '21.
I mean, I think (and hope) the front office and staff will just take things in stride and not overthink things. People criticizing Murray for his size? That's overthinking. You get a chance to draft that kind of talent, you do it. Don't overthink and overcomplicate things by sticking to stereotypes and prototypes. Be bold. Draft talent. Fit your team around said talent instead of shoehorning sub-par talent into your "system".
For our front office, this means not marrying themselves to some grand plan that doesn't allow for flexibility. If they are crossing off Murray purely on size? Ugh, dumb. If they have already decided they won't take a Qb because ... reasons ... dumb! Be open! Frankly, we currently are not in great position to draft a QB this year. We aren't in the top 10, and there is a limited number of "worthy" prospects this year. If we truly don't have a good chance and don't draft one? That's ok. But if we let people slip by us because we are married to someone or some vague plan? Ugh.
In some ways, this QB talk and 2020 plan almost seems, dare I say it, smokescreenish.
This draft is about addressing the trenches and defense, 2020 should be about getting a QB.
Because the big picture is you would rather go 3-13 than 7-9.
I’ve seen Mahomes make pass rushers let up at a ridiculous rate by using the pump fake and the new QB protection rules. Defenders are now so worried about roughing the passer calls that a QB can essentially run around forever behind the LOS if he has good awareness, agility and the quick twitch to pump fake effectively.
I feel it is foolish to get rid of a Tannehill without having a specific replacement player who is as good or better available to take his place. Hoping a drafted player will be OK doesn't cut it. You would need to go through preseason training and games before you would know if a draftee will be better.
I know this thread pertains to quarterback and I don't want to stray off topic however....if we don't shore up our OL and make it a SOLID wall of impregnable protection, it's not going to matter WHO we have at QB...it's going to be more of the same...if not worse.
I think right now since we are starting fresh with a HC, I think we should also start fresh with a new QB. The first order of business for me would be to sign Fitzpatrick if his deal is reasonable, and then when the draft rolls around try and sign Murray if we can. I mean, come on, what do we have to lose if we suck, right? It's not like we have been or were going to do anything anyway. Might as well go for it.
I think a lot of us agree with you here.
I can write it! The foreword of the day is "quixotic".
Quixotic means to be unrealistically optimistic to an approach that will most likely fail, often in comical fashion (think Wiley Coyote from Loony Tunes type of failure). For instance, believing that cutting Tannehill makes a better QB instantly appear on our roster is quixotic. We've had a total of 19 starting quarterbacks since Marino and one could argue that none of them were on Tannehill's level- yet we expect #20 to automatically be the next John Elway?
That's quixotic folks. Soak up the foreword and envelop your mind with its meaning. Let common sense prevail!
There's no way around "hoping" a drafted player is better given how big a crapshoot the draft is. Maybe there's an occasional exception with a guy like Luck, but given that those guys go near the top of the draft you'd never get them with the approach you're advocating.
Also, you don't just draft a new QB, test him out in preseason, then say he was the right or wrong choice. You have to test him out for 2-3 seasons, especially given how bad rookie years often are. And keeping around your previous starting QB (e.g., Tannehill) for starting QB money as nothing more than a backup during that time is bad cap management.
It's not in the poll but I've always advocated drafting a new one every 2-3 years or so until you get it right.
Ha! I shall not be denied! I come forth to slay that windmill named Tannehill!
Building a coaching staff that excels at developing talent is a massive advantage and key to long term success. Not just because you can get the most out of role players but because you can get a return of investment in terms of picks and trades.
If the Dolphins can figure that out things will really be looking up.
I have a question....If we are going to avoid "drafting" a quarterback in this draft (which I think is a mistake due to the need for one), what about trading for Jacoby Brissett? This is a player who has proven himself as a starter in this league, and wants to continue being a starter. He'll never get that crack with Andrew Luck in Indy, so what about trading for him? If we are done with Tannehill as so many suggest, then how about Brissett?
Nah he just needs to go. If we are worse, so be it, better draft position. It's time to move on.
Why? So we can give up a mid round pick to go 6-10?
Actually, congress is the act of coming together, not going backward... that is regress, which the Dolphins have been doing since Don Shula retired.
I guess I had going backwards, uh backwards.
I know it will be unpopular, but I trade down in the first to pick up an extra late second, load up on the lines, but use a 2nd or 3rd to grab Will Grier. Even if he’s just a stop gap to use another chip for a qb next year. I think he could be a star although his off the field concerns could derail him. He’s got a laser for an arm, has great instincts and decent enough size and wheels.
I just think it’s wise to throw more than a single pick/player at the qb position given its importance.
Will grier is going to be a first round pick...
My Foreword for the day
Originally a way of speaking that identified a person as a member of a group (for example saying “The 1972 Dolphins the only undefeated team in the history of the NFL” with proper emphasis on “ only” and “undefeated” identifies someone as a Miami Dolphins fan.).
Now, a common belief in a group that is accepted without examination (e.g. defense wins championships, you should draft a QB every year)
Wilson is a Tank but Murray is fragile? Wilson weight in at like 203 at the combine and was 5'11. If Murray is 5'10 195 like some people think, an inch less and 7 pounds less doesnt make you go from tank to fragile. Murray will put on more weight just like Wilson did. Wilson was a 4 year guy coming out also.
Ditch Tannehill, tank, and wait until 2020, when you likely won't have to trade anything to get into position to draft a QB who is projected to be sufficiently good.
Not always true. A QB like Wilson or Mahomes could do fair to good behind our OL. Sure, they'd be even better with more protection, but to ignore getting a QB until you have a solid OL is the same plan we saw under Parcells. A great, mobile QB could win with an average OL.
Given the choice between a great OL guy and a great QB, I'm taking the QB each and every time.
We've been deprived of QB play that entails the ability to go through progressions while sensing and evading pressure for so long that we tend to overestimate the need for pass protection.
If you have a QB who can't function well enough without the ultimate in pass protection, and you attribute his difficulties to the offensive line, then you may misplace your personnel emphasis on the offensive line, when it should be on the QB.
I don't think anyone thinks we need 5 guys who play like they were the #1 overall pick.
I definitely agree a QB needs to deal with pressure, but you still want the tools to prevent that pressure from occurring too often.
The main way to prevent that pressure from occurring too often is to have a QB who has the ability to score points, which prevents your offense from being in situations in which it's down big on the scoreboard and the opposing defense knows it has to pass and can pin its ears back and rush the quarterback, without staying honest against any other facet of your offense.
That sort of situation will overwhelm even the best of offensive lines, while keeping it at least close on the scoreboard can help an even mediocre offensive line play well.
I don't know why I have to keep reiterating this over and over again. Once again...slowly and in big letters...I...AM...NOT...TAKING...AWAY...THE...IMPORTANCE...OF...QUARTERBACK. WE...NEED...GREAT...QB...PLAY. It seems any and every time I bring up the need to shore up our OL, someone somewhere out there has the "yea but [insert QB name here]" counter argument. Well not every QB in the league is [insert name here] and even those who are, like Rodgers...like Ryan, like any number of the ones whose jock straps have been adored, they too had mere average to below average seasons. Hell, Rodgers for that matter had a DISASTEROUS season this year.
Football has been and always shall be a TEAM sport and that QB can't do his job if the 5 men in front of him aren't doing theirs and right now, our 5 have as a collective whole, have failed miserably.
Trust me, I value the QB more than the line. We have two bookend tackles already that I consider very solid, we just need to fix the interior which shouldn't cost huge resources.
I feel like the Tannehill contract is Mike Tannenbaum's parting gift to the Dolphins. He essentially put us behind the 8-ball. I am here to tell you guys the stuff you don't want to hear but need to hear. Based on his guaranteed money, if we cut him and sign a stop-gap QB, there is a very strong possibility that we will be spending more at the QB position and getting right around the same level of production that RT has given us. It is entirely possible that we could wind up paying more and getting less.
Cutting him as a symbolic gesture makes sense, and will likely be the ultimate rationale for making the move. Just to be honest with you guys. I don't like making big moves as metaphors. I like to make football decisions that make fiscal sense. I feel like we have been in Tannehill purgatory for years; however, just because you get out of purgatory does not necessarily mean you are going to heaven....
In my mind, Bridgewater seems to be the name that makes the most sense from a risk-reward standpoint. He is a stop-gap guy that could wind up being a franchise QB. I would pay a financial premium to get his services.
In all honesty, we are essentially in a situation where we need to thread the needle.
You guys are making it a lot harder than it has to be.
2019 is going to suck. The QB play for the team this coming year will likely be very bad.
Once you accept that, its much easier to move on, and you just have to worry about 2020 and beyond. The team doesn't need to add anyone expensive, or take on costs that will hurt themselves into the future. They just need to ride out next year and things will get better after that.
Getting Bridgewater in here to win 8-9 games, but never developing into a real good starter will simply hold the Dolphins back for several more years. I'm fine with a really down year if it means being able to build around a franchise caliber QB in the years to follow.
Being just above or below average is the hardest cycle to break in the NFL. Excluding the Browns of course, but the law of averages seems to have caught up to them and they finally got a decent QB.
I think bringing in a stop gap like Bridgewater is a terrible idea. He's not the answer. If we're going to suck, and I think we will, we should just roll with Brock or Fales or Falk. Get our QB in 2020.
Realise I haven't thrown in my two cents yet.
I'm not sold on Murray but I see the potential people are looking at and if he turns out to be a stud, a Miami passed on him, it'll be Drew Brees all over again. So, although I'm not sure about him myself, you have to take risks in the draft, and if Murray could be something special, you take a that risk. Any picks used to get him will be picks not used on other players, and generally, I don't like that waste, but if you're looking for your franchise QB, and he might be it, then I think you go get him at the risk of hampering the speed of your rebuild if he doesn't work out.
If he doesn't work out, or they don't go for him, then it's 2020 time. I like Tua. He might not be there though. His family want him to finish college, apparently. I'm not hyped on anyone else in 2020, but I make no claims to talent evaluation. If Tua moves to 2021 or Lawrence proves to be everything everyone is talking about, then that additional time waiting for a QB means that the team can continue to fix other issues on the team.
So to sum up, my preference is for Tua in 2020, but as a strategy, I think the team should make an attempt to grab any QB they believe might be a franchise QB, hopefully without breaking the bank. If that takes time, so much the better for filling in the other gaps.
As for Tannehill I see only two options. IF you can get reasonable trade value on him you trade him, if you cannot get value, you keep him for 2019 to avoid a worse cap scenario in 2020. You don't just cut him for nothing.
Armando is reporting that sources say that Miami will try to find a trade partner for tannehill, but if they cannot, an outright release..
Man, what wasted years as a fan..
Thank you dear lord baby jesus lying there in your little baby Jesus diapers, thank you.
I still think the best 1st round option is Murray. The question then becomes if the Dolphins think so do you make the move to go get him? If you don't and he doesn't slide to us at 13 what then? I don't like ANY of the other QB's in the top end of this class and the only other guy I do like is Easton Stick but he is a middle round to late round guy. I still say focus on fixing your lines this year as much as you can, grab Stick later and see if you can develop him the rest of the way. If he works out, problem solved. If not you pick up someone in the next draft that will be a better class. To be honest, I wouldn't mind waiting until Lawrence comes out and go all in for him, assuming he keeps going like he showed in the National Championship game and avoids any major injury.
No qb as short as murray has been taken in the first round since 1963. I hope we don’t waste our first pick on another gamble. Like d. Jordan
And no dt. With first pick. We need a real qb. Just my opinion. I don’t care to be argued with about it.