Dolphins Plans for QB

"Unlucky 13 wrote:

Trading RT to the Giants for a mid round pick? Yes.

Trading for Eli? Hell no. What would be the logical point of that?

There are two ways to deal with a rookie quarterback:

1. You throw them into the deep end and see if they can swim.

2. You sit them on the bench for a year or more while they develop and start a bridge quarterback.

If we chose to follow the second option like the Chiefs did with Mahomes, then we need a veteran quarterback to start for us. Ryan Tannehill could be that guy for a year, or we could go out and sign Ryan Fitzpatrick and he could start for a year. Essentially we would just need a solid veteran that can play 16 games and isn't going to stink up the joint sufficiently to force the rookie into starting before they are ready. Think about the Jaguars, they tried to keep Bortles on the bench as a rookie but Chad Henne struggled. So while Eli is not the greatest quarterback in the league, his numbers last season were respectable, and he is good enough to hold onto the starting position for a full slate of games before handing it over to the drafted quarterback.

Now obviously if you are on the tank for Tua bandwagon, then we shouldn't draft a quarterback this year or sign a veteran quarterback. We should chuck one of our inexperienced quarterbacks into the role and help this team lose as many games, if not all our games, to ensure we get the first overall pick. However, Tua is not worth tanking for. Nor can I see Brian Flores and co being on board for a full scale tank. I suspect we will want to compete and win games next season, not win now, but be competitive. As such we'll either have to pick up a veteran, draft someone this year, or spend whatever it takes to move up next year.

"Unlucky 13 wrote:

If Tannehill were to do that, and just walk away at around age 30, starting as many games as he has for just one franchise, it would be almost unheard of in modern NFL history. Not saying that he won't, but it would be so rare that there isn't another example to look at for many decades.

Don Meridith was Dallas' primary starter throughout most of the 60s and walked away after his age 30 season.

Marc Bulger started a lot of games for the Rams, but was injured a lot, and those injuries forced him to walk away after his age 31 season.

If he walked completely, I'd have mass respect for him; I don't understand why more athletes don't walk away. He has a beautiful wife, a few healthy kids and plenty of money....there's really no reason not to walk away except for his pride. So unless he could ink a deal with a contender with a solid chance of starting, the right move would be to call it quits.

I would imagine it's incredibly hard to walk away at 30 but it's definitely the smart move.

"Mike8272 wrote:

So their idea is that we trade Ryan Tannehill and receive Eli Manning and a day two pick?

If I was a Giants fan I'd be upset with that deal. I could understand a straight swap, they want to get younger at the quarterback position and are willing to take a risk on Tannehill; and for us, we acquire a veteran bridge quarterback while a young quarterback develops behind him. I could even go along with a pick swap somewhere in there, let's say a swap of second round picks, we get 37 and they get 48. But I don't see Tannehill having the value to get a quarterback like Eli Manning and a day two pick as well.

Would I take this deal if it was put on the table?

Yes. Eli Manning was the least of the Giants problems last season. In fact his stats are respectable: 4299 yards (4th highest of his career), 21 TDs, 11 INTs (2nd lowest in seasons he's started 16 games), 66 PCT (career high), and a 92.4 QB rating (4th highest of his career). The guy still has enough left in the tank for a season or two, and as a bridge quarterback he would be more than acceptable. We could even potentially compete for a wild card spot with a quarterback like Eli if he's backed up with a good defense. So for us it makes a lot of sense to do this deal and get a pick in return, but I don't see how this deal works out favourably for the Giants because Tannehill is not an upgrade or long term solution.

I'd take that deal for one more additional reason as well- you have a rookie being groomed by two Manning brothers (since Peyton would obviously be in the building from time to time). It's a great situation to be in honestly....a complete win/win.

"KeyFin wrote:

If he walked completely, I'd have mass respect for him; I don't understand why more athletes don't walk away. He has a beautiful wife, a few healthy kids and plenty of money....there's really no reason not to walk away except for his pride. So unless he could ink a deal with a contender with a solid chance of starting, the right move would be to call it quits.

I would imagine it's incredibly hard to walk away at 30 but it's definitely the smart move.

You are a long time retired. Sure he could go into a media role or find a different line of work, but ten or twenty years from now he might regret his decision to walk away rather than fight for a spot somewhere else and he would not be able to return to the field to right that wrong at 40 to 50 years old. Ok he doesn't need the money. Nor does he need to risk any further damage to his body. But that's generally not the way these guys are wired because they want to play the game, and while some might doubt Tannehill's chances of making it elsewhere, I doubt he feels the same way. I think he will believe he can have success on another team if given the chance.

The only time I could see someone walking away is if they have been given a warning by their doctor that they should retire for health reasons. For example, another hit and you could end up in a wheelchair. At that point is is a no brainer to retire and walk away while you can still live a good quality of life. But in Tannehill's case he is still healthy and able to produce, so I don't see walking away as a legitimate choice for Tannehill. He will go elsewhere and try and compete, and then maybe move on from playing if that fails.

With that said, he could go on to have a cushy life as a backup quarterback. Look at Matt Moore. He spent six seasons with us as a backup and was well paid. I think a lot of teams would happily take someone like Tannehill as their backup if he was willing to take such a role. Granted teams don't tend to keep the same backup around as long as we did, but if he loves football that much that he can't quit, there are good paydays available for being a top backup quarterback.

"Surfs Up 99 wrote:

It's rumored Tannehill might end up at the Redskins. If so, I think he will do well because Jay Gruden is a heck of a coach. Gruden was a QB, and the Orlando Predators kicked *** when he was their coach. IMO, he is one of those guys who gets it and can help his QB's play at a higher level than they would elsewhere.

Oh yeah Gruden did a great job as QB of the Predators and during NFL season I'm pretty sure he was the QB coach of the Bucs under his brother Jon.

We shall see if he can get anything out of Thill.

"Mike8272 wrote:

So their idea is that we trade Ryan Tannehill and receive Eli Manning and a day two pick?

If I was a Giants fan I'd be upset with that deal. I could understand a straight swap, they want to get younger at the quarterback position and are willing to take a risk on Tannehill; and for us, we acquire a veteran bridge quarterback while a young quarterback develops behind him. I could even go along with a pick swap somewhere in there, let's say a swap of second round picks, we get 37 and they get 48. But I don't see Tannehill having the value to get a quarterback like Eli Manning and a day two pick as well.

Would I take this deal if it was put on the table?

Yes. Eli Manning was the least of the Giants problems last season. In fact his stats are respectable: 4299 yards (4th highest of his career), 21 TDs, 11 INTs (2nd lowest in seasons he's started 16 games), 66 PCT (career high), and a 92.4 QB rating (4th highest of his career). The guy still has enough left in the tank for a season or two, and as a bridge quarterback he would be more than acceptable. We could even potentially compete for a wild card spot with a quarterback like Eli if he's backed up with a good defense. So for us it makes a lot of sense to do this deal and get a pick in return, but I don't see how this deal works out favourably for the Giants because Tannehill is not an upgrade or long term solution.

No we give up a second day pick and Ryan for Eli. Also we need to give up on the idea of tank for tua it’s not going to happen. We would have to be 1-15 or 2-14 at max to be in that drawing. If we we’re so sure we got the right coaching staff in place and so far I like what I’m seeing than there is no way we can lose that many games with the talent we have in the field. Without knowing schedule etc I’m betting we win at least 6-8 games this year

"Mike8272 wrote:

You are a long time retired. Sure he could go into a media role or find a different line of work, but ten or twenty years from now he might regret his decision to walk away rather than fight for a spot somewhere else and he would not be able to return to the field to right that wrong at 40 to 50 years old. Ok he doesn't need the money. Nor does he need to risk any further damage to his body. But that's generally not the way these guys are wired because they want to play the game, and while some might doubt Tannehill's chances of making it elsewhere, I doubt he feels the same way. I think he will believe he can have success on another team if given the chance.

The only time I could see someone walking away is if they have been given a warning by their doctor that they should retire for health reasons. For example, another hit and you could end up in a wheelchair. At that point is is a no brainer to retire and walk away while you can still live a good quality of life. But in Tannehill's case he is still healthy and able to produce, so I don't see walking away as a legitimate choice for Tannehill. He will go elsewhere and try and compete, and then maybe move on from playing if that fails.

With that said, he could go on to have a cushy life as a backup quarterback. Look at Matt Moore. He spent six seasons with us as a backup and was well paid. I think a lot of teams would happily take someone like Tannehill as their backup if he was willing to take such a role. Granted teams don't tend to keep the same backup around as long as we did, but if he loves football that much that he can't quit, there are good paydays available for being a top backup quarterback.

I mean, there's always two sides. On one hand, players want to compete and prove themselves. But on the other, they dread training camp and the long season, playing hurt, etc. During the season it's easy to think about retirement. During the off-season it's easy to think about playing.

Not to take anything away from Tannehill, but we've seen moments in recent years where he's playing scared. My guess is that he has a hearing problem or something like that where he just can't sense the pressure, and its the reason he takes so many hits that seemingly should be avoided. And in those situations, you can literally see him panic for a 1/2 second as he's thrown to the ground....that has to be in the back of his mind at all times. He said towards the end of last season that he wants to end his career as a Dolphin and I can't help but wonder if there wasn't more to that....maybe he was hinting at hanging it up if Miami releases him.

I'm not saying it would be easy for him, but I do think there's a part of his brain that's tired of getting hit. Last year was his worst ever in the pressure/sack category and I just wouldn't be shocked if he's done.

"Dorfdad wrote:

No we give up a second day pick and Ryan for Eli. Also we need to give up on the idea of tank for tua it’s not going to happen. We would have to be 1-15 or 2-14 at max to be in that drawing. If we we’re so sure we got the right coaching staff in place and so far I like what I’m seeing than there is no way we can lose that many games with the talent we have in the field. Without knowing schedule etc I’m betting we win at least 6-8 games this year

That makes more sense! In that case, I would not be looking to give up a day two pick for Eli Manning. I would rather draft someone and sign a bridge quarterback like Ryan Fitzpatrick, or give Nick Foles a shot at starting for us.

Agreed, I am not on the tank for Tua bandwagon. I have consistently said (here and on the other place) that tanking creates the wrong culture and comes with no guarantees. I would rather the team build while remaining competitive. Plenty of teams do it. You just have to be smart in the draft and with trades and free agents. I think this off season has shown great promise with our new head coach and the changes made to the front office. So I don't see us tanking, and I think 6 to 8 wins is a realistic total.

"KeyFin wrote:

I mean, there's always two sides. On one hand, players want to compete and prove themselves. But on the other, they dread training camp and the long season, playing hurt, etc. During the season it's easy to think about retirement. During the off-season it's easy to think about playing.

Not to take anything away from Tannehill, but we've seen moments in recent years where he's playing scared. My guess is that he has a hearing problem or something like that where he just can't sense the pressure, and its the reason he takes so many hits that seemingly should be avoided. And in those situations, you can literally see him panic for a 1/2 second as he's thrown to the ground....that has to be in the back of his mind at all times. He said towards the end of last season that he wants to end his career as a Dolphin and I can't help but wonder if there wasn't more to that....maybe he was hinting at hanging it up if Miami releases him.

I'm not saying it would be easy for him, but I do think there's a part of his brain that's tired of getting hit. Last year was his worst ever in the pressure/sack category and I just wouldn't be shocked if he's done.

As much as I'd like to say I wouldn't flinch at the sight of some of the defensive players heading my way, I can totally understand why Tannehill has that "oh ****!" moment as he notices someone like JJ Watt get past his blocker and heading right for him. That moment is going to be at the back of the mind of any quarterback or anyone else for that matter. The receiver going up for the catch over the middle could get nailed. It's part of football. The moment that enters the front of your mind is the time to call it day.

"Mike8272 wrote:

That makes more sense! In that case, I would not be looking to give up a day two pick for Eli Manning. I would rather draft someone and sign a bridge quarterback like Ryan Fitzpatrick, or give Nick Foles a shot at starting for us.

Agreed, I am not on the tank for Tua bandwagon. I have consistently said (here and on the other place) that tanking creates the wrong culture and comes with no guarantees. I would rather the team build while remaining competitive. Plenty of teams do it. You just have to be smart in the draft and with trades and free agents. I think this off season has shown great promise with our new head coach and the changes made to the front office. So I don't see us tanking, and I think 6 to 8 wins is a realistic total.

As much as I'd like to say I wouldn't flinch at the sight of some of the defensive players heading my way, I can totally understand why Tannehill has that "oh ****!" moment as he notices someone like JJ Watt get past his blocker and heading right for him. That moment is going to be at the back of the mind of any quarterback or anyone else for that matter. The receiver going up for the catch over the middle could get nailed. It's part of football. The moment that enters the front of your mind is the time to call it day.

Honestly, I think it entered his mind after his injury in 2016- you can see time and time again where he'd close his eyes and brace for impact just a split second before getting leveled. And hey, I'm definitely not knocking the guy for it...like you said, it takes ice water in the veins to stand in the pocket with some of these pros rearing down on you. Add in that he didn't even see half the hits coming and it's completely understandable why he might question his future.

This is going to be full rebuild for a few years. I think this has been made pretty clear. So just draft a QB and start him right away. Most likely you will see a veteran brought in, go 0-3 and have the rookie jump in game 4.

The thing that I think a lot of people forget when it comes to tanking is the players that we already have. I mean rookie contracts only last so long and you really think the likes of Minkah are going to be happy with the franchise if they purposely spend at least one yeah of his time here purposely trying to lose?

"Wilkimania wrote:

The thing that I think a lot of people forget when it comes to tanking is the players that we already have. I mean rookie contracts only last so long and you really think the likes of Minkah are going to be happy with the franchise if they purposely spend at least one yeah of his time here purposely trying to lose?

It's not purposely trying to lose. They just don't have a good team right now and a new regime has come in to develop an identity. Ross himself has said that a 2-4 win season this year is very possible and may be beneficial to this franchise going forward. You're going to see guys like Stills, Jones and possibly Howard get traded. They will bring in stop gap veterans to plug in but nobody really worth a damn.

This is what the fanbase wanted and they're going to get it.

"TheHighExhaulted wrote:

It's not purposely trying to lose. They just don't have a good team right now and a new regime has come in to develop an identity. Ross himself has said that a 2-4 win season this year is very possible and may be beneficial to this franchise going forward. You're going to see guys like Stills, Jones and possibly Howard get traded. They will bring in stop gap veterans to plug in but nobody really worth a damn.

This is what the fanbase wanted and they're going to get it.

I don't have a problem with it as long as they have a legitimate plan. Sometimes, reinventing yourself can really pay off and I hope this is the case for us. IMO, the issue is will they stick with the plan or will it crumble because the wins aren't coming fast enough. Communication is the key. If we can keep everyone rowing in the same direction, we have a chance.

"Surfs Up 99 wrote:

I don't have a problem with it as long as they have a legitimate plan. Sometimes, reinventing yourself can really pay off and I hope this is the case for us. IMO, the issue is will they stick with the plan or will it crumble because the wins aren't coming fast enough. Communication is the key. If we can keep everyone rowing in the same direction, we have a chance.

Personally, I just want t escape this 3 year cycle of starting over again and again. For instance, Tannehill ran three different offenses over six years (he was out the 7th)...how much better would we have been as a team if we ran one offense for six years? One thing people overlook in NE is consistency; they stick to the plan and it makes it easier for everyone to execute because they've been doing it for so long. We desperately need that in Miami.

Personally, I don't care what our record is next season or the year after that. We just need to build consistency and you can't do that on a three year cycle.

I think our new head coach doesn’t even consider anything that has to do with losing, doesn’t register..he gameplans to win..

"djphinfan wrote:

I think our new head coach doesn’t even consider anything that has to do with losing, doesn’t register..he gameplans to win..

But, he's also realistic that they're not going to be doing that anytime soon.

“I would say that every week, we’re going to go out there with the idea that we’re going to win a game. There’s going to be pain involved in that, too. There’s definitely bumps in the road. There’s no doubt about that. In this game, there’s ups, there’s downs. That’s part of this game. That’s part of leadership, dealing with adversity. There will be some pain. We know that."

- Brian Flores

"KeyFin wrote:

Personally, I just want t escape this 3 year cycle of starting over again and again. For instance, Tannehill ran three different offenses over six years (he was out the 7th)...how much better would we have been as a team if we ran one offense for six years? One thing people overlook in NE is consistency; they stick to the plan and it makes it easier for everyone to execute because they've been doing it for so long. We desperately need that in Miami.

Personally, I don't care what our record is next season or the year after that. We just need to build consistency and you can't do that on a three year cycle.

Yeah, this is so overlooked on how Tannehill developed. Three different offenses to learn, with different expectations from each coach. It was an awful situation that I don't think most fans truly understood how damaging it was to his overall development.

"TheHighExhaulted wrote:

But, he's also realistic that they're not going to be doing that anytime soon.

“I would say that every week, we’re going to go out there with the idea that we’re going to win a game. There’s going to be pain involved in that, too. There’s definitely bumps in the road. There’s no doubt about that. In this game, there’s ups, there’s downs. That’s part of this game. That’s part of leadership, dealing with adversity. There will be some pain. We know that."

- Brian Flores

what I mean is, this whole staff right now is not thinking about what's gonna happen next year, so I think if they identify a rookie QB that they wanna build around then they will go after him, if they don't, and he's in the draft next year, then I think they will roll with what's on the roster, trade players they don't want for assets, and try their best to win every game, now whatever happens record wise they will live with..

"djphinfan wrote:

what I mean is, this whole staff right now is not thinking about what's gonna happen next year, so I think if they identify a rookie QB that they wanna build around then they will go after him, if they don't, and he's in the draft next year, then I think they will roll with what's on the roster, trade players they don't want for assets, and try their best to win every game, now whatever happens record wise they will live with..

Of course they're going to try to win. They tried last year and got embarrassed by two terrible teams at the end of the year. The talent and drive isn't there. Any talented player they do have right now I would say is on the trade block (Stills, Wilson, Howard, Jones, Drake).

All indication from ownership and the head coach is they know what's coming this year. Bad football. Yes, they will try but it's going to be ugly. I mean the quote I posted from Flores "we're going to go into games with the idea of winning" says it all.

"TheHighExhaulted wrote:

Of course they're going to try to win. They tried last year and got embarrassed by two terrible teams at the end of the year. The talent and drive isn't there. Any talented player they do have right now I would say is on the trade block (Stills, Wilson, Howard, Jones, Drake).

All indication from ownership and the head coach is they know what's coming this year. Bad football. Yes, they will try but it's going to be ugly. I mean the quote I posted from Flores "we're going to go into games with the idea of winning" says it all.

They would be complete idiots to trade young talent in hopes of eventually acquiring young talent.

"AGuyNamedAlex wrote:

They would be complete idiots to trade young talent in hopes of eventually acquiring young talent.

Young talent that will demand huge contracts in a year when they obviously have no interest in winning any time soon.

But then you'll run into the same problem. You'll dump your young talent. You'll develop new talent over a couple seasons, but your team will have sucked for three more years. Now your young talent is looking at new contracts that are going to be more expensive. Do you dump them again and start over? If not, why? Isn't it the same thing as dumping your talent now?

You pay your talent, whether you suck or not, because you've got to keep the talent you have and build around it. You don't just dump your talent because it's time for a bigger contract.

"resnor wrote:

Yeah, this is so overlooked on how Tannehill developed. Three different offenses to learn, with different expectations from each coach. It was an awful situation that I don't think most fans truly understood how damaging it was to his overall development.

The Dolphins need to do a lessoned learned on the Tannehill situation so they can learn from it. I am not excusing his short comings, but I think he could have developed a lot more than he did. The Dolphins probably didn't understand how they could have helped him more or they didn't have the time.

"Rock Sexton wrote:

Things we already knew and 3 prior regimes tried to mold. It's not the talents he has, it's the ones he doesn't have. Let's not forgot over 30 and coming off two ACL recoveries and a bum shoulder.

Personally I don't think the Flores regime has the stones to even attempt a season with Tannehill and risk the blowback that would ensue if they snagged their season on another middling or below average performance like their predecessors did. It's career suicide.

Tannehill is GARBAGE; he should have never been drafted. A thing of the past. I believe management should roll the dice with the backup QB's currently on the team. Build the defense. Articles; I've read, we have serious issues on the D-Line. I don't believe Harris will make the cut, which lies an issue with a player being replaced. Too many studs on the defensive side of the ball to pass up for a QB. I hope management remain true to form and NOT listen to ALL the pundits; regarding selecting a QB this up coming draft.

"Surfs Up 99 wrote:

It's rumored Tannehill might end up at the Redskins. If so, I think he will do well because Jay Gruden is a heck of a coach. Gruden was a QB, and the Orlando Predators kicked *** when he was their coach. IMO, he is one of those guys who gets it and can help his QB's play at a higher level than they would elsewhere.

Please do NOT give Gruden too much credit. He's average at best. Tannehill is a "washed up dish rag" QB. He was never on anyone's draft board; expect the Phins. Let's speak truthfully. I agree an O-line is required for overall offensive success. What I've notice over the years is; the Phins don't have enough quality depth. I hope the new regime will focus; not only on top tier talent, overall team depth also. We're treading in the RIGHT direction under Grier-Flores. I encourage ALL fans to: Keep the Faith!!! Famous words of Sam Cooke; "change is gonna come."