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Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Jan 25, 2019.
For Rosen? #13, right now. Take it!
No way I would. He is extremely similar to Haskins skill set wise. Except Haskins is more accurate, and doesn't the dick head character concerns.
I think that Haskins is ok. I wouldn't cry if we drafted him at 13, though I'd rather we wait to 2020 if that were the case.
But I think that Rosen is truly special. His set up, footwork, throwing motion and arm strength are just so good. As far as his personality, that's all a matter of personal opinion. I love what he brings to the table, others don't. If a team fears or has a problem with an intelligent player who thinks for himself, than that's a problem with the coaching staff, not the player.
As pointed out by PFT, any team that trades for Rosen would only owe him a total of 6.3m over three years of control. That's a hell of a deal for a QB who turned 22 three weeks ago.
I’d take Rosen if the price was right but they going to ask for some silly 1st and 3rd rounder for him
Wow unluckily I didn’t know he was that cap friendly! I’d take him right now for our 13th if they would do it
All QBs deal with pressure differently, your comparison to how Brady deals with it is off, Brady sees things differently, discects before to know where his openings are, stays away from violative situations.
When Rivers gets constricted in a pocket his platform to throw is inhibited, not good news for him..
Only concern with Rosen IMHO is he’s going to need a team around him to lift his play. I don’t see him as able to raise the team above their talent level. Murray. On the other hand while much smaller has the ability to make or break plays with his arm and feet. He’s a spark plug but I’m not sure this new system we’re installing needs that or just a fundamentals guy with smarts.
I'm just saying, when Brady is under pressure, he plays badly. All QBs play worse under pressure.
Seeing reports from CBS that the Redskins and dolphins are in talks for Tannehill.
Anytime you can get a draft pick for a player you are certainly going to cut it is a good thing.
The market for him is a 3rd. We could likely get him easily for a second.
How potential and his salary make him a guy I could get on board with.
Should the Cards choose to trade Rosen, they would eat a 14.38m dead money hit. There obviously is a real question as to whether they would be interested in doing that, as it would decrease their available cap room to about 25m before any other moves. However, if they truly believed in Murray and could get back a first rounder, I think that its plausible. But, given the big cap hit and how otherwise inexpensive Rosen is at 4m this season, I really think that the 3rd rounder business is nonsense.
For his new team, he would then have cap hits of:
He would then also be eligible for the 5th year option as well, but the cost of that would be extremely high, given that he was a QB drafted in the top 10.
Unlucky I’d bite in that 3 years of trial. If we really believe we’re rebuilding and we could get a quarterback without using a high draft position I’d be excited. We can than focus on offensive line and defensive players. 2-3 years of growth together and we should be really good teams
Well, I would too! But I'm also of the opinion that Rosen is the second best QB prospect, after Luck, in the last 15 years. So I'm a bit biased, lol. I'd have drafted him #1 overall in virtually any draft in recent memory.
Im betting Murray skipped most of the combine because he knows he's going to the Cards #1
"mostly preliminary," reporting that the Dolphins are mainly letting teams know that Tannehill is available for trade.''
I wouldnt get my hopes up O.
This just makes so much sense. I don't even think that pulling the trigger on the 3rd rounder would preclude us from drafting a QB this year. Even if Rosen amounted to nothing more than a backup, that would be a really good price to pay for a backup.
If we didn't draft a QB in the 1st, I am absolutely certain that Rosen is better than Rudock and Falk. If Rosen winds up being trash, it would essentially be like tanking (which the Dolphins want to do), and we can draft (or at least attempt to draft) Tua next season. If he pans out, we could have a starting QB that we are essentially paying nothing to over the next two seasons.
Absolutely. You have to give a 3rd rounder up if it were possible.
Read somewhere that Kyler Murray did poorly in combine interviews....like really bad. From Casserly.
yup I read that also
Now before everyone ****s all over Charlie Casserly his is what hes reporting he's hearing from other GM's and sources these are not his words on Murrays talents.
Kingsberry seems not believe these things if they are truly shopping Rosen now. Id trade them our 13 for Rosen and roll 2-3 years with him and see what happens. We can still look for another QB next year if we feel its needed. If he progresses well than were ahead of schedule as we have the future QB already.
Could always be smoke of course.
As for Rosen, I think 13 is too steep. Second rounder maybe. The main issue is the year that will be off his contract - THAT is probably the single biggest benefit of a first round pick, and to lose that absolutely drops value. Plus, it's not like Rosen showed anything that made you think he's a guarantee. You are basically gambling on him being the guy you thought coming out of college, saying the year with the Cards was a disorganized mess for him.
I'd like to draft high this year for a QB. I live in Oklahoma so maybe I'm a bit biased but Murray carried that team all season with no defense to rely on. It was actually the worst OU defense ever (second worst to ever qualify for a playoff game) that ranked 109th in total defense and DEAD LAST in pass defense nationally, giving up 450 yards per game. However, they scored more points per game than any other college team. Put up more points on Alabama than any other team minus the Championship game against Clemson. Murray is fast as lightning and has a cannon for an arm. I wouldn't be mad if we went all in to get him.
As for Rosen, I'd give a 3rd for him in a heartbeat!!
I don’t think he will be there at 13 and we don’t have enough firepower to move up. Plus I don’t believe this coach wants to have a QB that’s not a system QB. You would have to build your entire team around Murray and damn I’d love to see him in Teal, but I’ve given up on that idea.
Let’s hold our horses for a minute.
Josh Rosen has had in his rookie campaign a Passer rating of 66.7 when the league average QB had a rating of 92.9
In Ryan Tannehill’s rookie season he made a passer rating of 76.1 when the league average was 85.6.
Are we really on board for giving up the #13 overall pick for a QB who demonstratably worse than Tannehill?
No. We're not.
A second at best. Preferably a third or fourth.
Well, when I'm looking at a 21 year old QB on a terrible team, I'm not really looking at his stats. I'm looking subjectively at how he played, and what his skills and talents are. Rookie QBs can often have stats, both good and bad, that don't really reflect how they played in a give game.
And comparing him to RT is also a bit unfair, given that RT was three years older as a rookie. When RT was that age, he was a sophomore at Texas A&M. And when he was eventually a 24 year old rookie in 2012, he often threw a lot of shorter, safer passes, whereas Rosen went downfield more often, leading to a lower completion percentage. And truly, saying that one was all that different from the other as a rookie is silly. RT threw one more TD pass and one fewer INT, on 91 more attempts. And even that difference was fueled almost entirely by RTs final five games, when he had a 5-1 td/int ratio.
RT: 282/484, 58.3%, 3294, 12 TD, 13 INT
JR: 217/393, 55.2%, 2278, 11 TD, 14 INT
I like both players! I have been a big fan and a big supporter of RT his entire career as a Dolphin. But Rosen is the better prospect, with the higher ceiling.
Warren SharpVerified account @SharpFootball
Some context surrounding Josh Rosen's 2018 rookie season: •Switched OCs mid-season •Played behind NFL's worst pass pro O-Line & was extremely inexperienced •Extremely inexperienced receiving corps •Of any rookie QB: -Faced most top-15 pass Ds -Faced least bottom-15 pass Ds
Also had the worst rushing offense in football to go along with the worst 3rd and X to go.
This kid may be salvageable.
It's funny how Rosen could have sat on the bench all year and people would praise his potential, but because he got experience playing on a terrible team, that makes him terrible as well. The logic is so wacky.
Last year the evaluators I respect had Baker Mayfield and Josh Rosen as the two QBs worth a damn in that draft. When Rosen started sliding I hoped we could snag him with our pick. But when it came to show time in the big leagues Baker Mayfield stepped up and Rosen didn’t. I know that there is a hell of a lot of differences in their circumstances, but even allowing for that Rosen underperformed.
The logic of the Tannehill supporters, which has been roundly mocked, was that he played OK on a bad team, and imagine how much better he could do on a good team. I don’t think Tannehill’s situation has ever been as bad overall as Rosen faced last year, although I might argue that Tannehill has had worse OLs at times.
We have seen young QBs make huge turn arounds in the last few years, Jared Goff after Fisher, Bakker Mayfield after Hue Jackson. So sure it is possible young QBs can be salvaged after a terrible start. History suggests that huge turnarounds are an exception.
That’s why I would have a lot of trouble for trading our 1st rounder for Rosen.
My solid position on the first round pick this year is - if we draft a QB in the first round it's Murray with #13, no one else. Maybe there's a trade back scenario where we can snag two firsts but not sure if I'd spend one on anyone else, unless Haskins dropped way down.
Other than that, we pick up a QB somewhere from the 3rd round or beyond.
I don't see any point in wasting higher picks on a QB this year when there are some very promising options next year.
There seems to be little to no chance of either Murray or Haskins dropping to 13. Agree that the rest probably aren't worth the value at 13 either, though just because of the position it's a possibility.
The problem is counting on ourselves to be in position to draft a top rated guy next year. If the opportunity presents itself, you have to take it now and not pass it off until later. That said, there just may not be a great opportunity this year. If anything, it might be a draft day call. Maybe if like Murray doesn't come off the board till 4, then the Giants skip QB and suddenly we have a viable trade up for Haskins without giving up a huge pile of assets.
Understood. But since we know we really need a starting QB I don't see the point in just drafting anyone 'just because'. IF - big IF - Grier believes Murray is THE guy then I would, in theory, be okay with blowing up the draft in order to go get him this year. Just because getting one of those types of guys - elite QB - is worth it. I don't personally believe Murray is that guy, so I'd be very nervous if Grier did that, but I understand and agree with the principle.
That's why, if one of those guys isn't here this year, then don't overspend, and next year, if he's there, blow it up and go and get him. Is there a risk? Sure, but there always is. I'd rather risk a big move on a 'big' guy Grier believes in, than waste picks on backups while we still need a QB1.
I thought lock looked better than haskins at the combine. Haskins looks fat and lazy. And his whole life revolves around him getting drafted. And thats all the better shape he could get into? Murray cheated his height and isn’t appearing to be very smart when he interviews. Which will kill you in the pros. (Not being smart that is) But everyone still loves them. Hmmm? Whats the reason everyone is dissing the best qb? Haskins = j. Russell. and murray = manziel. I will take cover now. While the hate is thrown my way.
Haskins is not Russell. Russell was an all time idiot at QB. I can't believe that he was drafted as high as he was. Haskins is much, much smarter. That alone means night and day. I have no idea if he'll pan out, but he's not the guaranteed bust that Russell was.
I was referring to the being fat when he should be in the best shape of his life?
In fairness Russell got a guaranteed contract. And let himself go. But i just question haskins work ethic when he looks out of shape. And runs slow?
ok, I misunderstood. I think that Russell's problems ALL stemmed from what he was missing between the ears.
Otherwise, I could care less how slow a QB is. He's not in there to run the ball.
He may be smart, but there is a point about the laziness in play..which is not smart.
Keenum just got traded with a 7th for a 6th rounder to Washington. We can put to bed any getting anything significant for Tannehill now.