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Dolphins' ground game on pace to be team's worst

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by The_Dark_Knight, Oct 8, 2013.

  1. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I don't mean to sound as if I'm beating a dead horse over the head, but if we can't get a running game going, all of the excitement we had at the beginning of the season is going to turn into angry rants and calls to fire Ireland, Philbin, Sherman, etc.

    I get so annoyed in this now pass happy league that everyone's focus is on the quarterback and that if you have a Peyton Manning, Drew Brees or Tom Brady you don't need a running game. Well as much as I respect those quarterbacks, none of them held a candle to Marino and our 1988 season showed that without a running game, even a god like Marino can't carry the team to glory.

    I'm not giving up on this season but I will say that we need to consider selling the proverbial farm in the off-season to find an Adrian Peterson for next season. If we can't get a viable running game, Tannehill is going to end up like his predecessor, another Chad Henne because our team will be one dimensional and all defenses will have to do is bide their time, sack him left and right or start picking him off left and right.
     
  2. FanMarino

    FanMarino Season Ticket Holder

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    O-Line is more important than selling the house to acquire a stud RB. Miller can be better with a better Line making holes and lanes.
     
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  3. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Agreed that we needed to run better...disagree that we need an Adrian Peterson to do it. Get a good line, that way we can run and pass...with a good oline, we could plug backs in, kinda like Denver from a couple years ago.
     
  4. vizi0n

    vizi0n Boom.. Club Member

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    Would help if they would stop abandoning the run so early.

    Sent from the flappy fap S4
     
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  5. 305

    305 Brawndo Club Member

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    Get off my lawn.
    Boom
     
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  6. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Yeah, I don't think Walter Payton could average 4+ yds behind this abortion of an offensive line.
     
  7. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Would help if runners weren't getting shut down because of run blocking so early
     
  8. byroan

    byroan Giggity Staff Member Administrator Luxury Box

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    Can't start every drive at 2nd and 10.
     
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  9. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    Further indictment on what I think is a sub par unit of an O-Line.
     
  10. Finrunner

    Finrunner Season Ticket Holder

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    It seems like a fine line that's difficult to negotiate. Like is mentioned, you can't start every drive 2nd and 10, but you can't let everyone know your pass/run (or pass/pass/pass) tendencies either. Every once in a while, I think you have to plug it up in there.

    But, really, what's needed is the ability to convert third-and-shorts (a yard or less), getting 3 yards on the first downs you elect to run, and, then, at least the threat of a big run if Miller pops one. So far, though, we can't do the first two of those three (at least against decent run-stopping teams). And even just looking in our division, I think we've got six games where it's going to be difficult for us to run. Cinci won't be easy. Carolina won't. Pittsburgh won't. Not for us. But we do have to find a way to negotiate some rushing yards here and there. If it's read-option. If it's bringing back a fullback. If it's changing around the line (although Philbin seems resistant to that, at least from what's being reported). And though I'm against it in principle because generally you have to pay too much, an in-season trade. Whatever it is, the Dolphins have got to find a way to relieve just a little of the pass-rush burden that Tannehill is seeing by mixing in the run a little more.

    We don't have to be great. But it'd be nice to be capable going forward. Because if we're capable, I think we're just good enough offensively and defensively to win more than we lose. That may translate to 9-7 or 10-6 (both better than 8-8 or worse) and not making the playoffs in a tight AFC (or possibly making it, as well), but we'll be in the hunt... and football will matter in November/December.
     
  11. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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  12. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Particularly note the part where I show that if the Dolphins showed the same level of commitment to the ground game as the rest of the league does on average, their tailbacks would be rushing for 81 yards per game versus the NFL average of 89 yards per game.

    The problem is not our yards-per-carry efficiency. It's our total lack of commitment.
     
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  13. Finrunner

    Finrunner Season Ticket Holder

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    Good article.

    So what is to be made of Sherman's earlier (this year) statement - I'm paraphrasing - that Philbin would have him pass even more? Was he joking around or serious? It seems like it was at least somewhat serious, because in practice (not practice on Mon-Fri, but meaning utilization in games), we've bent more to what Sherman was hinting at rather than away from it. Especially in the second halves, and especially when things get tough.
     
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  14. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    IMO much of the issue is related to the play calling. Part of that is the number of runs called and part is the type of runs called. Increasing the number is self-explanatory. As for the type, I see our OL strength as being Pouncey and Cogs. They should run more dives. It doesn't matter if they only get 1 or 2 yards, it helps keep the offense on schedule and requires fewer deep drops on subsequent plays. I know they want to do the zone stretch, but our Ts aren't mobile enough to run that with any kind of consistency. I don't think there's much value in selling out for a RB and I don't even think that we need to sell out for OL talent. I would take a T in the first in what will most likely be a pick between 15 and 25 assuming the talent in the draft warrants it. I'd look for a mobile G in FA and in the mid rounds of the draft. I'd resign Cogs and keep that side intact. Martin has struggled, but is also improved from last season. I think the struggles look worse b/c since the right side has been so bad you can't provide the usual help that all LTs need. IMO if the right side were upgraded to average, it would be easier for the backs to decide who to block and the OL as a whole would be incrementally improved.
     
  15. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    His lack of breaking tackles, poor hands, poor protection is a bit concerning.i do realize most of his oline cannot function at a hi level.
     
  16. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Philbin's explanation about why they ran so little against Baltimore pretty much told us all we need to know about their commitment level.

    To him it was simple. They're running a 3-WR package as their base. Last week the Saints played that package a certain way to where we thought we could do some things on the ground. This week the Ravens played it differently so the calls went to the air.

    Very cut-and-dried. Black and white.

    The problem is not getting to game day and then abandoning the run at some point. The problem is in the game planning itself. There's no commitment that we're going to run the ball during this game and if they play us a certain way, here is how we'll adapt specifically so that we can still run the football. The adaptation goes from run to pass or from pass to run. There's no adaptation from run to different run, based on how the defense is playing us.
     
  17. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You

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    He seems like a cut and go type runner where if the hole is there, he'll make a play. I'm not sold on him as an everydown back personally.
     
  18. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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  19. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Wasn't there an article that pretty much stated that Philbin does not like running, and that Sherman has to work for the few running plays that he does call?
     
  20. Finrunner

    Finrunner Season Ticket Holder

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    Hey! That's what I mentioned above. And yes, there was.
     
  21. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I don't know. I don't necessarily get to all of the articles written by our local guys.
     
  22. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    I'd go to bat with Miller and a better line moving forward. If he doesn't show 1,200 yard potential, I'd take a serious look at Duke Johnson in 2015.
     
  23. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    If I remember correctly.....I once heard that creating a dominating run game....will also have effects on how well a line pass blocks. If the line is able to generate domination at the point of attack..then you are driving defenders backwords...which is much more taxing on the body then going forwards. I think its a little bit like alpha dog mentality...once you prove dominance over another player...they are more likely to submit in the future. If defenders are being driven backwards...their confidence begins to wane...and our lines confidence blossoms. Perhaps...we need to focus on getting carries to our backs..and some of our pass protection will see improvement.

    There is one good thing to look at. We are 3-2 with the worst of our schedule over.....while having the worst line play we may have ever seen by a Phins line. If we can just get back to being average....damn...we will be in really good shape for December playoff football.

    You know, one more point CK. Perhaps this is why Philbin has said he doenst plan to change personnel during the bye week, because he knows he can do just what you are saying, and get results.
     
  24. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    I think it was something taken out of context, to be honest. It was something to the effect that..Sherman said Philbin wants to throw it 60 times a game....and he has to reign him in some. But, I dont think he meant it as something literal.
     
  25. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    It's Miller's inconsistency that makes it tough to feed him the ball steadily, imo. That, his injury history, and he just doesn't run all that tough, goes down too easily on first contact.

    Out of his 50 carries...
    24 have gone for 2 yards or less (48%)
    31 have gone for 3 yards or less (62%)
    4 account for almost half (101) his total yardage (211)
     
  26. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    You are probably right
     
  27. WhiteIbanez

    WhiteIbanez Megamediocremaniacal

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    When are you people going to realize that Lamar Miller is a bum. All the talk about one cut and go has become total nonsense.
    All I heard was a bunch of whining and moaning about how Reggie Bush would dance around but he was a playmaker and played behind an equally bad offensive line.
    I love the double standard.
    Miller is just another hole to fill moving forward. He shouldn't be starting in the NFL.
     
  28. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    From what I remember it was Sherman saying he appreciates a run/pass balance. Philbin doesn't really care for it much.
     
  29. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I love Reggie but Miller is not a bum. Is he elite? Dunno don't see it. But he's more than capable of running the ball. This one is all on the coaching. They're doing it their way and don't you dare question it. Let's see how it all plays out in the end.

    Last year we ran the ball 27.5 times a game. Is it because we have these new toys (Wallace and Gibson) we want to play with them more? Is it because we lost a much maligned but pretty damn good toy (Bush)? Both?
     
  30. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure Bush could run behind this line either, but we have to try and run the ball somehow, someway. Given that the line is pure crap (3 out of 5 guys) a power back might help the cause. Maybe Daniel Thomas gets the nod from here on out. Thing is I don't think Miller or Thomas is the answer but the O-line isn't helping their cause either.
     
  31. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Seems like the coaching staff is looking for a running game that will operate off the passing game, not vice versa.
     
  32. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Really not sure where those numbers stand comparatively with the rest of the league, especially the 3 yards or less number.

    There are two ways to look at this. You mention 4 of his runs account for 101 of his yards.

    Well, knowing that he's going to break off a big run nearly 1 out of every 10 carries, why WOULDN'T you feed the man 20 carries a game?
     
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  33. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    Run game on pace to be the worst in franchise history...Tannehill on pace to set the sack record...4 straight losing seasons, which hasn't happened since the team's inception....Ireland is helping us set records left and right. Extension!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  34. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Should have just stopped right there. By adding the parts I deleted, you just continue to marginalize yourself into someone nobody listens to.
     
  35. isaacjunk

    isaacjunk Member

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    Well, because then passing is more efficient. 4.5 Yards per play is great if the distribution is tight, that means an endless string of first downs ( and thus scores ). But if it's boom or bust, you might as well pass. From those numbers, you'd be punting 3x before you got a 25 yard run ( and then punting 3x again ).
     
  36. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Is it ever?

    That's what is not being established here...norms for the distribution of runs. We're giving numbers for Lamar Miller's runs with no context for appreciation.
     
  37. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    The truth hurts ck. nothing I said can be refuted.
     
  38. CrunchTime

    CrunchTime Administrator Retired Administrator

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    I miss Ronnie Brown.[video=youtube;7YlbdUhZDbs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YlbdUhZDbs[/video]
     
  39. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Opinions are marginalized and ignored all the time, painlessly.

    You're one-note. Nobody listens to the one-note guy.
     
  40. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    At this point it looks as though your skepticism has weight, i was in favor of letting Reggie go, but also in favor of drafting one of the four backs I loved, we'll see at the end of the year if miller has future potential.
     

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