Dolphins get over the 85% goal
409 replies
With this talk about how some are angry at unvaccinated but would that happen if unvaccinated were saying stuff like "I know there have been many life saving vaccines in the past but this happened so fast and I have trouble trusting these governments and these companies so for now I will take extra precautions to protect myself and others around me until I feel its safe to take them"?
Instead its lies about vaccines even ones we know worked in the past. Its conspiracy theories. Its comparisons to Nazi Germany. Its claims people that take the vaccines are sheep living in fear. Its a dangerous spread of misinformation.
Its not a surprise that people see that and don't just simply go ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
"Fireland wrote:
With this talk about how some are angry at unvaccinated but would that happen if unvaccinated were saying stuff like "I know there have been many life saving vaccines in the past but this happened so fast and I have trouble trusting these governments and these companies so for now I will take extra precautions to protect myself and others around me until I feel its safe to take them"?
Instead its lies about vaccines even ones we know worked in the past. Its conspiracy theories. Its comparisons to Nazi Germany. Its claims people that take the vaccines are sheep living in fear. Its a dangerous spread of misinformation.
Its not a surprise that people see that and don't just simply go ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Might help to get more people vaccinated if this current administration would give an ounce of credit to the prior admin and Operation Warp speed. Perhaps having the VP walk back her prior disparaging comments that I'm sure is still rooted in some peoples mind. They could also stop turning loose unvaccinated people into city's across this country after they've crossed the border from some 150 different countries.
"Den54 wrote:
Might help to get more people vaccinated if this current administration would give an ounce of credit to the prior admin and Operation Warp speed. Perhaps having the VP walk back her prior disparaging comments that I'm sure is still rooted in some peoples mind. They could also stop turning loose unvaccinated people into city's across this country after they've crossed the border from some 150 different countries.
The previous President says its good and he got it. If people trust him then they should listen.
KeyFinforum_veteran"aesop wrote:
The people pushing it have a track record of pushing dangerous medication and being litigated successfully against. This time they are not able to be litigated against but we are supposed to just trust them?
What you said is factual, but you're twisting it as well to make it seem like all medications are dangerous. Large companies in general are sued all the time; that's not an argument to say that every company is out to get the man. I mean, just Google your favorite company ever- Disney, Chic Fil A, or whatever...there's hundreds of cases pending against them. We live in a sue-happy nation.
As far as Pfizer and others having a "track record of pushing dangerous medications", you're telling a half-truth there as well. The vast majority of their medications have passed FDA approval and are used safely when taken as prescribed. Yes, there is an opioid epidemic from people being over-prescribed and from abusing these drugs...but that's 100% on the manufacturers? Doctors and drug addicts don't share any of the blame there?
None of the things you're saying are black and white topics, but you're stating them as an obvious fact and then applying them to vaccines. It's like saying, "Penguins are black and tires are black, so penguins are responsible for global pollution from so many cars on the road." You can't string two facts together to create a fact about something else.
Winning football games at any level comes down to winning in the trenches.
aesopforum_veteran"KeyFin wrote:
Yes, there is an opioid epidemic from people being over-prescribed and from abusing these drugs...but that's 100% on the manufacturers?
It certainly is the majority their fault in my opinion. They spent north of 200 million aggressively marketing deadly and addictive opiates. Hawking doctors to prescribe the shit with hot pharma marketing chicks. Downplaying the addictiveness or outright lying about it.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2622774/
Hence the 26 billion dollar payout a few days ago. Johnson and Johnson being one of the big names.
"KeyFin wrote:
None of the things you're saying are black and white topics, but you're stating them as an obvious fact and then applying them to vaccines. It's like saying, "Penguins are black and tires are black, so penguins are responsible for global pollution from so many cars on the road." You can't string two facts together to create a fact about something else.
This is true, it is not black and white. Then why is it so black and white for the NFL? Why is it black and white for everyone here saying it is "ignorance" and "conspiracy theory" and "misinformation" if someone disagrees with the effectiveness or safety of these vaccines. FDA hasn't even agreed they are safe yet everyone is supposed to fall in line and get injected by these pharma companies who have proven time and time again they are not to be trusted.
Thalidomide anyone?
aesopforum_veteran"Fireland wrote:
The previous President says its good and he got it. If people trust him then they should listen.
Would you care to list all the medications you are taking and any medical conditions you may be suffering from? For my safety? Just need to know if you have aids or herpes or anything that can be transferred to me.
resnorforum_veteran"Fireland wrote:
The previous President says its good and he got it. If people trust him then they should listen.
He said people should get it IF they want it.
My whole argument is around mandating, and punishing those who chose not to get it.
aesopforum_veteran"resnor wrote:
My whole argument is around mandating, and punishing those who chose not to get it.
Exactly. Get it if you want! I'm glad it is available for elderly people to try or people that have crappy immune systems. Having said that, the best defense against the virus is to be in shape, active and eating healthy
In other news, vaccinated people make up 75% of new covid cases in Singapore. Hmm... Maybe the country that these drugs are coming out of has something to gain by lying about the effectiveness.
"resnor wrote:
He said people should get it IF they want it.
My whole argument is around mandating, and punishing those who chose not to get it.
It isn't being forced on you. It isn't being forced on anyone.
Its complete BS to now say that is your whole argument and has been the whole time
"aesop wrote:
Exactly. Get it if you want! I'm glad it is available for elderly people to try or people that have crappy immune systems. Having said that, the best defense against the virus is to be in shape, active and eating healthy
In other news, vaccinated people make up 75% of new covid cases in Singapore. Hmm... Maybe the country that these drugs are coming out of has something to gain by lying about the effectiveness.
I don't understand why this message isn't being pushed as well.
aesopforum_veteran
@7089 you like stats. Looks like a pretty steady slope to me. You would expect to see a big jump in 2020 to 2021 if this virus really warranted the response it is getting.
aesopforum_veteran"Fireland wrote:
It isn't being forced on anyone.
Oh really?
France?
China, where they welded people's doors shut?
It's happening all over the place. Stop with the "misinformation".
"aesop wrote:
Oh really?
France?
China, where they welded people's doors shut?
It's happening all over the place. Stop with the "misinformation".
How is that being forced
From Wednesday, people wanting to visit cinemas, museums, sports matches and other cultural venues will now be required to show proof of vaccination against COVID-19, a negative test, or recent recovery from the virus.
"aesop wrote:
@7089 you like stats. Looks like a pretty steady slope to me. You would expect to see a big jump in 2020 to 2021 if this virus really warranted the response it is getting.
How is 4 million dead going to show up in that? The bigger question is how much value do you place on the millions that die. Or how much value do you place on the 10's or 100's of thousands that die due to misinformation on vaccines.
Cost-benefit analysis clearly favors vaccination, so while this isn't like the bubonic plague or the 1917 flu pandemic, it's still worth pushing for widespread vaccination to limit the damage.
resnorforum_veteran"Fireland wrote:
It isn't being forced on you. It isn't being forced on anyone.
Its complete BS to now say that is your whole argument and has been the whole time
This has been my stance the entire time. I bring up all the other information as that is WHY I'm choosing to not get it.
aesopforum_veteran"cbrad wrote:
Or how much value do you place on the 10's or 100's of thousands that die due to misinformation on vaccines.
Care to explain this one? You just making up "10s or 100s of thousands" of deaths to support your argument? Of course the deaths are tragic but the argument is that far less than 1% will be hospitalized or perish from covid yet the entire world is grinding to a halt while oligarchs get richer and mom and pop shops shut. Is it any wonder why WalMart and McDonalds were allowed to stay open during the pandemic while restaurants and main st stores were forced to shut?
There is no shortage of supplies or beds at hospitals. There is absolutely no reason to threaten shuttering the economy once again like is happening. And the overt pressure from all institutions, even the goddamn NFL, to get this vaccine is absolutely sickening and really a threat to civil liberties which we have been giving up for the past year and a half like they are nothing.
"Fireland wrote:
How is that being forced
Literally anything they want to do besides being in their own home or walking down the street they are forced to show papers. That is not forcing someone's hand? Please.
resnorforum_veteran"Fireland wrote:
How is that being forced
It's called "coercion." When you aren't able to make a choice free from outside influence, that's coercion. When you have to say Yes to an unapproved injection, so that you can go to college, go to work, or go into stores, etc, that is coercion.
Emergency Use Authorization means that you HAVE TO have the right to decline. It's that simple.
aesopforum_veteran"cbrad wrote:
Cost-benefit analysis clearly favors vaccination
For who exactly? Pfizer and Moderna?
Moderna is now valued in the 100s of billions .. they were worth a couple billion before the vaccines. Hmm.
Not to worry though - it's not like these pharma companies spend millions of dollars stuffing lawmaker's pockets on Capitol Hill.
We're the government and we're here to help!!
"aesop wrote:
Literally anything they want to do besides being in their own home or walking down the street they are forced to show papers. That is not forcing someone's hand? Please.
Nope
It was a good try on your part though.
"resnor wrote:
It's called "coercion." When you aren't able to make a choice free from outside influence, that's coercion. When you have to say Yes to an unapproved injection, so that you can go to college, go to work, or go into stores, etc, that is coercion.
Emergency Use Authorization means that you HAVE TO have the right to decline. It's that simple.
They can provide a negative test and still go in
And even if they didn't they still have the right to decline.
I won't disagree that some countries go too far. Feel free to complain about that and I may agree. The question is are you forced to get it? The answer is very clearly no. No goal post moving will change that.
"aesop wrote:
Care to explain this one? You just making up "10s or 100s of thousands" of deaths to support your argument?
There is no statistic per so on what percentage of deaths are due to misinformation on vaccines if that's what you're asking. But when almost all deaths are now among those that are unvaccinated and polls show that people who believe in COVID misinformation are FAR less likely to get a vaccine, that 10's to 100's of thousands of deaths is probably in the right range.
Here's one such poll if you're interested:
https://www.axios.com/axios-ipsos-poll-covid-misinformation-vaccination-rates-0849c642-9999-4568-9769-c1891c5e5291.html
"aesop wrote:
For who exactly?
For a randomly chosen unvaccinated person. Probability of death due to COVID vs. probability of death due to vaccine administration leads to 10x or 100x times more likely to die by COVID. Went through that with resnor.
aesopforum_veteran"Fireland wrote:
Nope
It was a good try on your part though.
Nothing gets by this guy.
aesopforum_veteran"cbrad wrote:
But when almost all deaths are now among those that are unvaccinated and polls show that people who believe in COVID misinformation are FAR less likely to get a vaccine, that 10's to 100's of thousands of deaths is probably in the right range.
Explain this then if that 99% number is true:
I believe it is a bias in reporting. This 99% statistic is obviously bs. Keep seeing people regurgitate it but no actual data.
Regardless, there has been a ton of disputes regarding the classifications of deaths in people with multiple comorbidities dying from "covid" when they were on deaths door already. Elderly people dying in their 70s and 80s is not a pandemic. It is the natural flow of life unfortunately. That's why I don't get a hard on and latch on to "99%!! see!! CDC said 99% so all your arguments are wrong and misinformation even though I don't address them!"
"aesop wrote:
Explain this then if that 99% number is true:
I believe it is a bias in reporting. This 99% statistic is obviously bs. Keep seeing people regurgitate it but no actual data.
Vaccines don't prevent you from getting the virus. I showed a recent paper earlier that demonstrated vaccines reduce the chance of spreading the virus by about half after about 2 weeks. That means that within the first 2 weeks after vaccination you shouldn't see much of a difference. As far as why the percentage of those infected among vaccinated is so high in Singapore, well.. they've administered more doses of the vaccine than there are people in Singapore. So you don't have as many that are unvaccinated as say in the US.
Also, don't forget there's a difference between death due to COVID and just COVID cases. That 99% statistic is about death.
aesopforum_veteran"cbrad wrote:
Vaccines don't prevent you from getting the virus. I showed a recent paper earlier that demonstrated vaccines reduce the chance of spreading the virus by about half after about 2 weeks. That means that within the first 2 weeks after vaccination you shouldn't see much of a difference. As far as why the percentage of those infected among vaccinated is so high in Singapore, well.. they've administered more doses of the vaccine than there are people in Singapore. So you don't have that many that are unvaccinated.
Also, don't forget there's a difference between death due to COVID and just COVID cases. That 99% statistic is about death.
My argument is that the people who were showing zero symptoms from the virus was already very high and the mortality rate has always been very low. People with good immune systems who are in shape and eat healthy, vaccinated or not vaccinated, will not be hospitalized or suffer ill effects from this virus. Why inject yourself?
If you're a fatso, yeah.. you might want to get vaccinated. Maybe? Or at least it is good you have the option. But no doctor, prior to this mess, would advise a healthy person to get vaccinated against something that is not a threat to them.
"aesop wrote:
Explain this then if that 99% number is true:
I believe it is a bias in reporting. This 99% statistic is obviously bs. Keep seeing people regurgitate it but no actual data.
Regardless, there has been a ton of disputes regarding the classifications of deaths in people with multiple comorbidities dying from "covid" when they were on deaths door already. Elderly people dying in their 70s and 80s is not a pandemic. It is the natural flow of life unfortunately. That's why I don't get a hard on and latch on to "99%!! see!! CDC said 99% so all your arguments are wrong and misinformation even though I don't address them!"
Vaccinated people make up 75% of recent COVID-19 cases in Singapore, but few fall ill
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