Dolphins Draft Strategy - They Will Move Up... for a QB

"texanphinatic wrote:

Do you get yourself checked out by a doctor, or just power through it. You may have done things like work through an undiagnosed concussion or cracked bone because you didn't want to go to the doctor and because your pain tolerance allowed it?

It's probably somewhere in the middle of what you and FinD are saying though. Our bodies are all different, some may be more prone to injury or ailment, while others have higher pain tolerance than others. The problem is that we really don't have a definitive way to measure injury risk, and thus go into guessing games and start overthinking things.

No I don't get checked out because I don't get knocked out, have head pain, or pain elsewhere. Knock on wood, but I've never broken a bone, and I'm 41. Some people are just not as able to take abuse as other people. Everyone is different when it comes to bone density/strength, and some people are more prone to certain injuries than others. Pain tolerance is one thing...like two people could fracture something, and one might be able to power through it, while the other isn't able to. That's different than say two people who both experience similar traumas, but one gets hurt and the other doesn't.

Well (myself included)anybody that had even a glimmer of hope of moving up to get Burrow came crashing down last night as he put on another amazing performance against elite competiton.This was the most dominating year for any college Qb in history and now we will miss out on him.

"resnor wrote:

I do think that some people are simply more injury prone. I work with juvenile delinquents, and they can be violent and assaultive. I've never been hurt, but I've seen other people get hurt. Break bones, get knocked out, etc. And I've had to physically manage more kids than most anyone else still with they company.

You are right Res, some people are more prone. I had a DNA test with a health insurance company in the UK (just for my own knowledge, as this insurer are one of the 1st in the UK to offer this so that members can tailor their fitness/eating regime) through my employer and the test showed that I was more prone to injury than standard (but had a faster recovery). I kind of knew this, as was always getting crocked playing sport but interesting that they could finepoint this down to a persons dna

I would trade 3 1st rounders + to move up with Cincinnati. Joe Burrow is the next Aaron Rodgers IMHO.

"Rick 1966 wrote:

I would trade 3 1st rounders + to move up with Cincinnati. Joe Burrow is the next Aaron Rodgers IMHO.

I don’t want to rain on anyone’s parade, I really don’t but has anyone actually taken a look at the history of Heisman Trophy winning quarterbacks in the league?

I’ll give Murray, Mayfield and even Jackson a pass thus far (even though Jackson has been to the playoffs twice already) but the list of these college elites?

Mariotta
Winston
Manziel
Griffin III
Newton
Bradford
Tebow
Smith
Leinart
Palmer
Crouch
Weinke
Wuerffel
Ward
Torretta
Detmer
Ware
Testaverde
Flutie

with the exception of a couple that had some flashes, this is a list of who’s who in NFL failures. And keep in mind, everyone was just as excited about each and every one of them as folks are excited about Burrow.

All I’m saying is Heisman quarterbacks don’t have a good history in the league

"The_Dark_Knight wrote:

I don’t want to rain on anyone’s parade, I really don’t but has anyone actually taken a look at the history of Heisman Trophy winning quarterbacks in the league?

I’ll give Murray, Mayfield and even Jackson a pass thus far (even though Jackson has been to the playoffs twice already) but the list of these college elites?

Mariotta
Winston
Manziel
Griffin III
Newton
Bradford
Tebow
Smith
Leinart
Palmer
Crouch
Weinke
Wuerffel
Ward
Torretta
Detmer
Ware
Testaverde
Flutie

with the exception of a couple that had some flashes, this is a list of who’s who in NFL failures. And keep in mind, everyone was just as excited about each and every one of them as folks are excited about Burrow.

All I’m saying is Heisman quarterbacks don’t have a good history in the league

Most of those guys were never considered NFL prospects though.

Winning the Heisman doesnt say anything about whether you'll fail or succeed IMO.

I'd also argue a few on your list were successful enough to not be on the list of failures.

"The_Dark_Knight wrote:

I don’t want to rain on anyone’s parade, I really don’t but has anyone actually taken a look at the history of Heisman Trophy winning quarterbacks in the league?

I’ll give Murray, Mayfield and even Jackson a pass thus far (even though Jackson has been to the playoffs twice already) but the list of these college elites?

Mariotta
Winston
Manziel
Griffin III
Newton
Bradford
Tebow
Smith
Leinart
Palmer
Crouch
Weinke
Wuerffel
Ward
Torretta
Detmer
Ware
Testaverde
Flutie

with the exception of a couple that had some flashes, this is a list of who’s who in NFL failures. And keep in mind, everyone was just as excited about each and every one of them as folks are excited about Burrow.

All I’m saying is Heisman quarterbacks don’t have a good history in the league

I don't care if he won the Heisman, the kid has eyes in the back of his head. He has incredibly pocket awareness and pinpoint accuracy. He's not going to lose that just because he won a Heisman.

Cincinnati will not trade, they would be foolish to do so. The value of two additional picks is nothing if Burrow is anywherenear as good as Rogers, not to mention how the fan base would react to a QB desperate team passing on a QB like that.

Secondly, saying you should avoid Heisman winners because a number of them were failures is nonsense, basic correlation versus causation.

"resnor wrote:

No I don't get checked out because I don't get knocked out, have head pain, or pain elsewhere. Knock on wood, but I've never broken a bone, and I'm 41. Some people are just not as able to take abuse as other people. Everyone is different when it comes to bone density/strength, and some people are more prone to certain injuries than others. Pain tolerance is one thing...like two people could fracture something, and one might be able to power through it, while the other isn't able to. That's different than say two people who both experience similar traumas, but one gets hurt and the other doesn't.

My wife and I had this conversation not too long ago- there's different types of pain as well.

For instance, I grew up in Davie, Florida and I'm immune to wasp and ant bites. I can literally stand in a fire ant mound for ten minutes and I might say "Ow" a couple of times, but they swell up for 5 minutes and the pain is 100% gone in 5 seconds. My wife will have a welt for a week and she has to take Tylenol, ice down the area, etc.

On the other hand, I cut the tip of my finger on hedge trimmers a few years back- it sliced off the skin and barely got down into the "meat". I thought I was going to pass out from the pain though and it throbbed for a good 30 minutes...it was excruciating! Yet my wife got a similar cut on broken glass and just said "Ow." Or if I slam my knee into something, I'll cuss like a sailor for 3 minutes but then I walk it off and it goes away. My wife will have swelling, a massive bruise, etc. and limp for two weeks.

So I don't think it comes down to "tough" or "wimpy"...we're all just built different and a variety of things can be minor or severe. I mean, I made a freaking scene when I cut my finger that time because the pain was so freaking off the charts, and people still make fun of me about that. I broke both bones in my left arm as a kid plus had a heart attack 5 years ago- the finger pain was 10x worse than both of those combined, maybe 20x worse.

We're all built different though and nerve pain absolutely destroys me- I can't handle it. Yet I don't even register other types of pain that would absolutely floor people.

"KeyFin wrote:

My wife and I had this conversation not too long ago- there's different types of pain as well.

For instance, I grew up in Davie, Florida and I'm immune to wasp and ant bites. I can literally stand in a fire ant mound for ten minutes and I might say "Ow" a couple of times, but they swell up for 5 minutes and the pain is 100% gone in 5 seconds. My wife will have a welt for a week and she has to take Tylenol, ice down the area, etc.

On the other hand, I cut my finger on hedge trimmers a few years back- it barely sliced off the top few layers of skin. I absolutely thought I was going to pass out from the pain and it throbbed for a good 30 minutes...it was excruciating! Yet my wife got a similar cut on broken glass and just said "Ow." Or if I slam my knee into something, I'll cuss like a sailor for 3 minutes but then I walk it off and it goes away. My wife will have swelling, a massive bruise, etc. and limp for two weeks.

So I don't think it comes down to "tough" or "wimpy"...we're all just built different and a variety of things can be minor or severe. I mean, I made a freaking scene when I cut my finger that time because the pain was so freaking off the charts, and people still give me crap about that. But the nerve endings in my fingers are likely more sensitive than average...who knows? I broke both bones in my left arm as a kid plus had a heart attack 5 years ago....the finger pain was 10x worse than both of those combined! We're all different though and our bodies handle it differently.

That was pretty much what I was trying to get at in my back and forth with Fin-D.

Also I think it's harder for people to accept because it comes up so rarely in our lives. If someone is a bit more injury prone than I am, it may never manifest itself in any way because we arent being violent with our bodies.

When you start throwing your body around in a violent way suddenly those insignificant differences have a bigger impact.

"Rick 1966 wrote:

I don't care if he won the Heisman, the kid has eyes in the back of his head. He has incredibly pocket awareness and pinpoint accuracy. He's not going to lose that just because he won a Heisman.

I’m not saying Burrow isn’t going to succeed in the NFL. The kid’s a beast at QB. I’m just pointing out the HISTORY.

I’m not he’s GOING to succeed either. The Bengals are a dumpster fire of an organization at the moment and I’m afraid Burrow’s going to have a severe baptism by fire with that team and in that division.

I really hope a Heisman winning WB can actually break the drought of Super Bowl winning QBs

"The_Dark_Knight wrote:

I don’t want to rain on anyone’s parade, I really don’t but has anyone actually taken a look at the history of Heisman Trophy winning quarterbacks in the league?

I’ll give Murray, Mayfield and even Jackson a pass thus far (even though Jackson has been to the playoffs twice already) but the list of these college elites?

Mariotta
Winston
Manziel
Griffin III
Newton
Bradford
Tebow
Smith
Leinart
Palmer
Crouch
Weinke
Wuerffel
Ward
Torretta
Detmer
Ware
Testaverde
Flutie

with the exception of a couple that had some flashes, this is a list of who’s who in NFL failures. And keep in mind, everyone was just as excited about each and every one of them as folks are excited about Burrow.

All I’m saying is Heisman quarterbacks don’t have a good history in the league

What you’re talking about is some mythical curse with the Heisman trophy.. people like him because of his skills and ability..

i think Joe Burrow has the IT factor to be a great quarterback. Im not trading the farm for him though. He gets bailed out a lot by his receivers.. it will be interesting to see how he does next season with Aj Green John Ross and Joe Mixon. If they can find him a tight end, build that line... then he will be picking up where he left off in LSU.

"Vertical Limit wrote:

What you’re talking about is some mythical curse with the Heisman trophy.. people like him because of his skills and ability..

i think Joe Burrow has the IT factor to be a great quarterback. Im not trading the farm for him though. He gets bailed out a lot by his receivers.. it will be interesting to see how he does next season with Aj Green John Ross and Joe Mixon. If they can find him a tight end, build that line... then he will be picking up where he left off in LSU.

This.

Bottom line is if he came in 2nd for the Heisman this year he would still fundamentally be the same player.

Also most QB coming into the league fail. You can put together a list of almost any college award or achievement and find most didnt succeed in the NFL.

Why? Because more players fail period.

"Rick 1966 wrote:

I would trade 3 1st rounders + to move up with Cincinnati. Joe Burrow is the next Aaron Rodgers IMHO.

Doesn't have the arm and I haven't seen any evidence that he can make the throws that Rodgers can. Not saying that he isn't good but as someone has said already, he is helped by his team and he's only had 1 year of production at college level. Hopefully he doesn't get ruined by Zac Taylor

"Patster1969 wrote:

Doesn't have the arm and I haven't seen any evidence that he can make the throws that Rodgers can.

He can throw pinpoint accurate while scrambling, can find the open man while under intense pressure, almost never gets flustered. He may not have the strongest arm of all the QBs coming out, but it's plenty strong enough for the NFL.

Burrow processes a play as fast as any QB I have seen. He can make every throw in the middle of the field and he made quite a few throws to the sidelines in Monday's game. His only knock is arm strength and doing it only one year but his arm strength is good enough

"adamprez2003 wrote:

Burrow processes a play as fast as any QB I have seen. He can make every throw in the middle of the field and he made quite a few throws to the sidelines in Monday's game. His only knock is arm strength and doing it only one year but his arm strength is good enough

Like I said before, his arm strength has improved every year and should continue to do so for a few more years.

He entered college with incredibly under developed arm strength. His Freshman year his coaches told him he "Throws like a girl"

It's a big reason why he isnt one of those guys that had a great 3-4 year career. He had to work to get where he is now, relying on his other skills until the package was complete.

Does that mean he will succeed? Nope, but I think it's a fair answer to some of the criticisms people have about him.

https://primetimesportstalk.com/2020/01/16/report-dolphins-trying-to-aquire-no-1-pick-to-select-joe-burrow/

True this early? Maybe not. But what do you think of the concept - would you pay this price for Burrow?

Cincinnati Bengals would receive:

• 2020 first-round pick (fifth overall)

• 2020 first-round pick (18th overall)

• 2020 second-round pick (39th overall)

• 2021 first-round pick

• 2021 third-round pick

Miami Dolphins would receive:


2020 first-round pick (first overall)

"Galant wrote:

https://primetimesportstalk.com/2020/01/16/report-dolphins-trying-to-aquire-no-1-pick-to-select-joe-burrow/

Report: Dolphins Trying to Aquire No. 1 Pick to Select Joe Burrow https://t.co/peOt2uXAT8

— Draft Diamonds ™️ (@DraftDiamonds) January 16, 2020

True this early? Maybe not. But what do you think of the concept - would you pay this price for Burrow?

Cincinnati Bengals would receive:

• 2020 first-round pick (fifth overall)

• 2020 first-round pick (18th overall)

• 2020 second-round pick (39th overall)

• 2021 first-round pick

• 2021 third-round pick

Miami Dolphins would receive:


2020 first-round pick (first overall)

Yes. I would pay that.

I'd have to think about it. Burrow for a fortune in draft picks OR Tua at #5 and all those other picks to build the team? If I knew for sure that Tua was going to be healthy, it would be an easier decision. IF Burrow becomes a real franchise QB, the cost to move up is worth it.

Any chance we can add Rosen into the trade package? In place of that 2021 third rounder? In fact, I'll add Howard to the package and our 2021 second rounder to keep our 2021 first rounder.

"Deus ex dolphin wrote:

I'd have to think about it. Burrow for a fortune in draft picks OR Tua at #5 and all those other picks to build the team? If I knew for sure that Tua was going to be healthy, it would be an easier decision. IF Burrow becomes a real franchise QB, the cost to move up is worth it.

Any chance we can add Rosen into the trade package? In place of that 2021 third rounder? In fact, I'll add Howard to the package and our 2021 second rounder to keep our 2021 first rounder.

Rosen has 0 trade value, Howard (assuming X) has little what with the injury and huge salary.

If you feel that Burrow is the only franchise worthy QB, it's a fair price, though I wouldn't tough it if I were Cincinnati. If you think Tua is comparable, then it's a huge overpay. This feels a bit smokey though - Grier saying "look at us, we aren't in love with Tua, we are trying to get Joe" etc.

"Galant wrote:

https://primetimesportstalk.com/2020/01/16/report-dolphins-trying-to-aquire-no-1-pick-to-select-joe-burrow/

Report: Dolphins Trying to Aquire No. 1 Pick to Select Joe Burrow https://t.co/peOt2uXAT8

— Draft Diamonds ™️ (@DraftDiamonds) January 16, 2020

True this early? Maybe not. But what do you think of the concept - would you pay this price for Burrow?

Cincinnati Bengals would receive:

• 2020 first-round pick (fifth overall)

• 2020 first-round pick (18th overall)

• 2020 second-round pick (39th overall)

• 2021 first-round pick

• 2021 third-round pick

Miami Dolphins would receive:


2020 first-round pick (first overall)

I am a huge Burrow fan but I'm pretty sure I hate this idea. Three 1sts, a 2nd and a 3rd to move up 4 spots? That's a massive gamble and I would personally pass. I'm just super conservative when it comes to picks and rebuilding.

At the same time though, I don't think I'd ultimately be upset if Miami pulled the trigger...Burrow is one of the most complete prospects I've seen in a very long time. I think his game will translate to the NFL and he could be a 15 year starter.

This is why I said winning was silly with a roster that needs to be entirely turned over.

Instead of having the #1 pick along with every other pick we acquired, instead we are potentially looking to give up all those other picks we traded for in order to get that same #1 pick.

We made our bed when we won our games. It's time to sleep in it unless you can get away with only losing one first rounder.

A trade like this would show how incredibly inept and pathetic we are as a franchise and would make us a laughing stock.

It doesnt even have to do with whether Burrow succeeds. The fact we used more to do less is sad.

So everyone that was disgusted that we were trading assets to potentially lose for the number 1 pick because "Wilson/Brady/Mahomes/etc were not drafted number 1" are now happy that we potentially trade 5 premium picks to move up 4 spaces to 1 when this is a team rebuild? Wow, no thanks

This is an even sillier idea than taking Tua at #5. Grier would deserve to get fired. I understand everyone's desire to be in the play-offs next season but, this is not how to rebuild a gutted team and I don't want to look like the Redskins for the next decade.