1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Dolphins Draft Strategy - They Will Move Up... for a QB

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Jan 6, 2020.

  1. Carmen Cygni

    Carmen Cygni Well-Known Member

    2,422
    5,731
    113
    Dec 30, 2017
    Gailey pretty much ensures Fitzpatrick will be here for another year, and we can develop a QB or find another some other time. No need to trade up and waste resources on the next few classes. Build the team first before you try too hard or invest too much in order to find a single piece.
     
    adamprez2003 and Hooligan like this.
  2. Hooligan

    Hooligan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    181
    222
    43
    Dec 31, 2018
    Costa Rica
    Amen,, build the team first so that a Trent Dilfer level QB could take it to the SB. That way you'll reduce the chance of whiffing when you do finally select a QB.
     
  3. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    10,325
    3,682
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    The ankles were purely elective. Go read into the Tightrope process. The hip seems to be a freak accident.

    Injuries are a concern, but they were for Drew Brees too, look where that got us.
     
    resnor likes this.
  4. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    307
    308
    63
    Nov 8, 2017
    My understanding was that the ankle surgeries were done to speed up the recovery and lessen the impact of future high ankle sprains - was that not the case?
     
  5. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    307
    308
    63
    Nov 8, 2017
    From the 30 for 30 episode, it dislocated on the tackle and when he rolled over, it popped back into place. The Raiders medical team didn't believe that it had dislocated, so vital time was lost and they didn't find the severed artery until much later - by the time they did, it was too late. I don't think the timeframe was mentioned and knowing what the 30 for 30 people were like, this may not be correct but it was Bo being interviewed and saying what happened to him.
     
    RGF and resnor like this.
  6. Striking

    Striking Junior Member

    1,182
    321
    83
    Apr 21, 2008
    Aurora, Colorado
    Elective or not, his decision was based on his ability to stay healthy and avoid future injury. Will the procedures be successful? We'll see.
    And people landing on you at awkward angles is part of the game. Read up on Dennis Pitta's career and see how it ended
     
  7. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    13,661
    7,818
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    Yeah I mean, what if he had his tonsils out and had a wart removed? OH NO! 3 surgeries in two years!!!!

    Elective surgery is very different from a required surgery. It's not the surgery that is the problem, it's the injury. If he had had two ankle injuries that REQUIRED surgery, that would mean there was an injury. Electing to have surgery to try to prevent injury means there was no injury requiring surgery.
     
    Hooligan and Fin D like this.
  8. Striking

    Striking Junior Member

    1,182
    321
    83
    Apr 21, 2008
    Aurora, Colorado
    LOL. Yeah three surgeries...no big.
    If you have surgery there is a reason for it. A surgeon doesn't recommend surgery unless there is a benefit. And the person has to agree there is a benefit. So Tua sees the reasoning behind the recommendation to have surgery based on his past injuries. At least that's how I imagine a rational person would think and make decisions. But hey, whatever right? Just another surgery. Ha.
     
    adamprez2003 likes this.
  9. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

    35,100
    25,587
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    The reasoning behind the recommendation is so that he can come back earlier from the high ankle sprains.
     
  10. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    13,661
    7,818
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    You understand what elective surgery is, correct?
     
  11. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

    2,156
    1,881
    113
    Sep 12, 2015
    Even if a surgery is elective, you were still hurt in the first place.

    I dont think the surgery being elective or not has any impact on the number of injuries he has had.

    Tua may very well never get hurt again, but let's not pretend there is no concern over his durability. There is.
     
    Hooligan likes this.
  12. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

    72,252
    43,680
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    I think an easy argument can be made that if a player has NOT had an injury or two you can assume the other shoe will drop on them at some point.
     
  13. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

    7,201
    5,405
    113
    Mar 18, 2009
    Every pick counts. Build from the trenches out. O line & D line. Then draft a QB of the future.
     
  14. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    10,325
    3,682
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    Gotta draft a QB when you are in position to do so. If we end up picking at, say, 16 next year, that makes it less likely we find a QB.

    Also, you can - and must - do multiple things. We have a ton of picks and cap space - we will absolutely build on both lines regardless of QB. That said, we have to be realistic. We will not draft and start 3+ rookies on the line. 1-2 rooks and 1-2 FAs is more likely.
     
    Fin D likes this.
  15. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

    11,987
    7,461
    113
    Apr 22, 2014
    If you need a smile on a Monday morning...
     
    resnor likes this.
  16. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

    2,156
    1,881
    113
    Sep 12, 2015
    I dont think you can really argue that.

    Injury IS part chance, but also some players do tend to be hurt more than others. It could just be a string if bad luck, but to imply a guy has more chance of being injured because someone else has been is illogical and I think you know that.

    I'm not saying that is your direct argument but it sort of amounts to that IMO

    Of course guys who have never been injured may be injured before Tua is again, but it's not a consequence of Tua being injured or related in any way.
     
  17. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

    72,252
    43,680
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Do you think more players have not been injured than have the longer they play?
     
  18. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

    2,156
    1,881
    113
    Sep 12, 2015
    That's not really related to Tua at all though, it's a deflection is my point.

    You would never look at a guy with injury history and go GREAT ITS SOMEONE ELSES TURN NOW DRAFT HIM.

    FWIW I'm not saying Tua will be injured again, especially his hip which was a freak accident.

    I'm more saying I dont see how Tua having injuries can be compared to those who dont.

    Also are we talking minor or major injuries? I'd actually wager most players dont have significant injuries very often.
     
  19. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    13,661
    7,818
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    https://www.sandiegouniontribune.co...0/profootballdoc-tua-tagovailoa-surgery-ankle

    just saying, he didn't require surgery. He elected to have a surgery that most don't elect to have.
     
  20. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

    2,156
    1,881
    113
    Sep 12, 2015
    Right, but what I mean is that to have the surgery he had to be injured in the first place, actually on two separate occasions. So whether or not the surgery was elective it's still part of his injury history.

    Also my point isnt that he will be hurt again, just that to pretend it's a 0% issue isnt taking all data into account.
     
    resnor likes this.
  21. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    13,661
    7,818
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    My point is that no one would be saying to stay away because of high ankle sprain. Having elective surgery to try to prevent it again is very different from having to have surgery. Like the article pointed out, his sprain did not seem even close to as bad as other high ankle sprains that have players on crutches and in walking boots.
     
    AGuyNamedAlex likes this.
  22. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

    2,156
    1,881
    113
    Sep 12, 2015
    It not the sprain itself.

    People are all different. Our muscles are different strength, some of our bones and bodies are thicker ect.

    The question isnt whether he will reinjured any specific part, its if hes built in a way that makes him more prone to any injury.

    Personally I dont think there is enough info to conclude that, but questioning it IMO is fair.
     
    resnor likes this.
  23. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

    8,759
    7,215
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Rockledge, FL
    Isn’t that pretty much what the Titans failed at? I mean, they drafted Mariotta, drafted Henry, drafted Brown, built a great OL and none of that worked? Trade for Tannehill and now they’re off and running.

    Build the car then get a driver.
     
  24. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    10,325
    3,682
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    Not at all. They managed to build a good team while ALSO taking a significant shot at QB. They just didn't pick a good one.

    If Mariota had worked out they likely would be further ahead.
     
  25. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

    72,252
    43,680
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    I know people wouldn’t say that, but I’m actually questioning the conventional wisdom on such things. I don’t believe some players are significantly (<———operative word) more injury prone than others.

    I think there’s just different levels of tolerance or drive to play through stuff. I think players like Tua in college are at the mercy of the staff, who tend to be extra cautious with great players. Tua is the type of player to pull a Ronnie Lott. If left to his own devices and will likely play through a lot more sprains and minor stuff in the pros.

    I think players are more likely to get injured than they aren’t if they have at least a 10 year career. So I do think it is a matter of time, if they haven’t been injured before they are injured.

    I know there are certain injuries that mean another of that injury is more likely, but I don’t really think that’s common nor do I think if a guy breaks a leg and also had an ankle sprain (for example) that guy is more likely to get injured again than someone else.
     
    resnor likes this.
  26. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    13,661
    7,818
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    I do think that some people are simply more injury prone. I work with juvenile delinquents, and they can be violent and assaultive. I've never been hurt, but I've seen other people get hurt. Break bones, get knocked out, etc. And I've had to physically manage more kids than most anyone else still with they company.
     
  27. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

    72,252
    43,680
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    I have and had employees that won't come to work with a sore leg, for example. Meanwhile, I've worked all day with gout or my wife will work after being kicked in the knee by A COW.

    I think a lot of times, it comes down to tolerance not injury susceptibility. I doubt Tua has a low tolerance.
     
    resnor likes this.
  28. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

    2,824
    1,394
    113
    Dec 2, 2007
    Prone to illness, low pain tolerance; some people are simply not that durable. Tua is relatively small for a QB and has had a serious hip injury. Those are red flags, but he will add some weight naturally as he fills out and he can build some muscle mass too. He can learn to avoid the worst hits and you can give him a good OL to reduce the hits he takes.

    Will all that be enough to keep him mostly healthy? That's the gamble Miami is looking at. The talent versus risk reward tells me Grier will roll the dice on Tua, so I'm hoping for the best.
     
    resnor likes this.
  29. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    13,661
    7,818
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    I mean, I've been punched, kicked, slammed into walls, never injured. Other people have the same things happen, and they get concussions, broken hands, cracked ribs, etc. The most fragile people I work with are usually the biggest people. Strange.
     
  30. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    10,325
    3,682
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    Do you get yourself checked out by a doctor, or just power through it. You may have done things like work through an undiagnosed concussion or cracked bone because you didn't want to go to the doctor and because your pain tolerance allowed it?

    It's probably somewhere in the middle of what you and FinD are saying though. Our bodies are all different, some may be more prone to injury or ailment, while others have higher pain tolerance than others. The problem is that we really don't have a definitive way to measure injury risk, and thus go into guessing games and start overthinking things.
     
    Fin D and resnor like this.
  31. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

    13,661
    7,818
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    New Hampshire
    No I don't get checked out because I don't get knocked out, have head pain, or pain elsewhere. Knock on wood, but I've never broken a bone, and I'm 41. Some people are just not as able to take abuse as other people. Everyone is different when it comes to bone density/strength, and some people are more prone to certain injuries than others. Pain tolerance is one thing...like two people could fracture something, and one might be able to power through it, while the other isn't able to. That's different than say two people who both experience similar traumas, but one gets hurt and the other doesn't.
     
  32. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

    3,884
    1,452
    113
    Sep 22, 2009
    delaware
    Well (myself included)anybody that had even a glimmer of hope of moving up to get Burrow came crashing down last night as he put on another amazing performance against elite competiton.This was the most dominating year for any college Qb in history and now we will miss out on him.
     
  33. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    307
    308
    63
    Nov 8, 2017
    You are right Res, some people are more prone. I had a DNA test with a health insurance company in the UK (just for my own knowledge, as this insurer are one of the 1st in the UK to offer this so that members can tailor their fitness/eating regime) through my employer and the test showed that I was more prone to injury than standard (but had a faster recovery). I kind of knew this, as was always getting crocked playing sport but interesting that they could finepoint this down to a persons dna
     
    resnor likes this.
  34. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

    6,982
    2,521
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Lakeland, FL
    I would trade 3 1st rounders + to move up with Cincinnati. Joe Burrow is the next Aaron Rodgers IMHO.
     
  35. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

    8,759
    7,215
    113
    Nov 24, 2007
    Rockledge, FL
    I don’t want to rain on anyone’s parade, I really don’t but has anyone actually taken a look at the history of Heisman Trophy winning quarterbacks in the league?

    I’ll give Murray, Mayfield and even Jackson a pass thus far (even though Jackson has been to the playoffs twice already) but the list of these college elites?

    Mariotta
    Winston
    Manziel
    Griffin III
    Newton
    Bradford
    Tebow
    Smith
    Leinart
    Palmer
    Crouch
    Weinke
    Wuerffel
    Ward
    Torretta
    Detmer
    Ware
    Testaverde
    Flutie

    with the exception of a couple that had some flashes, this is a list of who’s who in NFL failures. And keep in mind, everyone was just as excited about each and every one of them as folks are excited about Burrow.

    All I’m saying is Heisman quarterbacks don’t have a good history in the league
     
  36. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

    2,156
    1,881
    113
    Sep 12, 2015
    Most of those guys were never considered NFL prospects though.

    Winning the Heisman doesnt say anything about whether you'll fail or succeed IMO.

    I'd also argue a few on your list were successful enough to not be on the list of failures.
     
  37. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

    6,982
    2,521
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    Lakeland, FL
    I don't care if he won the Heisman, the kid has eyes in the back of his head. He has incredibly pocket awareness and pinpoint accuracy. He's not going to lose that just because he won a Heisman.
     
    AGuyNamedAlex likes this.
  38. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

    10,325
    3,682
    113
    Nov 26, 2007
    Detroit Metro Area MI
    Cincinnati will not trade, they would be foolish to do so. The value of two additional picks is nothing if Burrow is anywherenear as good as Rogers, not to mention how the fan base would react to a QB desperate team passing on a QB like that.

    Secondly, saying you should avoid Heisman winners because a number of them were failures is nonsense, basic correlation versus causation.
     
    Rick 1966 likes this.
  39. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

    6,689
    8,826
    113
    Nov 1, 2009
    My wife and I had this conversation not too long ago- there's different types of pain as well.

    For instance, I grew up in Davie, Florida and I'm immune to wasp and ant bites. I can literally stand in a fire ant mound for ten minutes and I might say "Ow" a couple of times, but they swell up for 5 minutes and the pain is 100% gone in 5 seconds. My wife will have a welt for a week and she has to take Tylenol, ice down the area, etc.

    On the other hand, I cut the tip of my finger on hedge trimmers a few years back- it sliced off the skin and barely got down into the "meat". I thought I was going to pass out from the pain though and it throbbed for a good 30 minutes...it was excruciating! Yet my wife got a similar cut on broken glass and just said "Ow." Or if I slam my knee into something, I'll cuss like a sailor for 3 minutes but then I walk it off and it goes away. My wife will have swelling, a massive bruise, etc. and limp for two weeks.

    So I don't think it comes down to "tough" or "wimpy"...we're all just built different and a variety of things can be minor or severe. I mean, I made a freaking scene when I cut my finger that time because the pain was so freaking off the charts, and people still make fun of me about that. I broke both bones in my left arm as a kid plus had a heart attack 5 years ago- the finger pain was 10x worse than both of those combined, maybe 20x worse.

    We're all built different though and nerve pain absolutely destroys me- I can't handle it. Yet I don't even register other types of pain that would absolutely floor people.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020
  40. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

    2,156
    1,881
    113
    Sep 12, 2015
    That was pretty much what I was trying to get at in my back and forth with Fin-D.

    Also I think it's harder for people to accept because it comes up so rarely in our lives. If someone is a bit more injury prone than I am, it may never manifest itself in any way because we arent being violent with our bodies.

    When you start throwing your body around in a violent way suddenly those insignificant differences have a bigger impact.
     

Share This Page