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Dolphins at Bills -Game Thread

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Deus ex dolphin, Jan 3, 2021.

  1. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Three picks
    One pick 6
    At least one play where he lobbed a ball into triple coverage, and the int was dropped

    Tua was not good. Donkey balls seems like a pretty appropriate comparison.
     
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  2. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    There’s been a lot of piling on regarding Tua. Some of it justified, some of it over the top but there is something though that has indeed been left out of this discussion...

    Buffalo wasn’t 12-3 going into yesterday for nothing. They are indeed a GOOD football team and if I were the Chiefs, I’d be hoping someone knocks them off so they don’t have to face them.

    So let’s not forget that we lost to a damn good team. It’s not like we got the crap kicked out of us by the Jets or some other scrub team.
     
  3. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    Good points and that’s the messed up thing about perspective. Had this happened during our first game and we lost a close one with Buffalo our 2nd game, people would feel better. The outcome wouldn’t be any different.

    The other one is if you asked any Miami fan coming into the season, regardless of any outcome of a specific game, would you be happy if Miami won 10 games, barely missed the playoffs and was in contention for half the season? 100% would have said yes.

    But a game like this will allow negative nellies to let this define the season instead of Miami outperforming the expectation again with the 2nd youngest team in the NFL and probably the most new starters.

    Things are going to be ok. We own this next draft.
     
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  4. Jersey Dolfan

    Jersey Dolfan Active Member

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    What game, and how they lose, does matter though. This was an important game...really important, and the last one, and our guys didn't just lose, or even lose by a decent margin, but were blown out in embarrassing fashion and ran off the field by even the Bills second stringers.

    The guys did not rise to the occasion, and our supposed star QB regressed, which does not bode well for the future.

    I personally don't get too hyped about the 10-6 record. This isn't a college program where we are literally trying to build it in that way. We have had other seasons - like 08 and 16, where we had improved drastically and had an unexpected winning year, only to get stomped out in the playoffs and then never do well again under those regimes. We can't just say "we are 10-6" and pat ourselves in the back. This doesn't feel like last year's where we got stronger at the end and could carry that promise into next season - we are carrying an embarrassing and disapointing loss into next season, and it brings with it plenty of things to doubt. Next year, NE and the jets could be better, and so could other teams in our schedule, and all the sudden we don't build on 10-6, but regress.
     
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  5. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    Clearly, you can see the benefit of a young team learning how to win and playing above their “potential?” So winning 10 games doesn matter. This is a rebuild and we are way ahead of schedule.

    Anyone who thought we were going to go into Buffalo with no run game, no QB and win the game was dreaming. I thought the defense would play better but things spiraled out of control pretty quickly when our offense sputtered and only managed 60 yards in 5 possessions.
     
  6. Destroyer

    Destroyer There for every play.

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  7. Jersey Dolfan

    Jersey Dolfan Active Member

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    "No QB". That right there is a huge issue and reason for people not be feeling great about this season.

    And again, no one is saying that if we didn't beat buffalo the season was a waste. What they are saying is that getting absolutely embarrassed, and partially by buffalo's second stringers, and ran off the field as if we were the Jags or Jets, in a must win game, is not encouraging in any way. Just like in 08, and 16. We showed that despite some good bounces during the seasons we did not belong w the big boys. That's scary.

    Again, I don't care for the"ahead of schedule" thing. What makes us ahead of schedule other than the record? If Tua was lighting it up or showing confirmed big time promise, or the D had been competitive against Buffalo, even in a loss, we might be ahead of schedule.

    But the fact is, we were "ahead of schedule" making the playoffs Sporanos first year when we won the division, or Gase's first year when we made the playyoffs, and then we were behind schedule for many years after each of them. What worries me, is that those were similar seasons in some ways:

    '08 - gimmick wildcat carried us, and Chad Pennington. Also had weak schedule. Blown out in playoffs.

    '16 - Gase gave in to Ajayi and started running outside zone. Blown out in playoffs.

    This Year - Defense scored on some wild plays and turnovers in a few key games. Fitz bailed us out in one game and we had a miracle catch. Had weak schedule in hindsight. Blown out in game to make the playoffs.

    Now look, I'm not saying that this season doesn't look more promising than the other two I mentioned. It does. It does bc Flores and Grier seem to know what players to pick up, and how to develop them, and the culture seems to be getting much better. Flores looks like the real deal to me - more than Sporano, and WAY more than Philbin or Gase.

    However, the question mark at QB, after drafting what was supposed to be a generational talent, and the fact that we were straight up curb stomped in the most meaningful game of the year, against a division rival, rightfully puts a damper on the narrative that this team is "ahead of schedule" and the only reason people are upset is bc it was the last game, and anyone would have taken this season. What if we never get past the Bills? We will never be on schedule then. What if we always choke in big and important games, then we will never be a contender. That's what people saw yesterday that dampens the season and any goodwill built up over the year.

    Actually if you had told me that we were going to be 10-6, miss the playoffs, and get utterly embarrassed by the Bills last game of the year, plus Tua wasn't going to be impressive, I really wouldn't have signed up for this season. I'd rather you'd have told me we went 7-9, but played the bills tough on the road at the end if the year, losing a tough one, and Tua was undoubtedly everything we thought he would be and took the reigns from fitz, never looking back bc he sparked the team and is their solidified leader.

    Overall, I understand why people are concerned and dissapointed. It ain't bc they are negative nellies.

    I'm a 30 year dolphin fan, which is basically my whole life, and I am legit worried now and dejected, bc I fear I've seen this movie before, and I have good reason to fear that.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2021
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  8. Hooligan

    Hooligan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    On the bright side, we're the best team of the ones that didn't make the play-offs. Yeah, in a field of 18 teams, we're number one.
    We're number one.
    This was a season like no other. Because of the Covid it shouldn't really be taken too seriously.
    We finished 10-6 but, we played the Jest twice, Jacksonville and, Cincy. We could very easily have been 6-10.
    Can you imagine being an Alabama fan and looking forward to Adam Gase as your new OC next season?
     
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  9. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    I’ve been a fan for 37 years so I feel you. My point is you’d have to be a negative nelly not to see the impact of Flores coaching or that we won games this year we shouldn’t have or at the very least more than a team who had a complete overhaul of their roster last year would be expected to win.

    We can talk about Tua all we want and there are threads already covering that. I don’t think he’s the answer. I think Fitz would have at least had us in that game but like my old football coach used to say, “If if’s and buts were candy and nuts, it would be Christmas all year round.”
     
  10. Jersey Dolfan

    Jersey Dolfan Active Member

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    Haha.

    And def agree with you man. I love Flo. And think he is the future for sure.
     
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  11. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    Good for you If that‘s appropriate and make him (Tua) the main reason why we lost the game…
     
  12. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    I don’t know if there’s a main reason for a 30 point loss in the NFL. It’s pretty much a total team failure. But he was a significant factor in that
     
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  13. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    I think the D and special teams had more to do with that then Tua and I think he was not as bad as people make him considering the circumstances.
     
  14. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    well our offense didn’t move for 5 drives. We got a turnover in scoring position and settled for a 3. Our defense got us that 3. What happens when a defense going up against a MVP caliber QB is on the field non-stop?
    Also, what’s the win rate of a game when your QB throws 3 INT’s and one of them is pick 6? I’d guess less than 1/2 of 1%.

    defense and special teams also deserve blame
     
  15. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    Buffalo is a great team with a good coach. Expecting him to play lights out beeing down 28-6 Halftime not getting help from his recievers, he could have done much worse for a Rookie imo. But hey, I‘m not married to that guy and a strong believer in Flores and I don’t think he will hang with Tua to long if he doesn’t think he can handle business.
     
  16. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think it's also important to remember these things when talking about those interceptions:

    - The pick 6 is a hard one to put on Tua. Looked like Norman had alot of contact with Parker causing him to fall which I thought could/should have been a penalty(but it could have been inside 5 yards). Either way though I can't really fault the QB for his WR falling to the ground after the ball is thrown.

    - One was deflected off the Ford hands. The throw was a bit high, but a NFL caliber receiver (which Ford is not) should probably make that catch.

    - The last one was an awful throw and almost INT's were pretty bad too IIRC. However, that being said they came at a time where defense got pretty easy for Buffalo knowing we were likely passing every play.

    Not trying to make excuses here but I think we have to remember that when we look at these 3 INT's. It wouldn't change the outcome of course, but I have a hard time just going "Hey Tua... you suck. You threw 3 picks in a must win game." While that's true... the context is important IMO.

    I'll also say this; no matter which QB played yesterday we were likely to get smoked. That Buffalo offense is on fire & dangerous.
     
  17. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Three bolded part is the exact thing we are discussing. Lol.

    We should have a QB. We took the top prospect at #5. It isn't like we took a flyer on a guy in the 3rd or 4th round. If that's where Tua was taken, there wouldn't be this reaction happening. The fact is, our top 5 pick is playing like he was a 3rd or 4th round draft pick.

    That's a problem.
     
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  18. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    That’s how I saw it too, the pick six was a little funky but you could put that on Tua as well if you really wanted to. I think there is some talent there but if he doesn’t improve we need a new QB but as of now I trust our new regime to get that decision right.
     
  19. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Here's the thing, when you're down multiple scores early in the game, a large part of your playbook and strategy goes out the window. The only thing left to do is attack because the picks no longer matter...either you attack or you lose.

    For instance, people mentioned that Fitz threw a pick at the end of the Denver game. Would you rather him run for three yards or throw the ball away as time was expiring? The only option there was to fire away and hope for the best....that's what the game commanded to have any shot at all.

    A lot are overreacting because this was the first time Tua was in that situation. He clearly "failed", but in the NFL you're not supposed to come back from huge deficits without an elite QB. Tua simply wasn't ready to lead a team like that.
     
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  20. Phil Hutchings

    Phil Hutchings Active Member

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    As I said earlier, the second quarter killed any hopes we had of winning the game.

    Once we were down by that margin, Buffalo could easily control everything.
     
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  21. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    My problem was early in the game when it still mattered our offense failed to function as it has with him in previous games.
     
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  22. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    You must not have watched the game. Did you watch how the freaking first half ended??
     
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  23. MediocrityLivesOn

    MediocrityLivesOn Member

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    I live in Maryland myself and ask myself why I never cheered on the Ravens lol. But I’m stuck with the Dolphins through thick and thin.
     
  24. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Let's play an imaginary game, where those 3 picks didn't happen, and instead Tua lead three TD drives. That's another 21 points. Since one of those ints was a pick 6, take 7 points off the board for Buffalo. That makes the final score 47-49. Suddenly three picks does really change the game.

    Or, let's say instead of the picks, the drives stall and they punt, and maybe get then pinned deep. Let's say the defense stops those 3 drives of Buffalo, and they have to punt on all those drives. That's 21 points off the board for Buffalo, and that makes the game 26-35.

    Three picks always changes the game. I can't believe we're just trying to overlook 3 picks in what was essentially a playoff game, against playoff level competition.

    Look, I'm not saying I expect Tua to actually beat Buffalo in a game like that...but it's like him to look a lot more competent in the loss than he looked to me.
     
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  25. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    That sounds a lot more reasonable, then what you wrote before and I agree with you that he has to improve but there were things to like even in that loss imo. and of the 3 Int‘s you can put 2 1/2 on him if you really want to but he’s a Rookie coming of a major injury.
     
  26. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Absolutely- I'm not trying to say any different. But we all knew that the defense and special teams were going to have to win that game...it wasn't going to be the offense without short fields and easy opportunities. Buffalo dominated field position the entire game though.
     
  27. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I think where we really disagree is where we think his ceiling is. I went to bat year after year for Tannehill, because even as a rookie, I saw things in him that I really liked, ands I thought he could be a stud.

    I don't see that with Tua, and, again, that is based not off this season. That is based off my watching him throughout his college career. Go check my posts before the draft, I was not on the Tua train. What he's shown this season only reinforced what I thought about him while watching him at Alabama.

    Tua might (probably) will end up a decent QB. He's this decades Ted Ginn. Was never good enough to deserve where he was drafted, but barring injury could stay in the league, like a poor man's Pennington.

    But that isn't what we dropped the 5th pick on, and that isn't what's going to turn around a franchise.
     
  28. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    I always liked Tannehill still do, but I think the breakup was necessary for both parties and I'm not sure if Tannhill would be playing like he does if he still was here.

    For Tua, I didn't want him in last years draft because of his injury history and I didn't see the athleticism of a Kyler Murray. My wish back then was take a QB in this draft and if we had to take one last year my Nr. 1 was Burrow, but we couldn't get him so I was hoping for Love or Hearts. But I can't change who we drafted and I must say, Tua did grow on me and I do see things that I really like, that's why I would like to see what he has to offer next season and I don't see the need right now to go QB with our first pick + I haven't really watched film on the QB's in this years draft and I don't think Lawrence will be there...
     
  29. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    Yep, you don’t draft a game manager at #5. You draft a QB who can be the best in the league.

    I’m sure as we improve the OL, RB and WR around him, he’ll get better. But what’s gonna happen when we’re deep in the playoffs, facing a good defense with corners that minimize those passing windows. Can Tua win us the game? To me, he’s not that person.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2021
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  30. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Well hopefully we’ll have receivers that won’t drop the dang ball!!

    It wouldn’t surprise me one bit if Parker isn’t shopped around the league to see what we couldn’t get for him. It’s quite sad, if you think about it that our most potent receiver is the same guy who was out on injury his first 3 years in the league and couldn’t catch a ball to save his life.
     
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  31. Fin2027

    Fin2027 Member

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    I'm curious about this, and to be honest I'm not sure which one I would choose.

    If we had.to pick, would we choose the situation of the Charges where they seem to have a legit QB and bad HC, or do you feel comfortable with our better HC and Tua (who has lots to prove)?
     
  32. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    HC is more important because he can affect the entire team. A full coaching turnover is more disruptive than a turnover at QB position, so I'd definitely want the right HC first, which I think we have in Flores.

    Thing is, the QB is so important in today's NFL that if that HC never gets the QB position right, the HC is likely to fail too (some exceptions of course). One of the best examples is Cowher. Had a playoff calibre team most of the time but couldn't win the SB until drafting Roethlisberger.

    So Flores needs to get the QB position right, whether it's Tua or not. Otherwise, he won't see much playoff success. But yeah I'd rather be the Dolphins than the Chargers.
     
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  33. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    The thing is I believe even a good HC doesnt survive picking a dud at QB.

    So honestly I'd rather be the Chargers. It's harder to find a star QB than a good enough coach.
     

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