Dolphins@Arizona notes and opinion

I think he runs a ton of option routes, and Tom Brady has impeccable timing.

Those two guys I mentioned can duplicate what Welker does.

 

He does run a ton of option routes but there's a lot that goes into that. It helps to have Brady throwing him the ball, no doubt, but don't you think Welker deserves some credit for what he's done too?

He did the same at Texas Tech by the way and Tom Brady wasn't throwing him the ball there.

 

Welker is better than Bess, Amendola is in the same class as Wes though. His quickness route running, intellegance and short bursts are unprecedented.

 

I don't see them as producing similar results, at all. Marshall is much more productive.

 

Then who? Not than Bowe, Welker, or even Hartline this year. He produced more in Denver, but that's 3 years ago now.

 

you missed one of the arguments in between.

 

I am not a fan of his. I think Wes Welker is one of the biggest frauds ever perpetrated in the NFL. There is not a single player in the NFL that has had his hand held by a Off. Coordinator more than Welker. It's as if HE designed their system.

 

Marshall's two years here weren't too bad either.

and again, did you see Marshall's game on Monday?

 

Having a great game here or there, is not a great receiver. Hartline will have a great game on occasion. Naanee never will. Megatron has them all the time.

 

He's more productive than Hartline.

And he's on par with Bowe and Welker. Has been for the past 5 or so seasons. Yes, including the seasons in Miami.

 

"All the time"? no.

That is not what I was talking about.

There was not a corner playing better than Brandon Carr going into that monday night game. Brandon Marshall embarrassed him, and made big catch after big catch, while dominating a very good corner.

There are few receivers that can do that. Hartline is not one of them.

 

Not being a fan of his doesn't mean he's not skilled, however. I'm not a fan of Santonio Holmes but I'm aware of his skills. System or not, Welker's been doing it for quite a while against strong competition and in different systems.

 

every single one of his option routes has little to do with him, and everything to do with Brady and their system. If you take away his spoon fed production, he fits with a whole gaggle of WR's.

 

I don't find that to be accurate.

 

He's been more productive, but not this year. I said when these group of players are in the right situation for them they will thrive. You aren't arguing what I said.

 

In that case, your argument is funny. It's been 4 games.

Who do you think will be more productive by the end of the season? Hartline or Marshall?

 

so you don;t think I can find at least another 20 guys that can run the correct option routes and catch the ball consistently?

 

Whether you can or can't, it doesn't mean he lacks a strong physical skill, which is the root of this argument.

For the record, if he continued his career in Miami, I don't think you'd be saying the same -- and that's not because he wouldn't be in New England's system or Brady not throwing him the ball.

 

PFF rates Clemons as the 14th overall safety. Fasano is the 6th overall TE. Marshall is the 85th overall corner, so going by the ratings at each position, right now Marshall is our worst starter.

 

There's nothing funny about it. I think there's a large group of average receivers who can be very productive in the right system. I think Marshall is one. I think Hartline is another. I think Hartline would out produce Marshall in this system. I think Marshall would outproduce Hartline in whatever you call our system for the last 2 years. What's funny is wanting to split hairs and say Marshall is slightly better than that but not elite so we need another category.

 

had he continued his career in miami, he would be a gone and forgotten player in the same vain as Mark Ingram and Lamar Thomas.

and the root of this argument was that Welker was a "standard" for what a great WR is. I suggested that he is pedestrian, and not a guy to point to as any type of standard to measure anybody by.

 

right on schedule.

 

I severely disagree that Hartline would out produce Marshall in this system.

I'm not splitting hairs. I'm not saying Marshall is slightly better, you are. What I'm saying is Marshall is a very good receiver who is close to elite and Hartline is an average/ above average receiver. There is nothing close between the two talent or production wise. Marshall is much better.

 

Hartline would not be more productive than Marshall in ANY system, and there is NOTHING "average" about Brandon Marshall.

There are only THREE Elite receivers, so yes, there needs to be a category above average.

 

I don't believe you'd be discussing him the way you are.

The root of our argument was the skill of Welker.

 

I would need to see him catching a number of balls that are thrown far in the air that puts him in the company of the guys who do that very well in the league. Do you happen to know where he is in that regard? By that I mean balls that have been thrown 20+ yards in the air.

Of course the whole idea there is to use that as a metric for one's being a downfield threat. The idea is that guys who are downfield threats get open behind the defense and catch balls that way more so than other receivers.

 

Great technique is an acquired skill.

 

Yes I would. I thought he was a fan favorite and I would have vomited if we broke the bank to pay him. I thought that a #2 and a #7 was beyond his value.

 

exactly. it also happens to be a trait that MANY WR's have.

 

OK then.

 

If you remember back then, I advocated trading him. and you know what? I STILL support that trade. His skill set would have been wasted here. The Patriots cashed in on his value. Good for them, good for us.

They of course, could have found Danny Amendola or Davone Bess, and saved themselves a #2 and a #7, along with millions in cap charge.

 

What skill-set?

 

consistency in catching the ball against zone coverage and in the slot against safeties and linebackers in M2M.

The one thing Welker is very good at is receiving the football into a quick tuck.

The Dolphins would have needed a hall of fame QB to threaten defenses into using rudimentary coverages against our diminutive wr.

Point being, we replaced Wes Welker (Davone Bess) and gained two picks, one of them being a #2. That is a win win IMO.

 

There is a gap in ability between Bess and Welker. And an even bigger one between Hartline and Marshall.

 

There's multiple things he's good at, I believe.

I won't argue the rest. No point to.

 

Except that Hartline is producing Marshall like numbers now, now that he is the main target. Marshall is not near elite.

 

I disagree. The difference between Marshall and Hartline this year, is less than the difference between Marshall and Megatron.

 

Again, 4 games.

If he's doing this the entire season, then you can compare the two. Until then, not even close.

 

I don't see it.

 

Its a quarter of the season. Virtually everything that measures progress or performance goes by quarters.