He is out-producing all of those guys in my list, so he is the best receiver in the NFL right now. ELITE. WR position solved, let's move on to CB, FS, and TE
No, he isn't outproducing them necessarily. My entire point here is that Brian Hartline's high yards per target is indicative of his ability as a WR. But in terms of YPT, he isn't ahead of most of the guys you mentioned. His YPT is 9.4. Calvin Johnson is 9.8. Andre Johnson is 11.2. Hartline is around the top-15, not the top-5.
SO his 9.4 just merely makes him one of the greatest WR in Dolphin History...I am cool with that. When is the ring of honor ceremony?
I think Philbin's goal is to have a bunch of #2s who can get open and catch the ball against single coverage. (IMO a #1 draws double coverage and still catches some of those). I think we have two guys that fit what Philbin wants in Hartline and Bess. Hopefully, out of Gaffney, Armstrong, Matthews et al. we'll find a third WR that can do the same. I also think we still need a TE who can do the same while threatening down the field since Egnew and Clay haven't shown they can do that.
I don't understand how when BMarsh produced like Hartline has been, its because he's great and it was crazy to get rid of him, but Hartline isn't great for producing similar stats. FTR, I think the whole WR position is overrated these days. Not that they aren't important, but that the three levels of talent: horrible (Naanee), average (Hartline) and elite (Megatron) is a huge pool in the average category and lot of players we are freaking out about belong in that category, like Marshall, Bowe, Jennings, etc. These are guys that can be really good given the right system and environment and Hartline, obviously belongs in that category.
Can we agree that he is better than Hakeem Nicks, Brandon Marshall, Victor Cruz, Jeremy Maclin, Roddy White, Julio Jones, Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, Percy Harvin, Miles Austin, Dez Bryant, Desean Jackson, Vincent Jackson, Marques Colston, Steve Smith, AJ Green, Reggie Wayne, Dwyane Bowe and Mike Wallace?
This is probably good enough for you, but it's not at all what I said. Brian Hartline isn't Larry Fitzgerald and he doesn't need to be. The fact that he isn't Fitzgerald's peer physically doesn't mean people need to make up a bunch of dumb **** why what he does on the field really doesn't matter, and it doesn't mean he can't be a top receiver either.
He can be a better wide receiver than a lot of those players, and through week 4 of this season he has been.
I fail to see how Hartline compares to Marshall, Jennings or Bowe. IMO, you're missing a category in between average and elite. That's where I see Marshall.
He is physically incapable of being better than ANY of those guys. Either by height, speed, or shear skill.
I wouldn't put Hartline above most of those guys. Many of those WR's talents allow them to draw and beat double coverage. Hartline's production is a product of many factors beyond just his talent level. For example, that long TD he had in the last game was a product of the system, it wasn't a product of elite level talent.
Blasphemy!!! You obviously only know football by playing madden, and are being brainwashed by the Ireland hater illuminati club.
That's really stupid bull****. Is he incapable of being better than Troy Williamson, Braylon Edwards, Mike Williams, Ted Ginn, Michael Crabtree, Roy Williams, Reggie Williams, Charles Rogers, etc.? It's a really stupid argument in a league where Wes Welker might be the most consistently productive wide receiver.
You're dramatically overrating the amount of actual, designed double coverage that most all of those players see, and most certainly are able to cope with. Double coverage outside a receiver entering a zone coverage while being covered by a man-coverage defender is not all that common.
I like Clarrett, he stripped an all american Saftey of an interception that was HUGE in the national title game, then had the GW touchdown run in OT. Just a few fun facts for those who never get past the defensive holding/illegal contact/P.I penalty. Hartline and a #1?? Would be nice...but appearenrly so is 3rd Rd picks.
Not if you count the times where Ss shade over or the times the defense goes into shell coverage because they don't want to get beat over the top by that one guy. Those situations may not be complete double coverage where two guys follow one, but they open holes in the defense that your other targets can exploit. Those are effects you get form #1 WRs that you don't get or at leas get much less often from your #2 WRs.
Did I put those guys on the list? No. Hartline is more skilled than those guys. I think I found your problem. You actually think that what Welker does is a special "skill".
He doesn't match up physically with any of those guys on the list either. Your list is entirely about physical characteristics. There's nothing else.
If Welker isn't better because of skill, then would you say it was because of scheme or QB play? And if that kind of production can consistently be gotten from an average WR based on scheme or QB play, then maybe the way this board and many other people view WR skill sets is incorrect?
By all means look at Romo's first INT on Monday night that was caused by Bryant not adjusting his route. You don't see Hartline making mistakes like that.
If Welker didn't possess any special skills, why did NE spend a draft pick on acquiring him? Couldn't they just find any Caucasian on the street?
riiiiight. The list is ONLY about their height and weight and has nothing to do with all of them out performing Hartline their entire careers on the stat sheet and on film. I just made that up. IN fact, I have been busy this morning doctoring video and stats of the last 3 years.
It's not the slightest bit improbable that a young player like Hartline going into a new offensive system with a new player throwing the ball results in a pretty impressive degree of growth.
Welker has great short area quickness, balance and hands. He also has a great feel for finding voids in the D. He lacks the height, strength or speed to be a consistent play maker on the boundary, though. So he has skills that allow him to excel in certain systems, but only be average in others. System fit is an incredibly important factor in player production.
No. Welker is the luckiest man in the NFL. He is exceptional at nothing, and can be easily replaced by any numbers of players like him, including some of his "clones".
The only skill he has IMO, is that he consistently catches the ball. he is no better than Danny Amendola, and he is no better than Davone Bess.
I disagree, because I see these guys as flawed. Hartline doesn't have the measurables but has the mental stuff. BMarsh has the opposite. Its easy for people to get excited about the measurables because they are quantifiable. In reality, if both are in good positions team and scheme wise for each individual, they'll produce similar. The only difference really is that the mental stuff can be cleared up for a game or two so guys like BMarsh could be beasting it that day....but its unpredictable.
Of course it can. But I also recognize his limitations, which I don;t believe can be overcome by a "system". But, YES, he is now a clear cut #2 in the NFL, and is developing well beyond expectations.
A lot of his productivity comes from recognizing what the defense is doing both pre and post snap and adjusting accordingly. Alen is probably the best guy to talk to for the specifics, but looking at stuff he's posted in the past shows where their system seems to be built for that.
Absolutely, and thats one of the best things about Hartline. A great WR needs to understand defenses as much as his QB. Its why guys like Dez Bryant will never perform to their physical ability.
You say "no" then contradict that by saying any number of guys could replace him. Of course lots of guys could replace him, that's the point.
