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Dolphins announce they will be staying inside for anthem

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Puka-head, Sep 11, 2020.

  1. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Completely agree. My whole argument is that I don't think we have a good enough understanding of the factors involved in this case, so that we can truly understand the legal ramifications of trying to convict Chauvin of say, murder.

    We have a video of a terrible situation, and most people are coming to conclusions based on the video, without regard for how things could shake out legally.
     
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  2. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Lots of articles that give a good overview. Here's one I like: https://slate.com/news-and-politics...ate-all-the-problems-with-our-government.html

    Essentially, it's a good red herring policy to distract with, but it doesn't provide any benefit on its own.
     
  3. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yeah, I'm just not interested in being a politician and everything that goes along with it...although I would love to see real change.

    Quick story- I met with a state senator after leaving the prison about 15 years ago. He had me drive down to the capital and we went to lunch, and he explained how everything works and you can't do anything on your own. So that completely turned me off to public office...why would I want to go there and socialize with/depend on people who were the ACTUAL problem? It honestly makes me sick to my stomach thinking about it.

    I did get a great story from him though. Every Friday night, they play poker with lobbyists at their condos (every state senator gets a free condo across from their senate building). These lobbyists go to the games to hang out and discuss their causes, but they also purposely lose to keep the room's interests. This senator told me that you'll frequently see a lobbyist sitting there with a full house, another senator raises them with a pair of sixes, and the lobbyist calls...only to fold before the final card is turned.

    The average corrupt politician there walks out with $5-10k in spending money every single week. So that got me thinking, maybe I do want to be a state senator after all, LOL. Free condo, $10k a week in cash plus the salary and benefits? I still wouldn't support or introduce their bills though unless it was something that I was already passionate about in the first place!
     
  4. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    We need more politicians with this attitude.
     
  5. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    You don't necessarily need to get money out of politics with regulations. You just need to educate voters that they should be voting for people like Elizabeth Warren, who've publicly pledged not to take money from corporations. If that's effective that'll get the money out of politics.
     
  6. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So it's ok to kill them since they have the full weight of the justice system. And that argument that it's largely of their own making can be used on the other side of the argument also. A blue life is a "nonexistent concept" is the problem in peoples thinking.
     
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  7. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    You're pulling out a strawman bro. In no way shape or form did I say it was "ok to kill them". Be embarrassed at that weak trash.

    A "blue life" is nonexistent. It's a choice, a job. Nobody is born blue. Being black isn't a choice. That's not to say that it should be open season on cops, because that's heinous, but rather to point out that the concept of "blue lives matter" didn't become a thing until people had the audacity to say black lives mattered. Police sticking their head in the sand to carry on with business as usual instead of addressing obvious and evident problems with the profession isn't going to help them and will only cause even more.

    And no it doesn't apply to the "other side" (a whole logical equivalence fallacy in itself) because the "other side" doesn't have the power and authority. It's up to those in power and those with authority to earn respect and trust, not the other way.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
  8. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    Just a reminder to keep it calm guys. This thread has been doing well. Please let's continue on that way.

    Following on, I will say that entrenched views aren't going to advance us much. I think we have to start with what's concrete and everyone can agree on and build from there.

    So for example, I've never been convinced by critical race theory, identity politics or the new definition of racism that moves away from individual prejudice into areas of so-called systemic racism. There may be elements of all those that are true and I can agree with, but overall, you'd have a hard time convincing me of the truth of those things. On the other hand, I can see and recognise that there are a lot of black people who have a fear of police and racism and that's something that has to be acknowledged, not dismissed. And again, it's also clear that there are issues with policing at times, and the full weight of that needs consideration because the power granted to those in positions of authority, like the police, is massive and must be handled with extreme care, it will be ripe for abuse, and a review of those things would seem very pertinent.

    All that said, if someone were to try to work with me, or someone like me, in finding a way forward with all these issues that we now see, the protests, the violence, the emotional exhaustion, etc. telling me that I have to be convinced by certain political or race theories isn't going to be the productive way to do it. Instead, it might be better to look for other ways, things we have in common and do agree on, and build from there.

    Otherwise the default will be to fall back in left/right, conservative/liberal (or whatever socio-political divide), positions and blame the other side for screwing everything up.

    And again, not to repeat myself, but I am more and more convinced that what society needs is to focus on values, and re-establish a number of key values on the basis of which we can operate.

    I'd cite the essay - Men without Chests/The Abolition of Man, which I think has some pertinent things to say on this, but it's late here so I'm going to bail.

    Keep it classy guys!

    Thanks.
     
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  9. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    That's not new or at least it has been around for the 40 years of my life.
     
  10. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    What's not new?
     
  11. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    The definition of racist being the "so-called" systemic racism. I had conversations bout that in highschool and that was over 20 years ago, and I have been hearing it from my Grandfather since I was young, so at least over 30 years.

    It might be a new idea to you, but it has been around at least since I have been alive. I doubt my Grandfather was the creator.
     
  12. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    I don't want to get side-tracked by a debate about exactly when something started etc. but 40 or 50 years is very new in terms of understanding and defining societies and societal behaviours.
     
  13. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    That is just moving the goalposts. It is older than the internet. Well, it is at least as old as the 60s, but I am sure it is older than that. Malcom X talked about it in 1965.

    Without the idea of systemic racism, racism isn't that big of a deal. It is just people not liking each other.
     
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  14. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    This is what I'm talking about. You're not going to win me, or many others, over by trying to engage in high-level debate about concepts like systemic racism and critical race theory. It's just not going to happen. The same as those who hold opposite views aren't likely to win over the other side. Trying to fight and win those battles first, before we tackle the practical issues being seen, as mentioned, is going to mean change isn't likely to come and people are only going to become embittered because it will only get more tribal.

    We have to unpack things so that people can unite over smaller things instead of having to accept a whole bundle of things - or nothing.
     
  15. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    I disagree. It is getting more people to see the light that is going to create change. It isn't even a high-level debate. It is just reality.

    The only reason we are seeing a movement now is that more and more people are recognizing the fact that systemic racism is a thing.

    You can't change a problem without agree where the problem lies. You only get bandaids.

    If you are not willing to change, there will be enough people who will. You will just be left behind. That is your choice.

    That is how most change happens. Not when people in the center just give up and make small changes. It is when there is a shift or a tipping point.

    You got to keep pushing forward.
     
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  16. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If you look at the socioeconomic side of this conversation, it's hard to not see what black communities see. Education levels are based on taxes from housing and property values, meaning affluent neighborhoods have much better educations and ultimately far greater numbers of kids in college. Those same neighborhoods have a much smaller police presence due to lower crime rates, which leads to far less interactions with the police for those living in those communities. Poor areas have more police yet almost nothing in the way of furthering education...with overpacked classrooms, schools with no budgets to work with and only the most basic afterschool programs.

    For instance, there's rarely tablets/laptops provided by poorer schools and even when there is, there's no internet connection at home. Just imagine that in this COVID world- if your kid can't get online, then they're not learning anything or passing classes. But is it the COVID disease that's systematically racist, or the policies we develop under these protocols? And this is something brand new established in 2020 at the heart of the BLM movement...

    Just that one thing- better schools/teachers creates a racial divide in building wealth over time. The average white kid has access to a family vehicle by 18, they have a bank account, a credit card and a clear focus on a field of employment. Even without college, these are major steps that put us ahead of black communities. It's also worth noting that property values in middle class neighborhoods grow at a rate 4x faster than low income communities....white folks generally buy while black folks rent (also a big disparity since whites get loans/build credit faster in life). Meanwhile, black communities are packed with predatory "payday loan" operations that can charge above 100% interest rates once you factor in misc. fees.

    Each of these might seem like small things by themselves, but once you put them all together and then realize that the average 21 year old white employee is making 50-200% more on their first career-type jobs at 22 than black employees (due to the ability to travel, education levels, etc.), it's hard to debate there's not systematic racism. That white kid making $35-45k a year out of college likely has more job stability as well and can transition to a better position with a new company easier, which means more credit, buying a house/car sooner, entering marriage on solid footing, giving more opportunity to their children, etc.

    Here's the problem with this conversation though- we didn't create this society; we just live in it. No amount of protesting in the world can change these facts because it's up to politicians to make education and career development fair across the board for everyone. I'm going to go back to round 2 of stimulus checks as an example again here because both political parties believe it needs to happen immediately, yet it hasn't for months now.

    If they can't solve that with 100% agreement...how can they re-zone school districts and make education more accessible? To me, there is no end to systematic racism with the current administration; we have to overhaul political offices from the ground up with people who take their citizens seriously and care about their futures. And again, I'm not saying Dem/Rep or conservative/liberal here....real racial change is not a priority in any of their agendas.

    Because if any part of what I just said is true, then systematic racism starts at age 5 in kindergarten and it's damning effects last for the rest of our lives.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2020

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