Dolphins announce they will be staying inside for anthem

"BevoPhin wrote:

Are you suggesting we not try to figure out the problem of poverty in America because we failed 50 years ago?

I don't believe that's what he's suggesting at all. I believe Rick and I both believe that massive government programs than hand out money for nothing do nothing to elevate folks out of poverty. In fact, it tends to keep them in poverty. We as a nation have done the same thing year after year for the last 50 years and the poverty rate has remained constant, if not increased.

Education and lucrative job training in a high demand field are the keys to elevating anyone out of poverty.

"The_Dark_Knight wrote:

I don't believe that's what he's suggesting at all. I believe Rick and I both believe that massive government programs than hand out money for nothing do nothing to elevate folks out of poverty. In fact, it tends to keep them in poverty. We as a nation have done the same thing year after year for the last 50 years and the poverty rate has remained constant, if not increased.

Education and lucrative job training in a high demand field are the keys to elevating anyone out of poverty.

:link:

well from a non-conservative think tank.

I love education and lucrative job training as much as the next guy, but most of the time I see programs where the government gives out money for nothing to do nothing it helps people get out of poverty.

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

:link:

well from a non-conservative think tank.

I love education and lucrative job training as much as the next guy, but most of the time I see programs where the government gives out money for nothing to do nothing it helps people get out of poverty.

Really? People getting government assistance often can't have an actual job, as that income will cause them to lose that assistance, even if they can't survive on that job alone. If having a job causes you to lose your housing, because your income causes you to not qualify, and you won't be able to afford housing with your job, that seems counter to bringing people out of poverty. Just one example.

"resnor wrote:

Really? People getting government assistance often can't have an actual job, as that income will cause them to lose that assistance, even if they can't survive on that job alone. If having a job causes you to lose your housing, because your income causes you to not qualify, and you won't be able to afford housing with your job, that seems counter to bringing people out of poverty. Just one example.

That's not money for nothing. That is money for not working. That part of government assistance needs to be fixed. If you penalize people for getting a job, of course they are not going to get a job.

Edit: I am agreeing with you that what you are saying is a problem.

"Finatik wrote:

Where is the personal responsibility? If you don't want to go to prison for drugs, here's an idea, don't do drugs. If you don't want to get caught again, don't hang out with people who do drugs as this might just not be the best people to get you're life moving in the right direction. Why is it always someone else's fault. Who's MAKING them commit these crimes? Twisting their arms? Forcing them? There's an old saying that is still true. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

In the Floyd case he's high on meth and fentanyl. Was put into the cop car where he became enraged and was taken out of the car to get him under control (didn't see any of that until recent tapes have come out). Maybe he shouldn't have stuck a gun in a pregnant lady's belly when he robbed her (another ex con). And yes his violent past does count when they run his name and find out he's a danger. Maybe his life choices could have been better and he wouldn't have been in the situation he was in. Where's the personal accountability for his actions that directly led him to his path. Not excusing that the cop should have or could have handled it differently. Floyd put himself in that situation being a junkie and a armed robber. But now he's got portraits painted of him. I guess it's the systems fault.

Rashard Brooks was wasted and passed out in a Wendy's drive thru. Ex con on parole realizes he's going back to jail and fights 2 cops over powering them. Steals one of their weapons. Tries to shoot a cop in the face with weapon. Those were his choices that led him down that path. No one made him pass out, beat up 2 cops and steal a weapon and tried to shoot the cop with said weapon. He got shot because the cop was racist I guess. None of the event prior matter. Where's the personal accountability for his actions??

I guess it's always the "systems fault" now, because there just isn't any personal responsibility or self control. It's just easier to blame it on the "system" and "oppression" then to look at this and say these martyres brought most of it down around their heads by their personal actions. If either of them hadn't been high and physically fought the police, guess what??? they wouldn't be dead now. But it's racism and the systems fault. That's the easy answer now.

I think you're missing a much larger point- are you saying that you (or your childhood friends) never once drove drunk, smoked pot, stole something, vandalized something, etc? If folks here are 100% honest, most of us break petty laws every single day of our lives.

Yet when you're in a crime-riddled area, you often go to jail for being in the wrong place at the wrong time...LITERALLY. Oh, you were in your friend's car that had a potential stolen laptop in it? Everyone's going to jail. You were out at 2 AM in a high crime area? You're getting pulled over every few blocks and delayed for hours. Don't get mad about it either, we're just protecting and serving...that attitude gets you a night in county and possible assault charges.

I never once said, "Feel sorry for actual criminals." That's not the vast majority of people in jail though...far from it.

In Floyd's case (since you brought it up), he was detained in a police vehicle....there was nothing more to do but take him to jail. You're acting like people being arrested should smile and thank the officers for doing their civic duty- that's not how the world works, my friend. Of course he was angry- he was being arrested on suspicion of passing counterfeit money...which he may or may not have realized was counterfeit (if he passed it at all). In no reality does that deserve a death sentence. An experienced, veteran cop would have let Floyd throw his temper tantrum in the car, get it out of his system and then take him to jail...if he damages the car, then file more charges.

Again, you're completely missing the point here....I could care less what Floyd did in his life before that day. Nobody deserves to die over a fake $20 and being high is not against the law. Honestly, there was no reason to even approach him that night since they knew who he was and they could have investigated and arrested him at a later time. Because here's the crux of the problem....prove that was his 20 and that he passed it with criminal intent. There's no way that ever gets prosecuted in the first place.

Floyd's life was worth less than a fake $20...that's what all the uproar is all about. If you think about the person in this world that you like the least, would you pay $20 for them to escape instant death? One way or the other, your answer will prove my point here that you're not thinking this thru.

"KeyFin wrote:

I think you're missing a much larger point- are you saying that you (or your childhood friends) never once drove drunk, smoked pot, stole something, vandalized something, etc? If folks here are 100% honest, most of us break petty laws every single day of our lives.

Yet when you're in a crime-riddled area, you often go to jail for being in the wrong place at the wrong time...LITERALLY. Oh, you were in your friend's car that had a potential stolen laptop in it? Everyone's going to jail. You were out at 2 AM in a high crime area? You're getting pulled over every few blocks and delayed for hours. Don't get mad about it either, we're just protecting and serving...that attitude gets you a night in county and possible assault charges.

I never once said, "Feel sorry for actual criminals." That's not the vast majority of people in jail though...far from it.

In Floyd's case (since you brought it up), he was detained in a police vehicle....there was nothing more to do but take him to jail. You're acting like people being arrested should smile and thank the officers for doing their civic duty- that's not how the world works, my friend. Of course he was angry- he was being arrested on suspicion of passing counterfeit money...which he may or may not have realized was counterfeit (if he passed it at all). In no reality does that deserve a death sentence. An experienced, veteran cop would have let Floyd throw his temper tantrum in the car, get it out of his system and then take him to jail...if he damages the car, then file more charges.

Again, you're completely missing the point here....I could care less what Floyd did in his life before that day. Nobody deserves to die over a fake $20 and being high is not against the law. Honestly, there was no reason to even approach him that night since they knew who he was and they could have investigated and arrested him at a later time. Because here's the crux of the problem....prove that was his 20 and that he passed it with criminal intent. There's no way that ever gets prosecuted in the first place.

Floyd's life was worth less than a fake $20...that's what all the uproar is all about. If you think about the person in this world that you like the least, would you pay $20 for them to escape instant death? One way or the other, your answer will prove my point here that you're not thinking this thru.

So where I've started to question things in regards to Floyd...knee on the neck is an actual restraint that those officers are trained in. Initially, I looked at that at outrageous, and certainly must have been outside of protocol. Turns out, it isn't. Then, you factor in the fentanyl that he ingested, and the the meth, and it increasingly looks like there's a good chance that Chauvin didn't actually kill him...or there is at least reasonable doubt.

Really it is an intricate situation.

"resnor wrote:

So where I've started to question things in regards to Floyd...knee on the neck is an actual restraint that those officers are trained in. Initially, I looked at that at outrageous, and certainly must have been outside of protocol. Turns out, it isn't. Then, you factor in the fentanyl that he ingested, and the the meth, and it increasingly looks like there's a good chance that Chauvin didn't actually kill him...or there is at least reasonable doubt.

Really it is an intricate situation.

I agree with you, but ultimately in the media circus one of those things happened- either the officer used an illegal tactic that resulted in death, or the academy is training officers to kill people with questionable techniques. Neither is publicly acceptable and when you throw in that this happened for almost 10 minutes with a non-responsive person in custody, I do think that's murder. And like I said, I may in fact be wrong on that opinion...but public perception and the police agency trying to cover their own butts takes this case to a different level.

In SC, I remember my first training academy where we were practicing headlocks...I got screamed at because I was choking my partner. And I remember thinking, it's a headlock...how the heck does a big guy use a headlock on someone smaller and not potentially cut off blood supply or air? I would have never used that in a prison unless I was fighting for my life because I'm so big/strong.

Another thing we were taught in the academy though is that we were first responders 1st, officers 2nd (I actually ran the cafeteria, so I was kitchen supervisor 2nd and an officer only in bad situations). If an inmate was in distress, my job was to drop everything and provide aid (or get help) because we were responsible...that inmate was in custody of the state and everything that happened to him/her fell on us while they were locked up. We were trained to consider the legal implications of not taking action because it could be a huge deal...that's one of the many reasons I got out of that profession.

"KeyFin wrote:

I think you're missing a much larger point- are you saying that you (or your childhood friends) never once drove drunk, smoked pot, stole something, vandalized something, etc? If folks here are 100% honest, most of us break petty laws every single day of our lives.

Yet when you're in a crime-riddled area, you often go to jail for being in the wrong place at the wrong time...LITERALLY. Oh, you were in your friend's car that had a potential stolen laptop in it? Everyone's going to jail. You were out at 2 AM in a high crime area? You're getting pulled over every few blocks and delayed for hours. Don't get mad about it either, we're just protecting and serving...that attitude gets you a night in county and possible assault charges.

I never once said, "Feel sorry for actual criminals." That's not the vast majority of people in jail though...far from it.

Never said you felt sorry for actual criminals. It's a larger point about society that there is no personal accountability for ones actions and they get a free pass.

Being high on meth and fentanyl and counterfeiting isn't petty. Either is armed robbery which shows he has a potential for violence. So to answer your question, no I don't smoke crack or meth and have never committed armed robbery. I might have drove drunk but if the cops pulled me over I wouldn't be on parole and I think I wouldn't be fighting with them. Maybe

Get violent with the police and they shoot you. White, black, brown it doesn't matter. They have to go home without injury or death too. Blue lives matter. They are protesting right now because a cop killed a guy. Mental problems comes out of the house with a knife and chased the cop until he got shot. Sorry but chase a cop with a knife you get shot. Actions have consequences. Personal responsibility for actions needs to be front and center. But that's just me.

"KeyFin wrote:

I agree with you, but ultimately in the media circus one of those things happened- either the officer used an illegal tactic that resulted in death, or the academy is training officers to kill people with questionable techniques. Neither is publicly acceptable and when you throw in that this happened for almost 10 minutes with a non-responsive person in custody, I do think that's murder. And like I said, I may in fact be wrong on that opinion...but public perception and the police agency trying to cover their own butts takes this case to a different level.

In SC, I remember my first training academy where we were practicing headlocks...I got screamed at because I was choking my partner. And I remember thinking, it's a headlock...how the heck does a big guy use a headlock on someone smaller and not potentially cut off blood supply or air? I would have never used that in a prison unless I was fighting for my life because I'm so big/strong.

Another thing we were taught in the academy though is that we were first responders 1st, officers 2nd (I actually ran the cafeteria, so I was kitchen supervisor 2nd and an officer only in bad situations). If an inmate was in distress, my job was to drop everything and provide aid (or get help) because we were responsible...that inmate was in custody of the state and everything that happened to him/her fell on us while they were locked up. We were trained to consider the legal implications of not taking action because it could be a huge deal...that's one of the many reasons I got out of that profession.

There is a third option: fentanyl and meth killed him.

What I find refreshing is that people can converse about this stuff in ways that expose the common sense on both sides. Contrary to what you hear in the media, conversations are happening and minds are being changed. Much of that happens on the interwebs however. It doesn't happen with talking heads.

What we can't seem to get right is the media coverage. Media seems to love controversy and so it supports one-sided takes. For instance, does anyone here actually mind if the Dolphins players put together some unifying demonstration? Probably not. That's their privilege. And as young (mostly African-American) males, it's understandably a top priority for them. These are young men, many of whom feel a connection to the current movement in some way, shape or form. That's relatable and easily tolerable even among those who don't see their concern as the most pressing issue facing the country.

What disgusts me are the commentators who have to report on who knelt and who didn't as if that is the thing that's important. Media has become so meta it's ridiculous. Media coverage in America seems to be somewhere between evil and mind-numbingly stupid. The latter is probably worse because it's unpredictable.

"resnor wrote:

So where I've started to question things in regards to Floyd...knee on the neck is an actual restraint that those officers are trained in. Initially, I looked at that at outrageous, and certainly must have been outside of protocol. Turns out, it isn't. Then, you factor in the fentanyl that he ingested, and the the meth, and it increasingly looks like there's a good chance that Chauvin didn't actually kill him...or there is at least reasonable doubt.

Really it is an intricate situation.

I understand what you’re getting at regarding the fentanyl but the video evidence is overwhelming. Video clip #1 shows Floyd in cuffs being sat on the sidewalk. He’s restrained. Video clip#2 shows him in the ground next to the police vehicle, Chauvin’s knee on his neck, full body weight which is illustrated by the free movement of his right foot.

Now from a trained law enforcement point of view, Floyd is restrained, 4 officers present, vehicle present...Floyd should have been placed in the back of the vehicle. The fight is over. He’s restrained. There’s nothing he can do to cause physical harm.

Now unless there’s other video showing Floyd doing his impression of Morpheus or John Wick that called for him being slammed to the pavement with Chauvin’s knee on his neck to restrain him, you’re going to have a hard time convincing me there was ever a need for a restrained suspect being planted face down on the pavement for 8 plus minutes rather than tossing him in the back of the vehicle.

"The_Dark_Knight wrote:

I understand what you’re getting at regarding the fentanyl but the video evidence is overwhelming. Video clip #1 shows Floyd in cuffs being sat on the sidewalk. He’s restrained. Video clip#2 shows him in the ground next to the police vehicle, Chauvin’s knee on his neck, full body weight which is illustrated by the free movement of his right foot.

Now from a trained law enforcement point of view, Floyd is restrained, 4 officers present, vehicle present...Floyd should have been placed in the back of the vehicle. The fight is over. He’s restrained. There’s nothing he can do to cause physical harm.

Now unless there’s other video showing Floyd doing his impression of Morpheus or John Wick that called for him being slammed to the pavement with Chauvin’s knee on his neck to restrain him, you’re going to have a hard time convincing me there was ever a need for a restrained suspect being planted face down on the pavement for 8 plus minutes rather than tossing him in the back of the vehicle.

Yeah man, that's where I was when I first saw the video when it came out. However, take it with a grain of salt, but the medical report released by the PD said there was no bruising in the neck or back, so the cause of death wasn't asphyxiation. Then finding out that they are trained to immobilize buy kneeling on the neck, and finding out that Floyd ingested a usually lethal dose of fentanyl and meth, just prior to the attempted arrest, it casts a lot of doubt into the situation for me, as to what actually caused his death.

Lets not take this thread really off-topic by debating what happened to George Floyd, there is a 100% chance of this getting ugly.

"resnor wrote:

There is a third option: fentanyl and meth killed him.

If that's actually what happened (and I'm not saying it didn't...we don't know), then that officer may go to jail for manslaughter nonetheless. Remember, his 1st responsibility is to provide aid, THEN arrest. So he's liable either way...all of those officers were.

I'm a big "back the blue" type of guy but in this case, they straight up blew it.

"Finatik wrote:

Never said you felt sorry for actual criminals. It's a larger point about society that there is no personal accountability for ones actions and they get a free pass.

Being high on meth and fentanyl and counterfeiting isn't petty. Either is armed robbery which shows he has a potential for violence. So to answer your question, no I don't smoke crack or meth and have never committed armed robbery. I might have drove drunk but if the cops pulled me over I wouldn't be on parole and I think I wouldn't be fighting with them. Maybe

Get violent with the police and they shoot you. White, black, brown it doesn't matter. They have to go home without injury or death too. Blue lives matter. They are protesting right now because a cop killed a guy. Mental problems comes out of the house with a knife and chased the cop until he got shot. Sorry but chase a cop with a knife you get shot. Actions have consequences. Personal responsibility for actions needs to be front and center. But that's just me.

Back up...how do you know he was counterfeiting? And if he did try to pass a counterfeit bill, why'd the clerk accept it without saying a word? That's why everyone has due process under the law. With the Floyd case, you can't say "actions have consequences" because he was high. Again, this was over $20...he died over twenty dollars.

I back the blue as well- the guy who came out with a knife and rushed the police needed to be shot dead...there's nothing to think about there.

"DolphinGreg wrote:

What I find refreshing is that people can converse about this stuff in ways that expose the common sense on both sides. Contrary to what you hear in the media, conversations are happening and minds are being changed. Much of that happens on the interwebs however. It doesn't happen with talking heads.

What we can't seem to get right is the media coverage. Media seems to love controversy and so it supports one-sided takes. For instance, does anyone here actually mind if the Dolphins players put together some unifying demonstration? Probably not. That's their privilege. And as young (mostly African-American) males, it's understandably a top priority for them. These are young men, many of whom feel a connection to the current movement in some way, shape or form. That's relatable and easily tolerable even among those who don't see their concern as the most pressing issue facing the country.

What disgusts me are the commentators who have to report on who knelt and who didn't as if that is the thing that's important. Media has become so meta it's ridiculous. Media coverage in America seems to be somewhere between evil and mind-numbingly stupid. The latter is probably worse because it's unpredictable.

I'll be honest- my opinion has 100% changed over the past few months. I'll always be on law enforcement's side but at the same time, we have to change a system that's set up to target poverty-stricken areas where people just don't have a fair chance at living the American Dream. It took some hard conversations for me to realize that I was only seeing part of the picture and ignoring everything else.

"KeyFin wrote:

I'll be honest- my opinion has 100% changed over the past few months. I'll always be on law enforcement's side but at the same time, we have to change a system that's set up to target poverty-stricken areas where people just don't have a fair chance at living the American Dream. It took some hard conversations for me to realize that I was only seeing part of the picture and ignoring everything else.

Of course, those poverty areas are targeted because they are high in crime. It's like a never ending cycle. But, I think drug laws are a huge problem there.

"KeyFin wrote:

Back up...how do you know he was counterfeiting? And if he did try to pass a counterfeit bill, why'd the clerk accept it without saying a word? That's why everyone has due process under the law. With the Floyd case, you can't say "actions have consequences" because he was high. Again, this was over $20...he died over twenty dollars.

I back the blue as well- the guy who came out with a knife and rushed the police needed to be shot dead...there's nothing to think about there.

If you think him be wacked out on a lethal level dose of Fentanyl and meth had no bearing on what happened, then that's what you believe. I don't want to debate the Floyd situation as this isn't what this very good conversation is about. Let's not ruin it. Cheers brother.

"Finatik wrote:

If you think him be wacked out on a lethal level dose of Fentanyl and meth had no bearing on what happened, then that's what you believe. I don't want to debate the Floyd situation as this isn't what this very good conversation is about. Let's not ruin it. Cheers brother.

I mean, I dont really care what he was high on. The actions in question happened after he was in control and successfully detained.

He could have been high on crack, meth, pcp, lsd, dmt and bath salts. The point where that could have impacted the outcome had been passed.

One other thing, and this is where I really disagree with the general sentiment, I guess, is he didn't die over a fake 20. He died from his actions following involvement of the police. Like, he didn't have to ingest a lethal level dose, he chose to. He didn't have to then also ingest meth, he chose to. Not doing those two things, I think it's highly likely that he's alive today. Those actions then lead to other violent actions, eventually culminating in his death. But if it's actually the drugs that killed him (really it was the drugs either by sitting down guess system, per by causing him to have his violent outburst), then all this energy and effort has been spent trying to prove police misconduct, with a case that actually had no misconduct. Know what I mean? But there is zero way anyway anyone will actually have that conversation. I'm sure I'll get some interesting responses. It's just too bad, because I do believe that there needs to be some police reform, but I feel like the message will be lost because the case they're using to make it isn't accurate.

"Finatik wrote:

Where is the personal responsibility? If you don't want to go to prison for drugs, here's an idea, don't do drugs. If you don't want to get caught again, don't hang out with people who do drugs as this might just not be the best people to get you're life moving in the right direction. Why is it always someone else's fault. Who's MAKING them commit these crimes? Twisting their arms? Forcing them? There's an old saying that is still true. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

In the Floyd case he's high on meth and fentanyl. Was put into the cop car where he became enraged and was taken out of the car to get him under control (didn't see any of that until recent tapes have come out). Maybe he shouldn't have stuck a gun in a pregnant lady's belly when he robbed her (another ex con). And yes his violent past does count when they run his name and find out he's a danger. Maybe his life choices could have been better and he wouldn't have been in the situation he was in. Where's the personal accountability for his actions that directly led him to his path. Not excusing that the cop should have or could have handled it differently. Floyd put himself in that situation being a junkie and a armed robber. But now he's got portraits painted of him. I guess it's the systems fault.

Rashard Brooks was wasted and passed out in a Wendy's drive thru. Ex con on parole realizes he's going back to jail and fights 2 cops over powering them. Steals one of their weapons. Tries to shoot a cop in the face with weapon. Those were his choices that led him down that path. No one made him pass out, beat up 2 cops and steal a weapon and tried to shoot the cop with said weapon. He got shot because the cop was racist I guess. None of the event prior matter. Where's the personal accountability for his actions??

I guess it's always the "systems fault" now, because there just isn't any personal responsibility or self control. It's just easier to blame it on the "system" and "oppression" then to look at this and say these martyres brought most of it down around their heads by their personal actions. If either of them hadn't been high and physically fought the police, guess what??? they wouldn't be dead now. But it's racism and the systems fault. That's the easy answer now.

I can tell you why. The rules are entirely arbitrary. You can't even make a case they arent. Cross any state lines and you're under an entirely new set of laws that might or might not conflict with laws in your own state.

I don't particularly remember consenting to any set of laws. I was again arbitrarily placed under them by being born.

If a law hurts noone, why on Earth would I follow the arbitrary ruleset I dont agree with and never consented to? Who gets to decide what is bad for me?

"resnor wrote:

Of course, those poverty areas are targeted because they are high in crime. It's like a never ending cycle. But, I think drug laws are a huge problem there.

That's the thing- you get more crime, you get more cops, which leads to more youth caught up in an area with limited opportunity. Nobody wins in that situation and cops/community simply grow further apart. It sucks because like you said, it's a full cycle that never ends and only gets worse with the next generations.

My brother (who was adopted at birth to a different family, just like me) came from one of those areas and I moved him up here last year to help him escape that cycle...he's been in jail almost half his adult life. And at first, he'd brag about how much street cred he had, how much pot he's sold, how many people looked up to him, etc like those are cool things we all aspire to...him and I were in two different galaxies in terms of world views. But then he saw how my family lives and how successful I've been, and everything changed for him almost instantly. He's now managing a trendy restaurant and living a great life...but it was something that he couldn't even fathom 18 months ago since it wasn't a part of his world.

The thing is, he was raised in poverty without a dad in the picture...that story is way too common these days and he never got those lectures how he could be anything he wanted to be in this world. From the age of 13 he literally thought selling pot was the only path to success in the world he lived in...because that's what all his "friends" did. My brother is a GREAT guy as well- loyal, dependable and trustworthy...he just didn't have a freakin' chance because of how/where he was raised.

Although my brother is white, I think his story is now the BLM story....there's so many here in America that can't see where college, a tech school or a serious career can ever be an option. These aren't bad people either; they're simply a product of their environments and that's where change HAS TO start...just showing those in that situation that there's ways to escape poverty and live a great life.

For instance, a lot of folks don't know this but a four-year state university education costs less than incarcerating someone for four years. In South Carolina, we house inmates the cheapest nationwide at $17k a year...and that's barely feeding them at all. I can't help but think of how many hundreds of thousands of petty offenders could be shown a different path early on if resources are directed away from prison and into communities for education, counseling, etc...that's where this has to start. But I don't know how we get there with the nation's leadership in general (all parties) since they don't truly understand the problem.

"KeyFin wrote:

That's the thing- you get more crime, you get more cops, which leads to more youth caught up in an area with limited opportunity. Nobody wins in that situation and cops/community simply grow further apart. It sucks because like you said, it's a full cycle that never ends and only gets worse with the next generations.

My brother (who was adopted at birth to a different family, just like me) came from one of those areas and I moved him up here last year to help him escape that cycle...he's been in jail almost half his adult life. And at first, he'd brag about how much street cred he had, how much pot he's sold, how many people looked up to him, etc like those are cool things we all aspire to...him and I were in two different galaxies in terms of world views. But then he saw how my family lives and how successful I've been, and everything changed for him almost instantly. He's now managing a trendy restaurant and living a great life...but it was something that he couldn't even fathom 18 months ago since it wasn't a part of his world.

The thing is, he was raised in poverty without a dad in the picture...that story is way too common these days and he never got those lectures how he could be anything he wanted to be in this world. From the age of 13 he literally thought selling pot was the only path to success in the world he lived in...because that's what all his "friends" did. My brother is a GREAT guy as well- loyal, dependable and trustworthy...he just didn't have a freakin' chance because of how/where he was raised.

Although my brother is white, I think his story is now the BLM story....there's so many here in America that can't see where college, a tech school or a serious career can ever be an option. These aren't bad people either; they're simply a product of their environments and that's where change HAS TO start...just showing those in that situation that there's ways to escape poverty and live a great life.

For instance, a lot of folks don't know this but a four-year state university education costs less than incarcerating someone for four years. In South Carolina, we house inmates the cheapest nationwide at $17k a year...and that's barely feeding them at all. I can't help but think of how many hundreds of thousands of petty offenders could be shown a different path early on if resources are directed away from prison and into communities for education, counseling, etc...that's where this has to start. But I don't know how we get there with the nation's leadership in general (all parties) since they don't truly understand the problem.

They are also "rented out" to call centers and many other places for employment for extremely low wages, depress the earning potential of everyone in the region because it is hard to compete against far below minimum wage, and the income that is provided doesn't go out into the community. Thus creating more poverty, thus creating more of this cycle.

I think you have a good point about his story being a BLM story because this is also about class as much as it is about race.

"Dol-Fan Dupree wrote:

They are also "rented out" to call centers and many other places for employment for extremely low wages, depress the earning potential of everyone in the region because it is hard to compete against far below minimum wage, and the income that is provided doesn't go out into the community. Thus creating more poverty, thus creating more of this cycle.

I think you have a good point about his story being a BLM story because this is also about class as much as it is about race.

I haven't worked for the state in about a dozen years, but the average inmate on work release made minimum wage at one of many low-wage positions. Only, because they were allowed to work, they had to "pay" like $25/day for their room/board plus transportation costs to/from work, plus restitution and other fees. Inmates ended up with around $1.21 an hour take home and these guys had to work like dogs to keep their jobs in some really bad conditions (for instance, we were a huge employer at a local chicken slaughterhouse).

But here's the thing- you can earn zero per week working in the prison or $40 a week getting to leave every day, have co-workers bring you a few cigarettes and a cold Pepsi, etc...which do you choose? It's not even worth the thought- inmates wait in line for years to earn that $40 that comes with a sliver of freedom.

"KeyFin wrote:

That's the thing- you get more crime, you get more cops, which leads to more youth caught up in an area with limited opportunity. Nobody wins in that situation and cops/community simply grow further apart. It sucks because like you said, it's a full cycle that never ends and only gets worse with the next generations.

My brother (who was adopted at birth to a different family, just like me) came from one of those areas and I moved him up here last year to help him escape that cycle...he's been in jail almost half his adult life. And at first, he'd brag about how much street cred he had, how much pot he's sold, how many people looked up to him, etc like those are cool things we all aspire to...him and I were in two different galaxies in terms of world views. But then he saw how my family lives and how successful I've been, and everything changed for him almost instantly. He's now managing a trendy restaurant and living a great life...but it was something that he couldn't even fathom 18 months ago since it wasn't a part of his world.

The thing is, he was raised in poverty without a dad in the picture...that story is way too common these days and he never got those lectures how he could be anything he wanted to be in this world. From the age of 13 he literally thought selling pot was the only path to success in the world he lived in...because that's what all his "friends" did. My brother is a GREAT guy as well- loyal, dependable and trustworthy...he just didn't have a freakin' chance because of how/where he was raised.

Although my brother is white, I think his story is now the BLM story....there's so many here in America that can't see where college, a tech school or a serious career can ever be an option. These aren't bad people either; they're simply a product of their environments and that's where change HAS TO start...just showing those in that situation that there's ways to escape poverty and live a great life.

For instance, a lot of folks don't know this but a four-year state university education costs less than incarcerating someone for four years. In South Carolina, we house inmates the cheapest nationwide at $17k a year...and that's barely feeding them at all. I can't help but think of how many hundreds of thousands of petty offenders could be shown a different path early on if resources are directed away from prison and into communities for education, counseling, etc...that's where this has to start. But I don't know how we get there with the nation's leadership in general (all parties) since they don't truly understand the problem.

I grew up in Santa Ana in the ghetto area. Gang infested. Nightly shootings. Single mother who did what she could to keep a roof over our heads and food on our plates. I knew I wanted better. So I worked 2 jobs and went to community college at the same time. Rode my skateboard to school cause we didn't have a car. Worked for minimum wage in a warehouse and a pizza joint. And sometimes at Irvine Meadows at nights during concerts. Did whatever it took. Not real galmerious and I had zero time left to do other things but sleep. Just like anyone else can/could. It's choices we make in life. Sometimes those choices are made for you but there comes a time, where at the cross road, you become responsible for you own life through your own actions. "The system does this to me", "Some group oppressed me", "I'm not being treated fairly"....all a bunch of excuses to me since I was also in the gutter once. So sorry if I don't have a lot of empathy for all the hard luck stories. I lived it.