Dolphins announce they will be staying inside for anthem

Thread closed for consideration.

Nothing against you @110.

ThePhins.com have a policy of avoiding political posts. We'll leave this post up because it's a valid piece of Dolphins news but further replies stand a high risk of descending into a toxic political discussion.

We're considering this and will advise soon.

---Please read.---

Alright guys,

As per Puka's post, yesterday Brian Flores and the Miami Dolphins released a video announcing that they will be staying inside for the anthem and will come out afterwards. It explains why and if you're interested in the topic, you should watch it. Either way, they're clearly calling for a conversation about how everyone can do better.

To that extent, although we have a policy to avoid political issues, we're going to open up this thread for that conversation.

Normal rules apply. However, since political threads always go down hill eventually and get locked, we're asking contributors to exercise self-discipline and help keep this thread open. How to do that?

1. This thread is only for the discussion of this specific topic - the conversation raised by the Dolphins. This isn't a POFO replacement thread and general political issues are off-topic.

2. If you don't act with respect or follow the rules you may be removed from thread.

3. If the thread goes downhill generally it will be closed.

In the words of Brian Flores:

"When you’re dealing with 53 guys and 16 practice squad players and coaches and personnel people from different places, you may have different opinions. That’s everywhere. And that’s good. That’s a good thing as long as we’re communicating and we can talk it out, and show respect."

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Brian Flores:

"“I talk to Steve about the video. He was supportive,” Flores said Friday of Dolphins owner Steve Ross.

"“The message is to try and create unity, not divide. That was partly of why they wanted to do it. Specific to our locker room, I feel like we’re all on the same page. I hope it’s that way,” Flores said.

"But look, it was directed at everyone. I think every individual in this country can do better. That’s players. It’s coaches. It’s owners. It’s media. It’s everyone. Everyone can do better. And to try and misconstrue the message or take it in a different light, that wasn’t what the message was supposed to be.

“We can all do better. We all need to do better. And what’s happening in this country and really around the world, we need change. It’s something that we’ve been saying for a long time, and the video speaks for itself from that standpoint. From a message standpoint, it’s that we can all do better.”

"When you’re dealing with 53 guys and 16 practice squad players and coaches and personnel people from different places, you may have different opinions. That’s everywhere. And that’s good. That’s a good thing as long as we’re communicating and we can talk it out, and show respect.

"The one thing I said to the players: ‘Faith without works is dead. Faith or belief without works is dead.’ We can talk about doing things, but we have to back it up with some action. They know that. They understand that. Anyone else who speaks out should understand that as well.

“That’s the message to those guys, and I think they understand that,” Flores added. “I think they’re ready to help and take action in ways that they can. But, just personally, I know that you never feel like you’re doing enough. You feel like you need more help. And I think if we get more people trying to spend the time or donate, or donate time, or donate money or actually just have, I wouldn’t call it a change of heart but empathy and an understanding. If we can get that, then we’re moving in the right direction.”"

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29855411

I also respect the decision by the team and hope they destroy the Patriots on Sunday!

As long as they don't point it out to the viewers every 20 minutes like last night, it's fine.

I don't need to hear..."In case you missed it, here's what happened pre-game".

Let's play some football.

"TheHighExhaulted wrote:

As long as they don't point it out to the viewers every 20 minutes like last night, it's fine.

I don't need to hear..."In case you missed it, here's what happened pre-game".

Let's play some football.

This was one of my biggest complaints of how the networks dealt with Colin. The networks were constantly making a huge deal out of it.

The players can do whatever they want. They are adults.

The networks, I am here to watch football. Once the game has started you don't constantly need to remind me that Colin was sitting on the bench during the national anthem or showing him on the bench during the anthem.

1. This thread is only for the discussion of this specific topic - the conversation raised by the Dolphins. This isn't a POFO replacement thread and general political issues are off-topic.

Galant, that’s going to be a bit challenging since the poem recited by the Dolphins players literally addresses many of the political issues are are being headlined by the media, pundits, celebrities and football players alike. But on that note...

Watching a game, be it football, baseball, basketball or any of the numbers of sports we as Americans watch and are fans of is a recreational event. Work, family, friendships, religion or even politics, sports is supposed to be one of those times where people can watch their favorite team or athlete play a game and ESCAPE all of the seriousness and stressors in our daily lives.

You and the fan next to you could personally be as different as night and day but watching your favorite team was that one thing in which all of those differences disappeared and you could just relax...decompress...have a good time...enjoy the excitement of a game and just simply be a human being.

Sadly through the pressures influence, many are calling on high profile institutions to take a public stand, one side or the other but there’s a serious problem with that. Sports transcends everything. If you love football and share a favorite team, it doesn’t matter who you are, where you’re from, what color you are, what religion you are, what your political affiliation is, a Dolphins fan (for the purpose of this discussion) is a Dolphins fan. Aqua and orange is aqua and orange. You love your team.

If the Dolphins as an organization mandated or encouraged one stance, you risk alienating a segment of your fan base. If they mandated or condoned an alternative stance, you risk alienating another segment.

While I have my own personal opinion on what I believe the team should do, I can live with and respect the team’s decision to remain in the locker room. By not taking an obvious visible stance one way or the other, the team...which we all are fans of, regardless of our personal points of view regarding daily life, the team is being wise as not to risk offending any particular segment of the Dolphins fan base.

We as Americans have to get back to some sense of normality. If everything in your life is force filled with some underlying or obvious message that you or may not agree with, then you can never just RELAX and enjoy a game.

Thank you Miami for deciding to just be a football team. Now, FINS UP BABY!!!!!!

"The_Dark_Knight wrote:

Watching a game, be it football, baseball, basketball or any of the numbers of sports we as Americans watch and are fans of is a recreational event. Work, family, friendships, religion or even politics, sports is supposed to be one of those times where people can watch their favorite team or athlete play a game and ESCAPE all of the seriousness and stressors in our daily lives.

You and the fan next to you could personally be as different as night and day but watching your favorite team was that one thing in which all of those differences disappeared and you could just relax...decompress...have a good time...enjoy the excitement of a game and just simply be a human being.

Sadly through the pressures influence, many are calling on high profile institutions to take a public stand, one side or the other but there’s a serious problem with that. Sports transcends everything. If you love football and share a favorite team, it doesn’t matter who you are, where you’re from, what color you are, what religion you are, what your political affiliation is, a Dolphins fan (for the purpose of this discussion) is a Dolphins fan. Aqua and orange is aqua and orange. You love your team.

If the Dolphins as an organization mandated or encouraged one stance, you risk alienating a segment of your fan base. If they mandated or condoned an alternative stance, you risk alienating another segment.

While I have my own personal opinion on what I believe the team should do, I can live with and respect the team’s decision to remain in the locker room. By not taking an obvious visible stance one way or the other, the team...which we all are fans of, regardless of our personal points of view regarding daily life, the team is being wise as not to risk offending any particular segment of the Dolphins fan base.

We as Americans have to get back to some sense of normality. If everything in your life is force filled with some underlying or obvious message that you or may not agree with, then you can never just RELAX and enjoy a game.

Very, very nice post. Well said.

Now since it's very IN to kneel against the flag, once everyone, in every sport does it for months, no one will care as it will be so common place that it will have zero emotional impact anymore. When everyone does it, and it didn't solve anything people will just stop doing it, until the next "thing" to do is realized. Go Fins!!!!

"The_Dark_Knight wrote:

Watching a game, be it football, baseball, basketball or any of the numbers of sports we as Americans watch and are fans of is a recreational event. Work, family, friendships, religion or even politics, sports is supposed to be one of those times where people can watch their favorite team or athlete play a game and ESCAPE all of the seriousness and stressors in our daily lives.

I get and respect this point of view, that after a tough M-F 9-5 a lot of us just want to kick up our feet and watch some ball, but it's worth remembering that our own personal experiences aren't shared by all. Would Jackie Robinson agree its all about escaping the seriousness and stressors in our daily lives? And for many people of color, there is no escape, which is one of the points being made. Listening to their platform during the pregame, seeing them wearing shirts or shoes or stay inside for the anthem has no real negative effect on me or my ability to watch the game - it's not delaying the game, changing the game, cancelling the game. The guys are still going to put on the pads and jerseys and play. Worst come to worst, I can just mute the TV until they are lined up for the kickoff.

"Finatik wrote:

Very, very nice post. Well said.

Now since it's very IN to kneel against the flag, once everyone, in every sport does it for months, no one will care as it will be so common place that it will have zero emotional impact anymore. When everyone does it, and it didn't solve anything people will just stop doing it, until the next "thing" to do is realized. Go Fins!!!!

Listening to the pregame stuff before Chiefs/Texans, and this point was addressed in a roundabout way. It's why the NBA decided to partner up and offer their arenas as voting centers, as a way to start taking action and promoting positive change. It's difficult sometimes to follow messaging with action. The NBA got a start, we will see if the NFL will follow or not really. They also mentioned hoping to get the owner's to back them. As much money as the players have compared to the average joe like you and I? The owner's have politics money. Policy money. Money that moves things and gets things done behind the scenes.

"texanphinatic wrote:

The NBA got a start, we will see if the NFL will follow or not really. They also mentioned hoping to get the owner's to back them. As much money as the players have compared to the average joe like you and I? The owner's have politics money. Policy money. Money that moves things and gets things done behind the scenes.

Why is it the owners responsibility? The "crowd" doesn't want to let Jerry run the team and tell them not to kneel but now it's somehow his responsibility to do..something..do what? Throw money around to appease the pitchforks? Shouldn't it be their choice to do or not do something? And likewise it should be the players choice to do or not do something or not to play for a franchise they "feel" isn't doing enough? It's about accounting and not accountability it seems. Always follow the money.

"Finatik wrote:

Why is it the owners responsibility? The "crowd" doesn't want to let Jerry run the team and tell them not to kneel but now it's somehow his responsibility to do..something..do what? Throw money around to appease the pitchforks? Shouldn't it be their choice to do or not do something? And likewise it should be the players choice to do or not do something or not to play for a franchise they "feel" isn't doing enough? It's about accounting and not accountability it seems. Always follow the money.

I can see it now, Jerry Jones crying his little eyes out(provided the plastic surgery allows him to), swearing up and down he would have never helped create and maintain a society that exists almost entirely to protect and benefit him if he knew that someone was one day going to put pressure on him to use that power in a way that is mildly inconvenient and uncomfortable to him personally. Its so unfair.

?

Having this conversation today on the anniversary of 9/11, I can't help but think of how unified we were as a country the day after, on September 12th, 2001. On that day, politics didn't matter and neither did race, religion, status or creed. We were all Americans unified under one cause and I really think we need to find a path back to that reality. It starts with sparking these types of conversations so everyone can gain some context on how others might feel.

I applaud the Dolphins for taking this first step and asking us to have a conversation, because being able to talk about our differences ultimately brings all of us closer. I hate that these types of threads go south so fast because I talk about my feelings/beliefs here more than anywhere else on the net....maybe more than in the real world sometimes. The goal of these conversations IS NOT TO SAY, "You need to believe what I believe or else i hate you!"

It's actually to say, "I wish you could understand where I'm coming from and why my experiences are different from yours."

For instance, you might look up at the sky and say that it's blue. My youngest kid has terrible vision so the sky looks more aqua-green to her. You could argue with her all day long that the sky is blue but that's not her reality...she sees what she sees because that's what it is. And I think that's what we need to re-learn as a society on practically everything- there's no absolutes in this world when it comes to feelings and beliefs. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to talk about our differences and find solutions that works for everyone.

So again, I'm 100% in support of the Fins not taking the field if that's how they feel- good for them.

This is a fantastic move, if those angered can get past why they're not coming out for the anthem, they'll realize its because they don't want to be part of the NFL's PR show, its empty gestures that only divide us further and doesn't result in any meaningful change.

They're also calling out the NFL for taking millions from the military to honor our heroes. No one should make a fucking dime honoring our war heroes. Ever.

BRAVO!!

There has been some recent research into how the politicization of sports affects your audience.

The nutshell version is that it doesn’t move the needle with people who already agree with you, but drives away the uncommitted and the people who disagree.

Once you have lost an audience it can be very hard to get them back. Not all the upset fans will be hanging by the telephone waiting for their beloved to call them, some will find a new object of affection.

I totally support what the Dolphins are doing. I only hope that when they play at home the fans in the stands choose to act differently than the fans In KC last night. It is of course their right to do otherwise.

"Pauly wrote:

There has been some recent research into how the politicization of sports affects your audience.

The nutshell version is that it doesn’t move the needle with people who already agree with you, but drives away the uncommitted and the people who disagree.

Once you have lost an audience it can be very hard to get them back. Not all the upset fans will be hanging by the telephone waiting for their beloved to call them, some will find a new object of affection.

There's more of a desire for this to be true(and for someone else to hypothetically punish the NFL or players on their behalf, while they can still watch) than there is evidence anyone's behavior is actually modified by this.

"Disgustipate wrote:

There's more of a desire for this to be true(and for someone else to hypothetically punish the NFL or players on their behalf, while they can still watch) than there is evidence anyone's behavior is actually modified by this.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/319256/farming-rises-sports-tumbles-industry-ratings.aspx

"Pauly wrote:

There has been some recent research into how the politicization of sports affects your audience.

The nutshell version is that it doesn’t move the needle with people who already agree with you, but drives away the uncommitted and the people who disagree.

Once you have lost an audience it can be very hard to get them back. Not all the upset fans will be hanging by the telephone waiting for their beloved to call them, some will find a new object of affection.

Let's say that your statement is 100% true for a moment- let's call it a fact. All businesses deal with this; we have to develop rules to protect our employees and customers, even though some may not like it. For example, you have to wear shoes to enter a convenience store or a restaurant at the beach. It stinks and people get angry about it but it's also state law. Then there are others who get just as angry when someone walks into a gas station at the beach barefoot and the staff doesn't stop them...so it's impossible to appease every customer 100% of the time regardless of the rules and laws.

Now, let's get back to your statement that we're pretending is a proven fact. Some folks hate any form of protesting from players and they may stop being Dolphins or even NFL fans. Is that a bad thing though? Because think about this- as a business, you have to take a stand in what you believe is good and right. Should you really care if customers who believe the opposite of you get angry over it? And if you do want to continue marketing to customers that don't share your values, what does that say about you as a person and a leader? Your belief system should never be compromised to make an extra dollar.

I'm not saying that's right or wrong, but the team has two choices- publicly display their opinions on something they believe is important...or stay silent. I don't think this is the time in US history to tell anyone that their opinion doesn't matter, especially athletes who have a lot of sway with teens and young adults.

"Pauly wrote:

https://news.gallup.com/poll/319256/farming-rises-sports-tumbles-industry-ratings.aspx

His point still stands.

Who wrote the text of the poem?

"Pauly wrote:

There has been some recent research into how the politicization of sports affects your audience.

The nutshell version is that it doesn’t move the needle with people who already agree with you, but drives away the uncommitted and the people who disagree.

Once you have lost an audience it can be very hard to get them back. Not all the upset fans will be hanging by the telephone waiting for their beloved to call them, some will find a new object of affection.

This is probably because the average person doesn't have an understanding that the flag stands for people's freedom to choose, and the military is the entity that has defended that freedom. The average person is functioning at a more superficial level, where "flag" equals "military," and kneeling for the Anthem is supposedly disrespectful to the military's service.

America is about freedom, including the freedom to kneel for the National Anthem. The flag represents that freedom, and the military has defended that freedom. As soon as we impel someone to stand for the National Anthem, instead of exercising their freedom of choice, we become something different from America.

The people who've fought and died in war for this country have defended our freedom of choice. Surely they haven't defended an obligation to do one thing or another. And certainly the flag and the Anthem represent freedom, not an obligation.

"Ohiophinphan wrote:

Who wrote the text of the poem?

Most I can find so far:
"Kaleb Thornhill, the Dolphins' director of player engagement, worked with the team's social justice committee to create it, Flores said.

“That group of guys had a lot of conversations,” Flores said. “Kaleb spearheaded a lot of the conversation. They wrote a lot of what they thought down on paper, and were able to communicate it in the video.”"

https://www.insider.com/coach-message-in-dolphins-video-is-we-can-all-do-better-2020-9

"Pauly wrote:

https://news.gallup.com/poll/319256/farming-rises-sports-tumbles-industry-ratings.aspx

I don't doubt that there are people of certain political orientations that are going to talk a big game in a political poll. The question is if they'll stop watching, or watch something else. There's no evidence that's true, or if it is true, that those people make up a meaningful percent of the population.

Ratings for football have decline over the last "X" years(by various metrics), but it's in-line with what is happening to TV in general. There's no evidence it's a reaction to certain people having their feelings hurt or whatever, as opposed to say, a huge shift in how people are consuming entertainment media.