Remember a small, speedy player named Lorenzo Booker? Sure you do. He was traded because he didn't fit the system. I have to say, unlike some Dolphins fans, I wasn't shocked when he was traded. I had been wondering if the smash-mouth dinosaurs running the offense would have any idea of what to do with a player like LoBook. I didn't think they would know how to begin using him effectively in their system. Imagining the Parcells-Sparano-Henning triumvirate examining Booker makes me imagine three cavemen trying to get an F-18 jet flying. Now, this is not an indictment of the smash-mouth style of football. Last year the flashy offensive approach did nothing for us. I want a return to basics. To blocking. To running hard. So don;t get mad at me for calling a spade a spade, please. Thank you. Now, to continue to my MAIN concern. The thing is, now I am concerned about Ted Ginn. Ted sure as heck is NOT a big, tough, physical player. He's another, BETTER Lorenzo Booker at the WR position. Still, I don't think we'll trade him, only because of the size of his contract and the number of years left would create too big a cap hit. But Ted's not this regime's type of player. He's small, he's speedy, and decidedly NOT physically imposing. Okay, so I'm worried... what's new, right? Well, I got more concerned last week. When asked about the receiver position at the post-draft press conference, GM Jeff Ireland said he liked our current receivers... then proceeded to name them all except Ted. Maybe he forgot Ted, but how do you forget a player you think highly of and expect to be your #1 or #2 receiver? Maybe he was only naming acquisitions. Still, in the same presser he announced how one of the draftees would be competing for kick-off return duties. Well, competition is good and maybe it would push Ginn. Or maybe they'd actually take Ginn off kickoff return?s But, I exclaim loudly to any who'll listen, Ted's special at returns ! At the end of the day, however, I was again left a bit unsettled, questioning and wondering what our coaches and Front Office see when they look at Ted Ginn. My gut feeling at this point is that Ginn is not this regime's type of player, BUT they can't move him without a big cap hit, so I they have decided to live with him and make the most of him. Still, they hardly seem "high on him". Maybe I'm wrong and they *do* want to feature him. Maybe the first sign of that was improving the special teams contingent around Ginn. The counter-argument is that a good deal of their motivation to improve the special teams might also have been related to improving the coverage, not just the returns.... and/or to help other returners, not just Ginn. Another possibility is that they want Ginn to focus mainly on developing as a WR... but then how do you forget to mention him as one of the WR's you have and like? I'm just convinced Ginn is another great player that these guys aren't used to seeing the likes of, so don't feel comfortable using fully. If that's the case, expect to see Ginn either underutilized, or mis-used by the team. I pray I am wrong. I pray Bill Parcells learned his lesson from the Terry Glenn experience. Initially, when the speedy, smaller WR (another burner from Ohio State) was pushed on Parcells by the higher-ups in New England, Bill hated Terry. Eventually, he came to respect him. Parcells even brought Terry to Dallas with him later, and Terry delivered with a good performance. Maybe Parcells *can* appreciate the use of a small, super fast guy who DOESN'T possess a lot of physical power and size. I sure hope so, or Ted is going to become the next Lorenzo Booker. Worse than trading him, though, would be keeping him, then having to watch us waste such a weapon through misuse or under-appreciation of its potential. Bpk
I don't think so. I think as other have pointed out that they want Backs that are North and South type players that pound it between tackles. It would be a HUGE mistake if they got rid of Ted Ginn.
I understand your concern but despite being a smashmouth team, you need a deep threat. I stated earlier in a thread that I am hoping that our team ends up like the Jaguars, physically that is with more success. The Jaguars were always known as a smash mouth team under Del Rio. Then they got a new acquisition in Northcutt last year, hoping that he would be a deep threat for them. IMO, it goes the same way here with Teddy Ginn and the new regimes plans. The only thing is our guy is more faster and I believe will have better success in this league. You need a guy to stretch the field after all those bruising runs, a man that will put the opponent on their heels and strike fear. They will have to obey the speed we have as well as the run. That man will be, Ted Ginn. My take on it.
I totally agree that we need that field-stretcher. I think the team will use him as such, but somewhat underutilizing him. Maybe we use him constantly on fly and post routes, but neglect to use him often on slants, crossing routes, and other short routes he could bust for large gains. I also want to see him on punt returns and kick returns. He's our Steve Smith... hopefully Maser, coming from Carolina, can explain the happy marriage of smashmoush running with a speedy shifty receiver. Bpk
IMO the template of big, tough bruisers is over-stated. Lobook was cut primarily b/c he was one dimensional. Ireland said so in his PC. He said that they would have trouble finding Lobook plays b/c he didn't play STs and he was not going to supplant RB and RW. As for Ireland mentioning all the other wrs but forgetting Ginn, that's not exactly accurate. Here is the transcript: On if the Dolphins will sign any receivers as college free agents: “We’ll work hard getting a couple of receivers. It just didn’t turn out that the receivers were there for us when it came time to pick. We feel real good about the receivers on our roster now. We made some moves there in the free agency with Tab Perry, David Kircus and Ernest (Wilford). We feel good about those kids. We feel like we can go play right now, but we’d like to have some young developmental receivers to push those older gentlemen.” As you can see, he only mentioned this off-season's acquisitions. He didn't forget Ginn, Hagan, etc. I think Ginn is fine for now and is included in the team's plans. Obviously he will have to continue to develop as a WR and his play on the field will determine if he remains in those plans or if they go in a different direction, but for now I wouldn't worry.
I think you might see him underutilized in the beginning of the season but will develop more chemistry with whomever the Quarterback is and will be used the correct way. Again JMO.
I think that is a valid concern bpk, Ted Ginn is not a physically imposing player, and if we are bringing in players to return kicks, that cuts Ginn's value in half, even though his family works cheaply.... But here I think the concern is misplaced, I've got the feeling that Sparano and Henning want to see Ginn become a much more polished Wr then he his now, and if we can find a KR as a UDFA that will allow TG to concentrate on that improvement. The difference between TG and LBook is Booker was a player in search of a position, he wasn't going to run the ball here as now Dolphins RB's have to be able to go between the tackles, he wasn't going to play Slot Wr as he never had played there before, and he was a poor kick returner, so he wouldn't see the field that way either. Dan Henning knew how to use Steve Smith in Carolina, so Ginn should see plenty of passes coming his way this year, the same couldn't be said about LBook.
Good viewpoint BPK. I've wondered myself how Ted Ginn Jr. fits into the team's long term plans, because, as you point out, he isn't the big, physical, receive that the FO seems to covet. I think the fact that we did not draft a WR at all speaks volumes for how the FO views Ginn. If they were that displeased with him, it makes sense that they would have drafted his replacement. I concede that the FO was focused on the lines for the draft, but still, they haven't done much to address the WR position at all this offseason, so there has to be something there they like. Personally, I'm hoping Parcells sees some of Terry Glenn in Ted Ginn Jr. There are similarities, if you stop and consider them. Obviously, both Glenn and Ginn went to Ohio State. They are both smaller in size (5'11). At this point in his career, Ginn is more slight (~180 lbs) than Glenn (~195 lbs), but compensates with his speed down the field. It wouldn't surprise me at all to see Keyshawn signed, just to act as a mentor to Ginn and the other young WRs (Hagen) we have on the roster. Personally, I don't think that at this stage in his career Keyshawn offers much in terms of on-the-field playmaking ability, but I do think his advice and mentoring, if he was willing to undertake it, would be invaluable to Ginn's development. There's no denying that Ginn will develop into a weapon for us if the FO has the courage to use him, and to explore the opportunities and mismatches he creates. Here's hoping they do so, and we see Ginn Jr. running all over the field next year.
Fair enough, and as I said... maybe Ireland was only addressing the acquisitions. I I hope you're right. Why, though, do I never hear the name Ted Ginn leave anyone's lips? I've heard Sparano and Ireland many times and don;t recall them ever mentioning him. That's not to say they *dislike* him, but if they were excited about what role he was going to play, he'd have been on their mind (and lips) a few times by now. Like I said, this is all worrying and was stoked by the LoBook thing. ginn is the last guy I can see who is not a good fit for this system, imo. I love him, though, and don't care! I just hope they use him properly and often. Bpk
Great post and many great points. When Teddy came out, I compared him to Santana Moss, Steve Smith and Terry Glenn.
I think he is. He may not have the toughness to avoid getting jammed at the LOS on every play and he isn't the blocker that you would like him to be, but he is a huge downfield threat that any team would love. He's still a raw talent with lots of room to improve, he isn't a finished product by any means. If he didn't figure into plans as a WR, I think you would definitely see him returning kicks almost exclusively. Not mentioning him in a presser might have been an honest mistake or it might be an attempt to motivate him. Either way, I wouldn't concern myself with it too much.
Like VO said, you can tell they're pleased with him by not selecting a receiver. We could have selected a receiver at the 32 spot. Yes Merling was there but so were all the receivers. Remember, not ONE receiver when in the first round. To go back to the field stretching receiver he becomes for us, if they felt that Ginn was too small and not physical enough but still wanted that speed, they look no further than Devin Thomas who is 6'2, 220lbs. Thomas was there for them. James Hardy was there as well as Malcolm Kelly, they are physical players that could have been selected if they wished to have those type of presences on the football field but despite the lack of praise of Ginn to the media, they did NOT select those players and they have YET to say something NEGATIVE about him. I think in a couple of years, this team will have a Steve Smith-like player in Ginn. One other note is that Carolina was presented as a physical team. They tried to get Foster to be that physical guy for them. They had Stephen Davis there also. Yet, Smith and Muhammad made huge impacts as WR's. I don't think theyr should be a too big of a worry about Ginn being supplanted by another player. With Maser here, I think they will use Ginn correctly, may not at first but over time of the season, it will all play out correctly.
If he turns out to be a good player, yes, of course he does. Dan Henning has an extensive history with utilizing smaller, faster players. He had "The Smurfs" during his tenture with the Redskins, and utilized Steve Smith in Carolina to good effect.
Good points. I would love to see Ginn develop into a Steve Smith for us, and just find a great, tall ,,physical receiver to put on the other side, and a TE who can be a receiving threat too. If you combine that with an effective running game, then in two years we'll have a consistent offense that can hang up 28+ points on anyone. Bpk
Think about where Ginn is. He's not a star or face of the franchise. He's not even a #1 WR (yet, I hope). The only thing that separates him from being just another guy on the roster is potential. There really isn't much reason to talk about him. And this regime doesn't seem to talk about any players. Of late they've mentioned the draft picks often for obvious reasons but that's about it. The most they ever seem to say is they're happy with the work x player is putting in. The majority of what we hear is insider whispers. Now we have heard whispers (pre-draft) that they were happy with their WRs and CBs. I don't know if this is true or not but the draft would seem to support that contention.
Thanks. Exactly. I think we already have most of the pieces to the puzzle. We are developing a good young offensive line to go along with two young Quarterbacks and a young running back in RB. We have our TE in Fasano imo, hes 6'4 265, the only question reminds is if he will be consistent enough to develop as our top guy at that position. As for the tall and physical receiver, I think we have Wilford in that. He is 6'4 218 and he has good leaping ability as well as good hands. Hes a good red zone target as well as over the middle target. Hes not that great receiver you may look for but I think he will develop as an consistent target for our young quarterbacks In the end, I think it is about chemistry. Once we get this year under our belt, I think we will be possible players for the playoffs after this year or next (I have a bet with my cousin that we will be in the playoffs after this season lol). Our only question on offense could be the quarterback spot and it isn't necessarily a bad question. I think the question will be, is Henne or Beck ready to be consistent for 16 weeks?
I would caution folks about reading too much into what Ireland or Sparano has to say in the media, these guys spread propaganda like Pravda did in the 80's. As I recall, Tuna won SB's with guys like Stephen Baker and Mark Ingram at Wr who were in the 5-11 180 pd range as well, I think they look for toughness over measurables in Wr's.
It wouldn't surprise me at all if this were a motivational technique aimed at Ginn Jr. After all, this is the same FO (Parcells) that once infamously referred to Terry Glenn as "she." Good point about Henning. At the end of the day, it's probably more the Offensive Coordinator's call than the Head Coaches on who plays where. If Ginn Jr. can develop into a Terry Glenn / Steve Smith hybrid, then I'd say we've got a great playmaker on our hands.
IIRC, when Parcells joined the team he said we only had 5 or 6 football players on the team, specifically mentioning ted ginn as one of those few, along with samson satele and ronnie brown if he returned healthy. im pretty darn sure, but anyone one else who also remembers this, please confirm away. this makes me think that ted ginn will be used like crazy, that and the fact that he catches everything.
All good points, though I have a feeling that even if they disliked their receivers, they'd have focused on O-line and D-line nonetheless. At this time of year it makes sense that they have a lot to say about acquisitions and little to say about returning players. Man, am I curious to see this offense and how it chooses to move the ball. Bpk
I understand your curiosity on this team and its players Bpk but I think your stressing your self to much about this.
I KNEW it!!! The sky is falling!!! We'll cut Ted Ginn!!!!!! Just kidding. I'm over my worrying. The posters here have actually convinced me the regime is probably going to use Ted instead of sacrifice him to the volcano god. Bpk
The only reason I could see them taking Ginn of kick and punt returns is if they feel it is negatively affecting his wide receivers responsibilities. I haven't seen a lot of evidence that says they will keep him off of returns. Remember last year in training camp and the preseason Cameron had our best player on kick returns. If anything I think anything the coaching staff does or the front office says will be a smokescreen of some sort, unless like I said they think Ginn is best served just being a WR. As far as Ginn's long term future with the team I think it will simply come down to production. I don't see anyone keeping him out of the starting lineup this year. So he should get a chance to produce for this regime from day one. And if he does so to their liking I can't imagine them getting rid of him just because he isn't their prototypical receiver. Though if he doesn't produce for some reason I would be worried. It seems obvious that if a player doesn't produce his job is in jeopardy but it could be even more so for reasons that Bpk points out.
I look at the fact that Dan Henning had Steve Smith in his offense, and say in this post: How DOESN'T Ted Ginn fit into this team's Template?
we'll have to see. Obviously the went out and got two quarterbacks who aren't just game manager types, but who can really put up big numbers every now and then. I think they want their running game one way, and their passing game another way. I think that passing game has to have a smart quarterback with a pretty big arm and a vertical receiving threat. The two meet where they also want that out of a big receiver who can block well, which is not Ted. But they just want Ginn to develop into that threat, they must cause they're stuck with him. He was essentially drafted by Randy and Cam to make our toes curl on returns, whereas Sparano and Co. want a consistent big play threat as a receiver. That might mean taking him off punt returns. I hope not, but it might. I suspect if this FO was in last year's draft, they wouldn't have taken Ginn if they felt his primary value was as a returner.
I think there's a difference between an undersized HB and an undersized WR. I believe one of the reasons Booker was cut because you want players that don't start to play on special teams and Booker couldn't. It was part of the reason it took him so long to get on the field last season. Ginn is a starter though, and while you would like to have size at WR, it isn't the same as at HB. You don't see a whole lot of WR's classified as "smashmouth" either. I think this FO may like big WR's and that is a reason why Wilford was brought in. But there is also value with smaller speedier WR's. And you can look at some of the guys they looked at for the draft and two guys they looked at quite a bit were Mario Manningham and Andre Caldwell who are not big players. The top two UDFA WR's they brought in were Davone Bess and Jayson Foster who are far from big WR's. So I don't think there are any issues with Ginn in this system.
Your question marks are Ginn. http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFL/AFC/AFC+East/Miami/WWHI/default.htm
Thanks Byroan, I remember being surprised that Vernon Carey wasn't on that list, and I couldn't remember if it was Fields or Feeley that was mentioned.
I think teds value comes from having the ability to be multifaceted on the field, i don't know think he is a true #1 yet, but if you add what he can do as a receiver AND returner then i still can see the value at the #9 selection. I think Bill was impressed with tedd in the last game, i know i was, he seems to be getting really comfortable in his routes, i love the kids hands and you may not be able to see it, but the kid is tough, hopefully in about 3 or 4 years he will have packed 10 to 15 lbs of muscle on that frame, then he has a chance to be a # 1. P.s. I'am not thrilled with the release of booker, when that kids body fills out LOOK OUT, its Wes welker part 2. This kid bess and foster have some intriguing skills, perhaps they can fill that void. Lobook will be fantastic for that eagle spread offense,bet on it.
Now you've done it, we traded LBook for Shawn Murphy, last years Welker for Satele earned us a ration of crap from other fans who had never heard of Samson, now if LBook goes off, and he will, we will have Welker/Satele II...."why did you guys trade this guy, he just scored 2 Td's on the Giants..." Thanx Pal....
i guess your right bro, i like murphy a lot. but its not the same as the welker situation, we traded him for a super late second rounder that we had no idea of what kind of player we were gonna get.
Does anyone ever know what your going to get in the draft lol? With all the ups and downs throughout the draft, you never know. I doubt the Redskins thought they would get Kelly and Thomas in the second when they were projected as possible first rounders.
Either way though, if LBook does do well, and I cannot see why he wouldn't Andy Reid has a nose for good deals on players and he has the offensive mind to use them correctly, we will be hearing about this trade all of this year. Even last season, Jets fans were logging on to talk smack about Welker and how dumb we were to trade him, they had never heard of Satele...I hate being heckled by Jets fans..
when booker becomes a star, maybe the media will do a story on the two players we got in exchange for them, i think murphy is gonna be a player so add him with satele and you have quite the riveting story of contrast and preference
