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Does Flores Quit?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Sep 4, 2019.

  1. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    I think it's been made pretty clear Ross is on-board with this and isn't likely to fire Flores for a losing team at least for the next 2-3 years, but, is there any chance Flores quits because the level of overhaul is far worse than he may have been told?

    This is pure speculation - I've not read or heard a single thing along this line. However, I believe he's sincere as a coach and as a man when he says he's going to try to win, and that he despises tanking. He may understand the need, Ross says he told him the plan was to build it from the ground up, but is there any chance that some of these moves start to give him pause for thought?
     
  2. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores

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    Good question. Considering Flore's childhood and how he worked his way up the ranks in NE, I don't think he is the type of guy who quits.
     
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  3. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I don't think that's a good question at all.

    Do you guys think Flores is actually working for the Russians? I mean, I haven't seen or heard anything to suggest that, but I wasjust wondering.

    /sarcasm
     
  4. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    I hope that's obviously not the case. I did say it was speculation, but perhaps I should have more emphatically specified that I'm not say I think this is the case - I'm just pondering the possibility. Why? I'm not anti-Ross but we have had over a decade of issues in terms of leadership, from coaching to management etc. That has come from somewhere, namely Ross (despite good intentions I'm sure). Due to that, I don't think it's unreasonable to wonder whether the process of bringing Flores to the Dolphins was done the right way, or if, in fact, communication at the beginning and/or throughout this process has been 100%. If it hasn't, if Flores is taken by surprise with at least some of this - which he wouldn't admit - then that's the sort of thing that can end a business relationship quickly.
     
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  5. Not So Fast

    Not So Fast Well-Known Member

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    Head coaching opportunities are rare in the NFL, and he may not get another opportunity if he quits. The only way I see him walking out is if Grier is really incompetent and his relationship with Ross turns really sour.
     
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  6. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    I'm just surprised we haven't started fielding offers for Christian Wilkins....I mean....we drafted him in April! My God! Get rid of him now!
    No....I don't think Flores quits. But we need to acquire talented players for him to stay.
     
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  7. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores

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    I don’t know about Flores, but I was taken by surprise. I am in favor of taking a different approach; however, I didn’t think it would be this drastic. I get that we are gathering resources for a big push for a QB, I just didn’t think we would churn the roster like we have. That may be a combination of getting players that fit our scheme ( round hole, round peg), and a, just do your job, mentality. All of which I fully support.
     
  8. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I just was being sarcastic...but at the same time, would you say that question directly to Flores? I wouldn't. That's like questioning his manhood. Where I'm from there's a good chance a question like that without any reason behind it could get you punched in the mouth.
     
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  9. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    Would I just walk up and ask him? No. If I were a close personal friend I'd probably ask how things are going. Either way, my question was aimed at the forum members/thinking out loud here.
     
  10. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    It looked like a few of the trades did catch him by surprise- for instance, why would he publicly support Stills and go into details of his own life if he knew that he was going to be traded a few days later? Those moves don't jibe and it's not Flores pulling the strings here.

    About your question though- no, he can't quit....it would be career suicide. But if he stays and only wins a few games over the next few years, that's also career suicide. So unless Grier's plan works by 2021, Flores is likely out of the NFL entirely by 2022 despite any efforts he may make. He's the fall guy, the scapegoat, and there's literally nothing he can do but prepare his guys to play football.

    As I said six months ago, I don't think Ross has any intention of firing Gase until Grier got in his ear. One thing you can't say about our 2018 team is that they were quitters- we probably should have only won 2-3 games but everyone over-achieved by fighting back in games and staying positive. I don't see how that happens this season under the circumstances and I have a sneaking suspicion that the recent releases were those who questioned trading Tunsil.

    To me, it feels like the team is already falling apart before we play even the 1st game...but that's not on Flores at all since he's being gutted from the inside out. We just need to hope this ridiculous tank job plan works or it's going to cost us a decade of meaningful football. I mean, cutting John Denny? Everyone loved him and he clearly won his camp battle; the excuse that "We saw some young guys so now seemed like a good time to move on" is complete horse-****. They cut Denny for being a leader and speaking up...exactly as a leader is supposed to do.

    Trust me folks- join me in rooting for the Browns this year. I picked them completely at random since they're supposed to be an up and coming squad, and honestly all of us will need a distraction. I have a sickening feeling that by week 3 or 4 our season will be over and everyone will have given up, and there's just no turning back from what Grier has done unless we can magically make 5 starting linemen appear.
     
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  11. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    As everyone seems to agree.. why would Flores quit when being a NFL coach is a privilege? I think NFL coaches (like most humans) quit when they: 1) lose way more than THEY expected despite trying to win, or 2) they are the center of controversy, often because they aren't winning as much as the ownership expected (though the controversy could theoretically come from non-football issues).

    The one good thing about the Dolphins organization this time around seems to be that Grier and Flores are working in tandem. You get the HC and GM to push opposing views of how a team should be built and that's just inviting disaster no matter how good either is. So I'm guessing Flores was an integral part of the planning for all this. Ross wanted to "build a team the right way" and he wouldn't have hired Flores if Flores didn't agree with the basic outlines of what we're seeing now, even though the specifics might have been hard to predict.

    So I think Flores quits only if we're still a losing team in year 3 or possibly year 4 because by that time the rumors, potential player revolt, etc... will become too great. But what we're seeing now is just all part of the plan so I'm not too concerned about that part. My only concern is whether these guys know how to draft well with all their picks. Mess that part up and that's like getting the tactics wrong with the right strategy. Doesn't work either when competing teams get both right.
     
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  12. Unlucky 13

    Unlucky 13 Team Rosen Staff Member Club Member

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    Exactly. Head coaches almost never quit, unless they're retiring. Its virtually a guarantee that he would not.

    However, he very well could be fired. We'll see how things are going in the third year.
     
  13. Irishman

    Irishman Well-Known Member

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    Dumbest post of the century!
     
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  14. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    Considering that the circumstances around Gase's departure last year seemed to hint that there was disagreement between Gase and Ross and maybe TB/Grier, it's not far fetched to wonder whether history might repeat itself. We can't see what has been said nor what is being said behind closed doors. If Ross and Grier sold Flores on something different than what they put into action then it's entirely possible that Flores will ask to get out.
     
  15. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    This is putting the cart before the horse.
     
  16. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Why would you voluntarily give up a guaranteed contact?
     
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  17. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    Because he reaches the point where he's being asked to do a job but not being permitted to do it? Or where the direction he wants to head isn't the direction Grier and/or Ross want to go. Or some other scenario where he reaches the point that he cannot in good conscience continue to do the job being put before him.

    Again, I'm not saying this is likely - I've no idea. I'm simply trying to consider one not impossible scenario for what's going on and will go on.

    Ross has had a history of bad leadership decisions, so it's not implausible he might be doing more of the same.
     
  18. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito. Club Member

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    This is a question for two years down the road.
    While Tunsil was a surprise it wasn't anything that was beyond when he signed up for
     
  19. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

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    Let's check back on this in two years, though the end of year three will tell us if this razing of the roster and rebuild has a solid foundation. If the drafting is below average with all those picks, it will be obvious at that point.
     
  20. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't think there was any illusions about what was going on here between the potential coaches and the front office. Ross is an idiot, but they know for sure.
     
  21. rafael

    rafael Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    In all likelihood Flores knew the plan going in. There was no reason that his contract should have been 1 year longer than the standard contract length other than he was told going in that this was the plan.
     
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  22. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think Flores is probably 100% on board with everything they're doing, TBH. It's probably the very reason we have HC Brian Flores and not someone else.

    Flores wasn't exactly the most qualified HC candidate if you recall. Most of us here had him as our 4th or 5th choice looking at it from the outside. But that's because we were thinking schematically and looking at experience.

    ...but it seems Chris Grier had plans of which we weren't aware. This massive overhaul must've been something he was planning. I think we're now seeing just why Grier favored Flores.

    Flores is young. He's flexible. He has many years to go. Flores brought multiple years of personnel experience. He understood the nature of building a roster and of making tough decisions. He wasn't just brought in because we liked his connection to Belichick's defense.

    I think the most likely explanation is that Flores agreed to go along with the kind of stuff we're seeing. I have to believe he's on board 100%. I don't see Grier making moves without his consent.

    Grier and Flores are both relatively young guys. They're being given their shot. There's no reason for them to be conservative. Grier knows that half-measures haven't worked. And Flores comes from an organization that understands the need for vision and commitment.
     
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  23. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Dude, that's the thing. You can question anything. Doesn't mean it's valid. We're on the precipice of an absolutely terrible season, and people are going to be ridiculous...and the season hasn't started, and with no proof of any sort, we're now discussing whether or not Flores will quit. It's unnecessary and completely speculative.

    I can only imagine the topics in the months.
     
  24. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I mean, is there any evidence whatsoever that what you're describing is what's going on?
     
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  25. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I know, right?

    I'm looking around and thinking, 'am I the only person who freakin' loves this!?'
     
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  26. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    In the original post I explicitly stated that this was pure speculation. At no point did I say that I thought this was happening or likely to be happening. It's that off-season. There have been big changes. There has also been talk that with the tanking Flores might end up getting fired. Ross has explicitly stated that he's on-board with that rebuild so I think it's highly unlikely Flores gets fired within two years or three - at least, not for losing.

    I simply chose to consider altogether alternative - Flores quitting.

    If anyone doesn't enjoy this sort of speculation that's up to them. If anyone took this thread as more than that that's on them.
     
  27. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    My topic of the month for September- how about them Browns!
     
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  28. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores

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    Might be good to have a backup team. :-)
     
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  29. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    I'm a Dolphins fan because I like dolphins, as well as the colors (aqua and white). I can't get behind some team named "Browns" ugh!

    Nah, I'm mostly going to be a schadenfreude fan this year rooting AGAINST certain teams and players.. like Gase and the Jets, or Darnold and the Jets, or just the Jets. Similarly, I'm rooting against Josh "I will be a bust if cbrad has his way" Allen.

    Otherwise, I'm going to keep track of Kyler Murray. Even though I wanted us to pick him I'll be real happy if he fails since we didn't. Right now Vegas has Arizona right above us at 5.5 wins so I do hope he wins them enough games to give us the #1 pick. Seriously though.. wouldn't it be a riot if Arizona traded Rosen away, then traded Murray away to try to get their QB in 2020? lol..
     
  30. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    LOL, I'm not a Browns fan either...but I have to root for somebody that has a chance to compete and I like Mayfield so far. I'll probably watch some Tennessee once Tannehill inevitably takes over, and yeah...I'll watch Gase and the Jets some too.

    It's tough because as fans we hate the Ravens, Jets, Bills, Pats, Indy, etc....most of the AFC really. But then I can't root for a top team in the NFC either because I hate those fans that bounce around from year to year. So I needed a bad AFC team on the upswing or an okay NFC squad...my now hometown Panthers would be a good one but I just don't like them (not sure why even). I thought about the Bears because someone like a 2nd father to me used to love em, but they're too good to join that bandwagon.

    So screw it- go Browns! =)
     
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  31. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    I hate everything about the Dolphins right now but I'm never going to root for another team during a season or have a "second favorite team".
     
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  32. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Gase just sounds like a really difficult guy to work with - I wouldn't read anything into his relationship with Grier or Ross vs Flores' relationship with them. All NFL coaches are total psychos to some degree. Some (Gase) seem more than most others.

    It's hard to see Flores just up and quitting, but if he was essentially promised a QB in 2020 and we bail on that (for whatever reason) and punt on most draft picks/continue to obviously tank ... I don't think it's a ludicrous question. I've said it elsewhere - you go two seasons racking up, say, 5 wins between them both and don't have a QB? That makes you look like the next Hue Jackson, not the next BB. He may bail before that point.

    Honestly though, it's a really weird thing to speculate about right now before season 1 is even fully underway.
     
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  33. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    I’ve quit and walked away from a very high paying job, one that when I started that career was one of the “dream jobs” in that industry.

    I’ve also had some friends do the same thing, some in the same industry, some in others. When we’ve talked about it, the basic reason is that the job had become such a burden that it was eating away at your soul and draining all the happiness from your life.
    How did we get to that situation. Well there are many factors, but some common ones were
    1) Not being rewarded/recognized for your genuine accomplishments. Linked to this is others being given credit for your work. The reverse side of this coin is being blamed for bad things that are outside of your responsibility.
    2) Lack of control and being micromanaged.
    3) Accumulation of resentment from long term petty behaviors. If you get ticked off at something small and it instantly reminds you of the last ten times something like that happened over the last 5 years, that’s a bad sign.
    4) Putting up with political BS. Spending time and effort on internal politics that could be more profitably spent doing your actual job. This gets exponentially worse if you feel you have no trusted friends and are worried that anyone could knife you given the opportunity.

    Now all of these basically happen in every job, but it’s when they get much worse than normal that it becomes a problem. Usually it took a combination of at least 2 or 3 factors for me or my friends to quit.

    Putting these into Brian Flores’ position. Factor (3) is a non starter for now. Factor (4) will only come into play if/when the Griers/Flores relationship sours. There’s no Tannenbaum hovering in the background second guessing their moves. Factor (1) will come into play if our record is poor and the players Griers drafts/signs don’t develop; also if we have a good record and Griers takes all the credit for drafting the players. Factor (2) doesn’t seem to be in play, but if Griers starts pressuring Flores to sit/start certain players then it could come in.
    Also all of these factors could come into play as well if Flores tries to take over the GM’s duties a la Gase in New York.

    Basically as long as Flores and Grier stay in their lanes I really can’t see any reason why Flores would quit. I certainly expect some pushing of boundaries given the nature of their respective jobs, and would consider not pushing the boundaries to be a negative. However if they limit their bumping into each other in reasonable limits then they should be able to work together indefinitely.
     
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  34. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    Go find a Browns forum then :tongue2:
     
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  35. Puka-head

    Puka-head My2nd Fav team:___vs Jets Club Member

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    I have a second favorite team. Have since I was 6, long time ago. It's whoever is playing the jest. Unless thats the pasties, then I root for the trainers of both teams.
     
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  36. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    None of those 4 apply to HC's in the NFL except on maybe a micro scale.

    Two of the most common reasons NFL coaches quit are: 1) they fail to win despite their best efforts, and 2) they get a better offer someplace else. Often it's a combination of the two.

    For example..

    Bobby Petrino (Falcons): quit after only 13 games with a 3-10 record after getting a 5-year deal elsewhere worth $2.85 mil per year.
    Nick Saban (Dolphins): quit after a 6-10 record after getting a $32 mil elsewhere making him one of the highest paid HC's anywhere.
    Dave Wannstedt (Dolphins): quit during his first losing season when the Dolphins were 1-8.
    Bruce Coslet (Bengals): quit midseason at 0-3 after posting a 3-13 and 4-12 season.
    Lou Holtz (Jets): quit after 3-13 his first season coaching with 1 game remaining.
    Jimmy Johnson (Dolphins): with expectations to win a SB, he quit after 4 years of no discernible improvement in win%.

    Then you have the case of good coaches that just walk away after some time. Why? I think Pete Carroll said it best:
    In other words, burnout.

    So I think it's one of those three things: 1) failure to win, 2) good offer elsewhere, 3) burnout. Most likely case with Flores is #1 if either Grier with Flores' input doesn't get the drafting right, or Flores turns out not to be a good coach.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2019
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  37. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Nope, I'm with you - we've needed to be taken down by a wrecking ball and then rebuilt for so long, that although we likely won't win many, there is enough to keep me watching (how the D is going to play, will there be more discipline, establishing X-Island, young players progressing, good game planning, coaching).
     
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  38. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Would you have expected him to come down hard on Stills in public then, as that creates a toxic environment and likely makes him untradeable? No. Instead, he publicly supported him, which is what a good HC should be doing. Whether he privately stripped him down, no idea.
    Wasn't there reports of a fall out between Ross & Gase after the Colts game though, which was more likely the beginning of the end (particularly taking into account the fact that the team laid down over the final 3 weeks), so unlikely that Grier had anything to do with it.
    You are reaching Key with your comments re people questioning the decisions made post Tunsil. Taylor wasn't a scheme fit, was often injured and wasn't playing well and that won't fly with this staff. Orchard was hardly the new LT and our DC likely had a hand in the waiver claim for Crawford, as he worked with him in Green Bay. Sad to see Denney go but if he isn't able to cover the ground as well as he could at 40 or his snapping on punts in the preseason hasn't been on point (someone reported this recently on Club I think), this is an issue, so have bought someone is who can potentially do the job better (will he be, no idea).
    We have all wanted this total rebuild for several years now and we can't all suddenly throw our toys out of the pram because we finally have a FO that is doing it & a coaching staff who is prepared to go through the short term pain. If it doesn't work, they are all gone anyhow.
    Even if our season is over by week 4, there is still plenty to look at - will the D be better (it can't be worse), will the game plans actually take into account the skill set of the players, will some of these unknown youngsters take the next step, will our stars also progress (Baker, X, Minkah), will Harris & Gesicki also look half decent, will there be evidence in the play of the team that we have a competent coaching staff? There's a lot to play for.
     
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  39. Patster1969

    Patster1969 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    From reading Flores back story and his journey to HC, doesn't fit his profile as someone that would be a quitter
     
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  40. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    Let me just say thanks guys for these last several posts. Just what I was hoping for, really appreciate you sharing your thoughts and comments.

    I get that this isn't something that would happen for a good while, if at all, it just seemed to be another angle for consideration at this time where we're facing all these changes and looking ahead and what might be. More specifically, we're wondering what happens if picks don't work out, or whether this is a one or two year 'tank', or whether Ross might end up firing Flores after a couple of years of losing... and it occurred to me that one other possibility, however remote, might be that Flores is the one whom this affects most.

    He's a first time Head Coach - that's a lot of unknown for him, a lot of pressure, a lot of stress. We don't know how he'll handle it, how good of a coach he'll be - he doesn't even know - it'll be a massive learning curve. There's liberty in that it seems he gets to build this his way, and he's apparently being empowered to do that (there are recent reports about a lot of these cuts/selections being made more by Flores than Grier) - and that's a great thing, IMO, at least in that he hopefully won't feel like he's being limited and can't do things his way (a big deal if you're the guy being held chiefly responsible for turning the team around). All of this, plus the seemingly drastic way the Phins are going about this, won't be easy.

    As much as the eyes are on the roster right now, there's a TON on Flores' plate. That's the job, I just hope that Ross, and to a lesser extent Grier, have figures out a good work structure/relationship. Because if not, that pressure will crack something.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2019

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