Does anyone recall where Chris Long would have played for us?

He was supposed to move from DE to the strongside LB. With the comparisons to Mike Vrabel, there was even talk about him possibly being a candidate to slide inside.

 

I'm not sure you can make that assumption. There were many people that though Chris Long was the best player in the draft. That's why they would have taken him, not necessarily because they didn't believe in Roth. And while there was speculation he would have played the strong side there were others that thought he fit better on the weak side and would be Porter's eventual replacement. They also had no idea whether Roth would be able to play linebacker because at that point he was a DE. So, I really don't see how the fact that they liked Chris Long means Roth is just a stopgap.

 

He was supposed to move from DE to Sam, based on some of the opinions posted here. I do not recall Miami ever stating they would have done that, had they drafted him.
From my own point of view, I think I said I'd have played him at RDE. It was a topic that did not have a consensus though as I recall.

 

I think they went into the draft thinking that pass rush is a necessity....with the mindset that if Roth doesn't pan out, then we have his replacement...and if Roth does well then we have a guy to groom behind Joey since Porter didn't have the greatest 07 season entering last years draft.

Tuna probably knew prior to the draft that Merling had the frame and athleticism to either gain weight and play DE or trim down and move to OLB if they were unsure about Roth. It could be said that FO has confidence in Roth b/c Merling wasn't moved to OLB to compete with Matt. If this is the case, I could see nothing that Matt did last season to cause the FO to question their decision....therefore I don't see us taking one of the top OLB who falls unless they feel he can play equally well against the run as Roth, but better vs pass. If such a player doesn't exist, I could see them preferring a pass rush specialist in rounds 3-5....and possibly intensifying the pass rush from the Dline with Evander Hood, whom Padre and I greatly like.

If we're looking at it from the perspective of having to beat the Pats, then I take Hood 1st to help shorten the time Brady has to pick us apart....then I'd take Dorell Scott to add pressure from NT.

IMO, Wake is here to groom for a year to replace Joey
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Padre, I know what you're saying about Merling and only 7 sacks, but his stats are misleading. He was actually a great pass rusher. He's an ex TE who runs a 4.7 with great athleticism for his size. Don't forget I'm a Clemson fan.

In his defense, he was only a Junior playing strongside....but he did have 21 QB hurries and created a ton of broken plays that don't show up in the stats column. He's a more athletic version of Dallas's Greg Ellis, so teams were looking at him with the potential to also play Hybrid. I personally wouldn't spend a 1st rounder on a similar player to Merling with the hopes of making an upgrade b/c Phillip might just end up making him his backup.
LOL.
Someone who is bigger and stronger than Merling to play on 1st/2nd downs and short yardage is a different story. 6'4 320 Dorell Scott could be that guy.
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PS: I like plan B.
IMO plan B's effectiveness would have to revolve around drafting Hood, Scott, and Casey (since we need an impact offensive player then fill in the rest with a DB who can play FS(or vice versa) like Sean Smith, Jairus Byrd, Sherrod Martin, Rashad Johnson, or Chris Clemons; an ultra quick CB to cover slot/Welker; and a pass rush specialist like Victor Butler. ?????

 

He only started his senior year, otherwise he was a sub before that.

 

after listening to Pasqualoni sing high praises of Roth not only in his first year, but projecting it into the future I think he stays. I might try and fing the quote.. be back...

edit; no joy, I can find players and Sparano archives but not any other coaches.. dang it

 

Padre, now that we're really digging into it, I feel it would be an impractical draft move to try and completely replace Roth unless FO feels the prospect can satisfy every aspect you mentioned. The only guy I see that as is Barwin. Thanks to Cushing and Mathews, I don't see that happening now. Ugggg!

Good point about LOLB sack totals. Roth's done nothing but improve so it's likely that with an improved DLine he will have at least 8 sacks next year, where as a 1st round rook might not see 8 sacks for a few years....after all, Matt was a dominant pass rusher at Iowa. IMO he has earned a shot to show us what he can do with 1 full year under his belt.

 

not sure I understand that.. it was his first year in the pro's at that position and he was one of the very best at setting the edge.. add that to his pressures and sacks and I thgink he did a pretty good job. I DO agree with you and look forward to see how his game improves with that first year under his belt. I would expect ol Fred Munster to play faster..

 

Good catch. Sorry. I'm on an iPhone. That should be nothing BUT improve.

 

I'd be very happy with that....as long as we can still squeeze in James Casey. I wouldn't mind if we went all defense with the draft as long as Casey is in there somewhere.

 

Padre, nice parallel with Cushing/Mathews to Merriman. I'd probably just avoid them like genital warts for nothing more than preventing any bad press or locker room tension. These kids are probably going to need shrinks for a while to deal with this huge turn around in their lives that I'd rather let someone else deal with. LOL.

 

Herman it is ! I sit corrected

 

I totally know what you mean- I was a personal trainer in college.
What you just said was the reason I was praying we didn't draft Gholston last year.
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I was referring to the graceful way he moves and runs..

 

Hahaha. If he looks like a Herman and runs like a Herman....then he must be a duck. Or something like that
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So you've decided they are both definitely juicers, no matter what other information comes out on this?

 

Matthews was 210 as a freshman, 4 years ago. Now he is 240. How is that fishy?
I don't know how much weight Cushing has gained since his freshman year, but since he was already playing regularly, it is safe to presume he has gained less in that time than Matthews has.

If these are the only two top players in this draft that you are going to worry are likely juicers, IMO, you are way off base.

 

Yea, but dont worry they are not alone....there are a ton of other players who ust didnt get caught.

And like Ricky was the only guy in the league smoking weed, there are drugs at every level of major sports, its sad but a reality.

 

Mathews- not so much. Cushing-totally!! I've been around roids enough to know what roid muscles look like, especially on a 22 year old.

For Mathews, 30-40 pounds of muscle is still a lot to gain. He has some of the water retention appearance to go with it, but I'll suspend verdict till I know more on Clay.
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I'm not worried about them juicing. I just care that they were caught and now bear the "scarlett letter".... only the S stands for steroids. LOL. I'd rather have a guy who can keep doing roids because he's not under scrutiny like Barwin
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210 as a freshmen? I've read 166. One of the two is off, lol.

 

The 166 is off. According to Clay Sr in a recent interview, Jr was 165 when he was a HS junior. Also according to Clay Jr in a recent radio interview, he was 210 as a freshman, and he said he has no idea where the 166 weight number came from.

 

Thank you.

That makes it quite a bit easier to believe that he didn't gain an incredible amount of weight because of steroids.

 

The only part of Cushing that looks abnormally developed to me are his biceps. When he ran shirtless at the USC pro day while his body looked great, it did not scream steroids to me. I've been around weight lifting and bodybuilding for over 30 years, and I know for a fact one can have biceps like Cush has, without controlled substances.

 

Just a quick question, do you think it would be naive to believe that the use of substances such as steroids and HGH in college and pro football is NOT commonplace?

If I stated it would be naive to not believe their use is commonplace, would that make me arrogant?

Also, since the claim they tested pos was refuted, did they really get caught any more than perhaps guys like Maybin or Orakpo?

 

Roth was actually pretty decent rushing the passer last season.

With Wake signing and Charlie Anderson starting to perhaps show a little bit down the stretch, I think the larger issue is still middle pressure.

Roth is a lot like Baltimore's Jarrett Johnson.

Like Roth, he's a converted DE who sets the edge over on the strong side. Despite it being Roth's first year at LB, their 2008 stats are pretty much identical to one another.

Roth - 53 tackles....5 sacks...2 FF...4 PD
Johnson - 56 tackles...5 sacks...2 FF...3 PD

The major difference being the talent around them, as nearly everyone on the Baltimore defense is/was better than their counterpart in Miami.

We must get a better pass rush this season, and our LB play has to be better overall. But I'm not sure that 2-down Matt Roth is necessarily the weakest link.