If Grove really is traded away, then you've got to wonder about throwing all that money at him. But, if there was one clear advantage to Grove, it was that he could handle the Vince Wilforks and Kris Jenkins of the world better than Satele. To be fair, in '08 Satele was playing between Alleman and Ndukwe, but all things considered, I still feel like Grove was the better of the two. Shame he's more injury prone.
I'm not sure about anyone named Groves on our roster in recent years, but Satele is absolutely worse than Grove and Berger.
Grove > Satele. I guess the issue was the money dumped on Grove. But really not bad, not worse than the cash pissed away on Gibril Wilson or Ernest Wilford.
Yeah but didn't we sign Grove and his family? So in reality we signed.............(the)....... Groves..
ill take satele, he was on the field. but only cause of groves injuries.....not because of satele being better.
Grove by alot. Satele looked like he had potential his rookie season that didn't pan out the second year. Grove, when he was healthy was elite.
Satele got his @ss handed to him too many times to count. Granted, Ndukwe and alleman weren't much better but c'mon. If you want good players you kinda have to pay for them. Only so many Bess' and Camarillos wandering around.
Satele has been injured of late & might not get his job back. I'll take Grove all day long over Satele and they also talk about Misi & IAF in the link below. http://www.evri.com/media/article;j...;jsessionid=n82hq35kja35&referring_title=Evri
Grove is better, but how much Im not sure. Satele was let go because he could not get a push up the middle. Its the reason Ronnie danced so much behind the line because Satele couldnt push enough to open a hole for him to get through. The line collapsed often due to constant penetration in the middle. As soon as Ronnie would get the ball he was met by a gang of tacklers. Grove is stronger and much more forceful after the snap. Satele was healthy but out of shape and was made up of more fat than muscle. Problem with Grove as we know is he just cant stay healthy and I think him losing that playing time has cost him some of his strength. Were not going to settled at the center position for a little while longer it seems.
I actually sat through a couple of Raiders pre-season games and made it a point to watch Satele. He looked like his second year form all over. Every snap he would be pushed back 3-4 yards immediately and not giving the QB room to step up into the pocket to make his throw. He also had a hard time picking up blitzes and even failed to dump his man and get to the second level on runs up the gut. He did look good a few times with some outside pulls, but overall it was pretty bad to watch.
The issue is the ton of money we threw at an injury prone player, hoping he wasn't injury prone anymore. The guy played exactly one 16 game season in 5 seasons with Oakland. It's not even close he averaged 10.8 games per season over 5 seasons. Then we threw a ton of money at him. What makes it worse is that he was injured in the game we played against them the season before we signed him.
Grove for sure. He's held down the position better than Satele did. I heard then talkin about Satele on Sirius NFL radio the other day, saying he's an average player at best, and that the Raiders presently aren't too thrilled with him and he may loose his starting job. Which, I see was also pointed out in a post above.
Jdang, do you hope we re-sign Ronnie? I'm only curious because almost the exact same thing can be said about him in regards to his history.
not even close .... we talked at length about Satele, his short arms and inability to get a push or get to the 2d level ..... Grove has - is an injury history ... got it -- but you can't compare their on the field ability -- not even close. The fact that Beger is pushing him is not a bad thing ... not in the slightest
This is an easy one....Grove is upper level to very good C when healthy. Satele is mediocre to poor level C when healthy. Satele couldn't wrest and hold the starting job in Oakland. He only started here because we simply didn't have anyone better....I'll take an injury prone C of Grove's caliber over a guy that is just a guy along the OL...
Shouldn't the more appropriate question be Grove or Berger? The Dolphins gave a lot of money to Jake Grove and if he doesn't start this year (and it looks like he won't) then a ton of that money was wasted. But the bottom line is the Dolphins ditched Samson Satele and then signed both Jake Grove AND Joe Berger. So it's a more complicated question than just Grove versus Satele. Just the two players on their own merits, Grove absolutely. Factor in the money, well I think that's when Satele wins. Factor in that without trading Satele we might not have gotten Brian Hartline, well ok now you have to go back to Grove's camp a little. Factor in that the Dolphins hired both Berger and Grove at the same time they ditched Satele, in addition to Satele helping us get Hartline...ok, buh bye Samson.
At an appropriate price. Grove at an appropriate price would have been worth it. Not $6m per for a half injured center.
I don't think it's even up for much debate. One can start credibly in the NFL and one can't. Grove may be a little inconsistant, and injury prone, but we knew he was injury prone going in, just like Smiley. No deal is without risk, and though we clearly overpayed for Grove, he was a building block that we needed, considering Berger is on his second go around here after being let loose by what, two other teams besides us? The real folly was expecting that a lineup of Grove, Smiley, Thomas, Long and Carey were going to hold up for a whole year. All that said; I'll take Grove over Satle any day.
If you look close, Berger gets absolutely no push up the middle, none. His first move is straight up in the air and is getting pushed around like a human shopping cart. Grove is much better but its pretty apparent he has something going on with either his leg/legs or even worse, his shoulder/shoulders because its pretty clear, there is something bothering him. To Groves credit, he does stay low but as I said, there is some sort of problem
Satele was a nice improvement from what we had before him. Grove is a nice improvement from what we had before him (Satele). The next guy will be a nice improvement on what we have now.
