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Dion Jordan and Sheldon Richardson.... Did the Dolphins make a mistake?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by hidden202, Dec 16, 2014.

  1. hidden202

    hidden202 New Member

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    Did the Dolphins make a mistake for choosing Dion Jordan over Sheldon Richardson? I'm frustrated to see no matter how awful the Jets are that Sheldon Richardson is putting together a good season at 6.5 sacks and is an anchor to build around on that Jets defense.


    Is there any hope left for Dion Jordan? Will he be better than Sheldon Richardson eventually?
     
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  2. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    this is a tough thing for me, cause I had both players even coming out..one is a young stud, the other a 290 lb junk food dope head.

    imo..dion jordan is 30 to 35 bs overweight.... and has gotten some really bad advice by his coaching staff.
     
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  3. HogsHDFinsfan

    HogsHDFinsfan New Member

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    DJ is not even half the player SR is. DJ was a huge mistake.
     
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  4. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    It isn't even a debate at this point in their careers. Richardson is by far the better player and it appears Jordan is headed in the direction of being one of the biggest bust in Dolphin history.

    The fact Jordan only gets on the field for about a third of the Dolphins defensive plays and you hardly ever see him make a play shows clearly that the coaching staff has very little confidence in his play making ability. At this point, if he wasn't such a high selection in the draft and owed so much money, I have to wonder if he would even still be on this roster.

    I would take Richardson over Jordan any day of the week.
     
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  5. fins104

    fins104 New Member

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    We traded up and gave up a 2nd round pick for a guy who plays 20 plays a game. No **** the dolphins made a mistake. Dion Jordan is not good as well as the dolphins are morons and don't know how to properly use their players.
     
  6. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    They've taken a big, steamy dump all over his season this year even after the suspension.

    I think Derrick Shelby has done more edge rushing than Jordan this year.
     
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  7. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    How is this even a question at this point? A blind man could see that Jordan is a huge bust. We should have taken an offensive lineman.
     
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  8. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Hard to argue that we should have taken an offensive lineman. Dion Jordan just makes zero sense, especially given how the staff has managed him. A stud offensive lineman would have been a huge addition to the team.
     
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  9. dolphin25

    dolphin25 Well-Known Member

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    Did not like the move up or the pick. I would like to move him to OLB if they are forced to keep him.
     
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  10. maynard

    maynard Who, whom?

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    He is not a down lineman in my view. The staff would prefer to put Jimmy Wilson on Gronk rather than adjust their sub packages to put Jordan on him on more plays. Jordan has his issues, but the staff is not helping him. A change of staff can save him
     
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  11. scotty_irnbru

    scotty_irnbru Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I agree with this. A talented inventive staff would see him used far more effectively. This bunch of wooly headed ninny muggins are wasting the pick.
     
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  12. GARDENHEAD

    GARDENHEAD Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Is a BJ better than a kick in the nuts?
    Is pizza better than some rusty nails?
    Is a Ferrari better than a Geo Metro?
    Need I go on.................................
     
  13. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    is a frogs *** water tight?
     
  14. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I just don't understand why we drafted Dion Jordan. I have no doubt that he was and still is a good prospect.

    When you have Cam Wake and Olivier Vernon, why on Earth would you move up to draft a similar player?

    When you are establishing a 4-3 scheme, why on Earth would you select a 3-4 OLB prospect?

    Dion Jordan is not a bad player, but selecting him made no sense.
     
  15. mroz

    mroz Rosen is a franchise QB Club Member

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    I see your dion Jordan and raise you one Dallas thomas
     
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  16. Alex13

    Alex13 Welcome to the NEW Miami Club Member

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    we could fix that with drafting eddie goldman this year
     
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  17. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    No doubt Thomas was another wasted draft pick, but at least we didn't have to give up our first round draft pick and a second round draft pick to move up to draft him.

    What makes it even worse is that as bad as he has been at RT, Thomas has still been a more productive player for the Dolphins than Jordan has been this year. At least Thomas has been okay in the running game. I'm still waiting to see Jordan do anything productive on the defensive side of the ball this year.
     
  18. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    Drafting him when the biggest need was offensive line help and the BPA in my opinion WAS an O lineman made no sense.
    With that said, Dion Jordan has been completely misused by this coachong staff.
     
  19. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    They drafted Jordan before Vernon broke out, and they wanted a guy who could start opposite of Wake to play a specific set of techniques that Vernon doesn't do particularly well at.

    They thought Jordan could gain weight and strength and be a Mario Williams/Julius Peppers/Carlos Dunlap type guy. Projecting a weight/technique shift among defensive linemen is something that is an inexact science but can pay off big.

    At this point they're running their heads into a wall with it.
     
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  20. Phins_Fan_87

    Phins_Fan_87 Phins and Heat fan Club Member

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    id like to see how jordan can develop under rex
     
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  21. Tannedank

    Tannedank Banned

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    It's too early to call him a bust. Definitely good reason to be concerned though. Ansah imo might have been the better, safer pick long term. Richardson would have been a huge reach after the trade up, which I still think was a good move.
     
  22. Tannedank

    Tannedank Banned

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    And don't forget Jordan helps combat Cameron Wakes greatest foe. Father time.
     
  23. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    IMO it's more of the coaching staff not using him the best way than it is him being a bust. Marino could have been labeled a bust if we just asked him to do nothing but hand it off and run with it.
     
  24. FanMarino

    FanMarino Season Ticket Holder

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    Up to this juncture? Jordan is taking up another "potential" player spot. To be drafted that high, giving his timings, testings and interviews....i'm still waiting as we all are. He's a bust regarding where Miami picked him. Right now he's a 5th rounder and i'm being kind. He either needs a serious kick up the *** or a serious kick out of the door. Take your pick.
     
  25. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You're correct in that Vernon "broke out" during the same year that Jordan was a rookie, however, the team must've massively under-appreciated what Vernon was developing into if they felt that trading up to draft someone #3 overall was a wise move.

    On one hand, there's little doubt that the team over-estimated Jordan's impact. But if that were the case, wouldn't we have seen Jordan "forced" onto the field more often?

    Coyle has spoken several times on the issue of Dion Jordan. His comments have indicated that there is not an ideal place to put him. So essentially, Dion Jordan was handed to Coyle who was subsequently put in the position of asking, "what am I supposed to do with this guy?"

    Vernon and Wake have really never been challenged as the de facto starters, which leads me to believe that someone (probably Ireland) fell in love with an image of who they thought Jordan was.

    There is little evidence that the coaches asked for Dion Jordan to be drafted. Neither Philbin nor Coyle seem overwhelmingly excited to have Jordan. The lack of playing time would also indicate that the coaches are happy to keep Jordan in a rotational role. To date, no one from the team (who has spoken to the media) has ever acted as though Dion Jordan is a high-priority.

    As I have explained several times, I have no ill-will towards Dion Jordan in particular. He was a good prospect coming out of college and DE is one of the hardest positions to have to adapt to in the NFL. No rookie prospect comes out of college with even 50% of the pass rushing ability that the NFL mandates so there will always be a steep learning curve.

    That all being said, I'm happy if the Dolphins chose to move forward with Dion Jordan. He absolutely is a high-value asset with Wake starting to decline. I think that from a business standpoint, Wake has a high-potential as trade bait. I think Wake is a 2nd rounder waiting to happen. Hickey so far is batting 1000 in the 2nd round.
     
  26. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I can understand if you thought it was a good move at the time. Yet after seeing the total lack of production by Jordan this year and little production last year, I have no idea why you would still consider it a good move at this time.

    I agree with your follow up post that Father Time appears to be catching up with Wake. I just don't see Jordan as the player who is going to step up and fill the spot when Wake is no longer on the team.

    In hindsight, the trade up for Jordan was a major blunder by Ireland. We gave up our own pick in the first round and a second round draft pick for a player who barely gets on the field on defense and who has had his best plays this year on special teams.

    My prediction is that Jordan will be out of Miami as soon as another team is willing to trade a middle to late round pick for him. He is not a player to build this team around for the future.
     
  27. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    How do see the selection of Dion Jordan as a "good move" when the team already had Wake and had drafted Olivier Vernon a year prior (who put up 10+ sacks in his 2nd year)?

    I don't hate Dion Jordan by any stretch and I'm optimistic about his future, but I would say that trading up to take a DE was unwise.
     
  28. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I would love to see that too. Unfortunately I don't see that happening because I think Rex is headed to television next season and not to the Miami Dolphins.
     
  29. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think they reasonably thought he was the best player available and had the means to appropriately use him. I think it was reasonable to do so even with Vernon being a "pretty good" player. Both Vernon and Jordan have position flexibility.

    Stephen Ross was pretty candid in that there was a strong consensus within the franchise even among the coaches with Jordan being the guy they liked.

    I would like to see what the full decision making process on Jordan has been, but I think the most bizarre and convoluted thing was why they took him away from things he was good at in 2013.
     
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  30. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well, it makes me a bit happier to hear you say that there is faith in the organization that Dion Jordan was the guy they all wanted. I certainly hope that's not just BS.

    Hearing people say "position flexibility" kind of makes me nervous because it's such a nebulous term. I think we'd both agree that "position flexibility" is something that the Coordinator has to make use of.

    I certainly don't see Jordan as the ideal 43 DE, but I don't see him as a 43 LB of any kind either. I think that idea is a bit far-fetched.

    What are the coaches not doing right now that they could be doing, or that they were doing last year?
     
  31. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Last year Jordan was a Nickel edge rusher(DE or OLB) and as a true Nickel LB. That's where his best fit is IMO, his pass rushing should be coming as a wider technique edge rusher, and as a blitzer.

    This year Jordan is a 6-technique type DE in base packages, and seems to largely play as a 3-technique in Nickel packages(either as an outright defensive tackle, or standing up there). I don't think either one is particularly helpful or appropriate.
     
  32. Deerless Dice

    Deerless Dice Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    do you think it's best to kick out Jordan to OLB full time for 2016?
     
  33. roy_miami

    roy_miami Well-Known Member

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    So there is no way Jordan could have possibly been a bust? If they would have kept his weight off and tried to keep him as an OLB we'd have other people saying they misused him and he should have been a DE. I remember most poeple had him pegged as Jason Taylor clone, but better obviously. Elite players will shine through and thrive no matter where they are played. Period.
     
  34. Onehondo

    Onehondo Senior Member Club Member

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    If you trade a second round pick and your first round pick to move up to the #3 pick you expect to get an impact player not a prospect or a project player. He may eventually develop into a good player, but the key word is develop, he wasn't drafted as a developmental player. Should they stick it out with him, or should they trade him if the opportunity arises?
     
  35. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I see Jordan as a hybrid 34 rush-OLB so I would tend to agree with you that he was an asset in that 'nickel rusher' role you describe. However, while that works I think the coaches want more than that out of a #3 overall guy. After all, you certainly don't want to move up that high in the draft thinking you're getting a guy whose only going to contribute in 3rd and long situations.

    Can you really sit back and let your #3 overall pick play a very situational role like that? I agree that he's become more the DE in base packages in situations where he's allowed Vernon to rotate out, but isn't that the logical "next step" in letting him see more action in our 43 defense? Again, I tend to see this as putting Coyle in a bad position. It's great to have the extra talent, but I would think that the team is going to do everything they can to mold Jordan into something that more resembles a starting 43 DE. I just don't see Jordan as a good fit for Coyle's defense at all really.

    I agree with you that he's contributed best as a situational rusher from the outside but that's such a small role for a #3 pick. Wouldn't you say that he's a luxury of a pick for a team that could've used that #3 (or #12) pick to sure up other more critical positions?

    Certain fans will chastise the guy for not contributing but there's very little he can do outside of the "situational" role in which he's been placed. I think the coaching staff is attempting to "do what they can" to make him into something that resembles a full-time player.
     
  36. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    The toughest part of that trade is not only could we have had Sheldon or Star Lotuluei or Kyle Long by staying put but we could have had Eddie Lacy, Leveon Bell or Kiki Alonso with our 2nd pick.

    I think the 2013 draft is still haunting us. Jenkins could be a good one but the rest of it appears to be a complete bust. You just can't miss that bad on an entire draft and compete at a high level.
     
  37. DolphinGreg

    DolphinGreg Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    While you can generally look back with hindsight and make any average draft look like a failure...Jeff Ireland was a disaster.

    Not only did he miss on the future Pro-Bowlers but he generally wound up with crap...not even decent contributors.
     
  38. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    completely agree. Especially when you factor in how abysmal his "upgrades" at LB. I'm not sure if Philbin deserves another year but I don't think it can be overstated how poor we've been at talent acquisition prior to Hickey. Big spending in FA is a long term recipe for failure. It's been our life support to remain competitive because we've been so poor at drafting.

    It's almost criminal when you consider all the 2nd round WASTED draft picks: Phillip Merling, Chad Henne, Pat White, Daniel Thomas, Jonathan Martin, Jamar Taylor a draft pick traded for Jordan. Our 3rd rounders are almost as bad.
     
  39. Ludacris

    Ludacris Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Prior to the draft the Dolphins had major interest in both Sheldon Richardson AND Kiko Alonso. Those two would be Dolphins today if Jordan was not traded for.
     
  40. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=- Club Member

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    Jeff bleeping Ireland
     
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