Did this season hurt Tannehill?

Honestly, I'm not getting the jump in logic here. The only thing this year SHOULD prove to anyone, is that we have been handcuffing Tannehill to a roster that just doesn't perform at a high level. On paper they look good to great, but potential never translates to the field. Tannehill, has bee putting in above avg QB play while surrounded with the very team so many people are ready to give up on. Imagine if he was surrounded with talent that could make any QB look good... Or just give him good players that consistently perform around him on offense. He has NEVER been what was holding this team back.

I've said it before, if the organization decides to move on from Tannehill, then I'm fine with that decision. It sucks cause I don't believe we really got to see what he can do, but sometimes a change is good for both sides.

"Phins_to_Win wrote:

Honestly, I'm not getting the jump in logic here. The only thing this year SHOULD prove to anyone, is that we have been handcuffing Tannehill to a roster that just doesn't perform at a high level. On paper they look good to great, but potential never translates to the field. Tannehill, has bee putting in above avg QB play while surrounded with the very team so many people are ready to give up on. Imagine if he was surrounded with talent that could make any QB look good... Or just give him good players that consistently perform around him on offense. He has NEVER been what was holding this team back.

I've said it before, if the organization decides to move on from Tannehill, then I'm fine with that decision. It sucks cause I don't believe we really got to see what he can do, but sometimes a change is good for both sides.

well how many years have to go by before you get a feel for a qb he got 5 years? and goff and wents took bigger strides in less than 2 years with really less than RT did in 5. Wentz now has ajayi and alshon Jeffrey, goff has Watkins an gurley, we have landry DP and stills. Im just merely saying not based on RT play but the base that this season has been so awful and if they decide to go away from everyone and start a change that could hurt RT, say he played this year and excelled and Miami looked good and so did RT then his stock would be high, but now that Miami's name is really in the dumps and if we move on from him who do you think would pay him anything near what he's getting right now? that's my logic.

I'm gonna take a different tack here:

I think it's very likely this season helped Tannehill in the long term. Ryan started from day one, he never had to compete for the job. He never developed the way QBs used to..learning from the sidelines.

Not only has he learned a lot from the sidelines this year, he's gotten a taste of having to watch someone else take the helm of HIS TEAM.

I think Ryan has a Pro Bowl caliber season next year...

"bigballa2102 wrote:

well how many years have to go by before you get a feel for a qb he got 5 years? and goff and wents took bigger strides in less than 2 years with really less than RT did in 5. Wentz now has ajayi and alshon Jeffrey, goff has Watkins an gurley, we have landry DP and stills. Im just merely saying not based on RT play but the base that this season has been so awful and if they decide to go away from everyone and start a change that could hurt RT, say he played this year and excelled and Miami looked good and so did RT then his stock would be high, but now that Miami's name is really in the dumps and if we move on from him who do you think would pay him anything near what he's getting right now? that's my logic.

The problem is you haven't seen enough, so you cannot make a determination.

Some of us have seen enough. He is the real deal. This year should prove that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

"Walter wrote:

LOL

You actually believe that ?
Wheres that guy from Vt. who was talking about why people might not come here......Oh wait Vt. probably agrees with him or just as sharp...thinks " Not only has he learned a lot from the sidelines this year, he's gotten a taste of having to watch someone else take the helm of HIS TEAM." And is a pro bowler next year.....Go figure maybe we should just bench all the starters for a year....and to think Gase hasn't thought of that ......yet

This level of intelligence might have something to do with inquiring minds coming here.....

Dafuq?

Pay attention.

You are a troll. You come here to bitch and do nothing else. You will be banned soon. Mark that down.

"bigballa2102 wrote:

well how many years have to go by before you get a feel for a qb he got 5 years? and goff and wents took bigger strides in less than 2 years with really less than RT did in 5. Wentz now has ajayi and alshon Jeffrey, goff has Watkins an gurley, we have landry DP and stills. Im just merely saying not based on RT play but the base that this season has been so awful and if they decide to go away from everyone and start a change that could hurt RT, say he played this year and excelled and Miami looked good and so did RT then his stock would be high, but now that Miami's name is really in the dumps and if we move on from him who do you think would pay him anything near what he's getting right now? that's my logic.

I guess my point is you can't really have it both ways. You can't say Tannehill should have shown us more, then want all of the team around him gone cause they are trash. Those two things are pretty connected. Believe me I get the frustration. It never should have taken this long to get an average line for him to play behind. What we know from 5 years is simply this, behind a below average Pass protecting offensive line Ryan is sligthly above average. Does that sliding scale move up when he has a better offensive line? I don't know, I just really really really want to know before we get rid of him.

Honestly, the 1st team that Ryan could go to that comes to mind is NE. Tannehill has already shown enough here, that would make him deadly in their offense. I wish I was kidding, but this seems like the exact type of move they would make. Brady can't play forever, and man would it hurt if we give them the next QB that lets them keep abusing us. Even if he doesn't go there, he will make pretty good money somewhere, most likely sign a prove it contract that only gives him 16 or 17 million year one, but 2 years in I guarantee he will be back into the low 20s again. Hell, he might even weigh his options and take less money to go somewhere that can actually protect him with a decent line.

"Phins_to_Win wrote:

I guess my point is you can't really have it both ways. You can't say Tannehill should have shown us more, then want all of the team around him gone cause they are trash. Those two things are pretty connected. Believe me I get the frustration. It never should have taken this long to get an average line for him to play behind. What we know from 5 years is simply this, behind a below average Pass protecting offensive line Ryan is sligthly above average. Does that sliding scale move up when he has a better offensive line? I don't know, I just really really really want to know before we get rid of him.

Honestly, the 1st team that Ryan could go to that comes to mind is NE. Tannehill has already shown enough here, that would make him deadly in their offense. I wish I was kidding, but this seems like the exact type of move they would make. Brady can't play forever, and man would it hurt if we give them the next QB that lets them keep abusing us. Even if he doesn't go there, he will make pretty good money somewhere, most likely sign a prove it contract that only gives him 16 or 17 million year one, but 2 years in I guarantee he will be back into the low 20s again. Hell, he might even weigh his options and take less money to go somewhere that can actually protect him with a decent line.

I am not a Tanny guy, so if he get's released I have few qualms as long as we are actively finding a replacement. I agree with your last paragraph though - he most likely will need a prove it type deal. Not only because of talent questions, but also the injury question. How well has that knee actually healed now with surgery, will it hold up a whole season.

As for decent lines ... there really are not that many out there. OL is a wasteland in the NFL, in large part because college doesn't develop NFL ready OL like they used to. The best OL out there typically are protecting a good signal caller already.

"texanphinatic wrote:

I am not a Tanny guy, so if he get's released I have few qualms as long as we are actively finding a replacement. I agree with your last paragraph though - he most likely will need a prove it type deal. Not only because of talent questions, but also the injury question. How well has that knee actually healed now with surgery, will it hold up a whole season.

As for decent lines ... there really are not that many out there. OL is a wasteland in the NFL, in large part because college doesn't develop NFL ready OL like they used to. The best OL out there typically are protecting a good signal caller already.

I completely agree on the O-line, but when we are below the average ranking, AND the average o-line is worse then it use to be... well that's just a whole bunch of crappy line play...

"bigballa2102 wrote:

and your point? YPA yard consist of yac yards so therefore an 8 yard bubble screen ran by landry makes his YPA go up lol

landry was top 5 in YAC yards last year and he didn't catch anything beyond 10 yards possibly a hand full. that's my point Ratings look good when the wr does everything.

This is actually completely factually incorrect. NFL1000 broke down screen pass attempts for every NFL quarterback last season.

Ryan Tannehill averaged 7.7 yards per pass attempt (389 attempts for 2,995 yards)
Ryan Tannehill averaged 4.53 yards per screen pass (53 screens for 240 yards)

If you take screen passes out of the equation, Tannehill averaged 8.2 yards per pass attempt. In 2016, those screen passes actually lowered his YPA by a full half yard.

To put it bluntly, you are not only wrong, but your argument is completely and utterly at odds with the facts. It is actually flat out impossible to be any more wrong than you are on this particular subject.

Also, the argument that Goff & Wentz have improved is also helped that both have better Olines this year, which allows them time to use the weapons - Miami, not so much

"cbrad wrote:

On the contrary. I think Tannehill's stock went up based on the season so far because the last time we had a good offense was with him as QB (technically, Moore did well at the end of last year too.. but his stock fell after this year).

I agree with this completely. He was having his best year and got better as the season progressed and he had more time to learn the Gases offense. I think in his situation you can look at last year more than other years because it was with a different coach and system. Other years he was playing for Philban who i think hurt him with what he made him do, and did not allow him to do. This is the same team with almost the same exact players looking like complete garbage %75 percent of the time with the QB being almost the only change.

"heylookatme wrote:

This is actually completely factually incorrect. NFL1000 broke down screen pass attempts for every NFL quarterback last season.

Ryan Tannehill averaged 7.7 yards per pass attempt (389 attempts for 2,995 yards)
Ryan Tannehill averaged 4.53 yards per screen pass (53 screens for 240 yards)

If you take screen passes out of the equation, Tannehill averaged 8.2 yards per pass attempt. In 2016, those screen passes actually lowered his YPA by a full half yard.

To put it bluntly, you are not only wrong, but your argument is completely and utterly at odds with the facts. It is actually flat out impossible to be any more wrong than you are on this particular subject.

Thanks for explaining this to him. I replied to him with a "sigh" because it seems every time I explain something to some people here I'm labeled as a "know it all". lol

"danmarino wrote:

Thanks for explaining this to him. I replied to him with a "sigh" because it seems every time I explain something to some people here I'm labeled as a "know it all". lol

To further that lesson.

The Top 10 QBs in YPA last year who also had a player in Top 10 in YAC:

Thill
Brady
Wilson
Brees

Other QBs that had a Top 10 YAC getter:
Big Rape
Smith
Palmer
Stafford
Eli
Carr

So yeah...outside of Rodgers all of the best QBs in the league had Top 10 YAC guys.

"Fin D wrote:

The problem is you haven't seen enough, so you cannot make a determination.

Some of us have seen enough. He is the real deal. This year should prove that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

oh so you have seen more than I have? good judge of opinion you have. When he's let go in 2 years and we squander 2 MORE YEARS "WAITING" for him to be the future the future will be the present. Your opinion is just that an opinion as well as mine, just proves more of who and what you are by saying you seen/know more than me.

"Phins_to_Win wrote:

I guess my point is you can't really have it both ways. You can't say Tannehill should have shown us more, then want all of the team around him gone cause they are trash. Those two things are pretty connected. Believe me I get the frustration. It never should have taken this long to get an average line for him to play behind. What we know from 5 years is simply this, behind a below average Pass protecting offensive line Ryan is sligthly above average. Does that sliding scale move up when he has a better offensive line? I don't know, I just really really really want to know before we get rid of him.

Honestly, the 1st team that Ryan could go to that comes to mind is NE. Tannehill has already shown enough here, that would make him deadly in their offense. I wish I was kidding, but this seems like the exact type of move they would make. Brady can't play forever, and man would it hurt if we give them the next QB that lets them keep abusing us. Even if he doesn't go there, he will make pretty good money somewhere, most likely sign a prove it contract that only gives him 16 or 17 million year one, but 2 years in I guarantee he will be back into the low 20s again. Hell, he might even weigh his options and take less money to go somewhere that can actually protect him with a decent line.

I don't think we should get rid of the team, I want the play caller and coaches gone, I think we have a pretty good team, but to make a splash in the draft or FA you have to let some guys go its just inevitable and think we are going to lose landry which sucks

I guarantee you RT is nowhere near Belicheats radar, I just thinking drafting a qb is the right move along with o-line help and if RT does pan out then we have trade bait of a backup. Like I said I have hoped I am wrong about RT but 5 years is plenty enough time and I just don't see it.

"Fin D wrote:

I don't understand this at all.

This season is showing just how good Thill is.

I don't know. The Oline is even worse. So I think he would have fared similar to Cutler.

"bigballa2102 wrote:

I don't think we should get rid of the team, I want the play caller and coaches gone, I think we have a pretty good team, but to make a splash in the draft or FA you have to let some guys go its just inevitable and think we are going to lose landry which sucks

I guarantee you RT is nowhere near Belicheats radar, I just thinking drafting a qb is the right move along with o-line help and if RT does pan out then we have trade bait of a backup. Like I said I have hoped I am wrong about RT but 5 years is plenty enough time and I just don't see it.

It took Brady 7-8 years to become elite and this was with cheating. It took Brees around the same amount of time. Rodgers sat on the bench for 3-4 seasons before he played. Hell, 3 out of P. Manning's first 5 seasons were horrible to average.

Claiming that a 5 yr QB who has (overall) put up league average stats and who has gone through 3 HC's, multiple OC changes, a churning of the roster, no o-line etc and who played like a top 10 QB in the league right before he was injured has had "plenty of time" is ridiculous.

"Rickysabeast wrote:

I don't know. The Oline is even worse. So I think he would have fared similar to Cutler.

Why do you think it's worse?

I believe both Ryan Tannehill and Adam Gase deserve next year to prove what they can do together in ideal circumstances.

A lot of you are too quick to forget how good Tannehill played last year. And how well Gase coached last year. It sucks seeing these games play out the way they have but when a team loses it's starting QB a few weeks before the season starts, are these outcomes really that surprising?

Gase did his best to mitigate the loss, but even the best effort at a position this crucial wasn't good enough. A lot of us tried fooling ourselves into thinking Cutler would be as good or even better. That was a huge disservice to expectations this year.

You want the GODS honest truth? yes this year hurt him going forward. This team is going to have to rebuild yet again. That means new players at some key positions that means Ryan will have to relearn timing and possibly a modified system. It means that he will probably have new offensive lineman or should I say lack of a good offensive line and I believe it will affect his game play. If the line is suspect ryan will be running for his life scared he will be injured again.

Ryans stock has gone up simply because the caliber of his replacements has been so low. I don't think ryan will get better than he has in the past. I think Miami is going to have to fix the offensive line problem before we gain any traction on offense.

"heylookatme wrote:

This is actually completely factually incorrect. NFL1000 broke down screen pass attempts for every NFL quarterback last season.

Ryan Tannehill averaged 7.7 yards per pass attempt (389 attempts for 2,995 yards)
Ryan Tannehill averaged 4.53 yards per screen pass (53 screens for 240 yards)

If you take screen passes out of the equation, Tannehill averaged 8.2 yards per pass attempt. In 2016, those screen passes actually lowered his YPA by a full half yard.

To put it bluntly, you are not only wrong, but your argument is completely and utterly at odds with the facts. It is actually flat out impossible to be any more wrong than you are on this particular subject.

Another brainiac, here who knows everything and everyone knows nothing, you do understand his time in the air was literally 28th in the league or lower and was under 4 yards I think its like 3.6 or 3.7 or something, so therefor a 3 yard slant, which you are right is not a screen which is ran for 8 yards says what? whether its a screen or a 3 yard slant his total yardage comes from YAC not in the air, if I remember correctly even Matt Moore had a higher yard in air than RT in the same offense. I know someone will bring up brady and how his yards in the air is like 4.3 or something, but in bradys offense that's what they live off and is non comparable to rt and Miami.

I have never said RT cant complete passes down the field but what I am saying is a all the praise for a qb who shows no signs of being able to throw the ball all over the yard down the field, by comparing rating etc. its easy to complete short passes look at cutler he has a high rating and we suck balls. do you understand? I do think if RT played this yr we would be doing better just based off team moral because cutler sucks the life out of every thing he touches, im merely arguing that RT is some off the wall great qb by rating when all he does is complete short passes its not hard. Hard to argue with you RT supporters until we finally release and the truth comes out I guess. since he is 84 marino to you guys instead of looking at how he succeeds and how he plays and how different he is from the top 10 qbs in the league. he is nowhere near any of them, but if your fine looking at a stat sheets and playing the game from there by all means that's your choice, I however watch a lot of football and he is nowhere near without even naming brady or Rodgers because no one is on that level besides them, breese, Wilson, big ben, Stafford, wentz, cam, rivers, carr, flacco i would trade RT right now for anyone of these guys and if you say you wouldn't then that's your choice and your clouded, and even the top rookies and second yr men Watson, goff and wentz all look better than RT in 1-2 years, it took RT 5 yrs to have a good year, I guess I have hard time seeing where I am wrong but please pull up some stats that prove your right or something but everyone loves stats.

"MonstBlitz wrote:

I believe both Ryan Tannehill and Adam Gase deserve next year to prove what they can do together in ideal circumstances.

A lot of you are too quick to forget how good Tannehill played last year. And how well Gase coached last year. It sucks seeing these games play out the way they have but when a team loses it's starting QB a few weeks before the season starts, are these outcomes really that surprising?

Gase did his best to mitigate the loss, but even the best effort at a position this crucial wasn't good enough. A lot of us tried fooling ourselves into thinking Cutler would be as good or even better. That was a huge disservice to expectations this year.

Im all for that if they make a splash in o-line and draft a qb and gase stops calling plays and gets a coordinator then im all for it, but gase needs to stop these play calls.

"Dorfdad wrote:

You want the GODS honest truth? yes this year hurt him going forward. This team is going to have to rebuild yet again. That means new players at some key positions that means Ryan will have to relearn timing and possibly a modified system. It means that he will probably have new offensive lineman or should I say lack of a good offensive line and I believe it will affect his game play. If the line is suspect ryan will be running for his life scared he will be injured again.

Ryans stock has gone up simply because the caliber of his replacements has been so low. I don't think ryan will get better than he has in the past. I think Miami is going to have to fix the offensive line problem before we gain any traction on offense.

thank you that's where I kinda was going with this and its been skewed all over, I think the over haul is going to hurt him and if they decide to overhaul everything does it hurt his chances to prove in a system he knows instead of going somewhere and getting swallowed up in a bad system.

"Fin D wrote:

To further that lesson.

The Top 10 QBs in YPA last year who also had a player in Top 10 in YAC:

Thill
Brady
Wilson
Brees

Other QBs that had a Top 10 YAC getter:
Big Rape
Smith
Palmer
Stafford
Eli
Carr

So yeah...outside of Rodgers all of the best QBs in the league had Top 10 YAC guys.

well seeing how all of em but RT has won a superbowl I guess we are going in the right direction I guess an mvp and superbowl is in RT future.

"danmarino wrote:

Why do you think it's worse?

I think the line is worse because we couldn't run, but the line seems pretty much the same in the passsing game, the problem is play calls and cutler.