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Deshaun Watson

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Rick 1966, Jan 7, 2021.

  1. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    Watsons contract isnt THAT bad because the Texans pay his signing bonus. It's still a heap of cash but we would only be taking on his base salary.
     
  2. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    He also throws like a 5 year old girl. I dont see how anyone could watch Tua and not see a giant sack of turd as a QB.
     
  3. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I would agree he's more escapable than Tannehill was, but he's not elite like a Wilson or Mahomes.

    Also, Tua SHOULD have had a better rookie year, he came out a more complete QB than Tannehill. Tannehill was incredibly raw.
     
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  4. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I would argue that Tannehill was pretty similar as a rookie to Tua. Both threw basically one td a game, similar comp %, while Tua has an advantage in rating, but that could also be a result of Tannehill playing 8 years ago.

    That isn't really all that promising, given that Tannehill was an incredibly raw QB, and Tua was supposed to be much more NFL ready.
     
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  5. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed but don’t forget the injury and other circumstances. If we don’t see more Arizona Games next year, then we‘ve probably got to move on.
     
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  6. DOLFANMIKE

    DOLFANMIKE FOOTBALL COACH 32 YEARS Luxury Box

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    I'll be surprised if the Texans get a crazy good deal for Watson. I think it will be closer to a 1 and a 2 maybe not in the same draft.
     
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  7. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    I don't see how they can accept that deal. If that's the best they are offered, you keep Watson and play chicken. You cannot trade a top 5 QB who is just starting his prime for less than a CB, less than a Safety, less than Smokin Jay Cutler.
     
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  8. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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    I think the likeliest outcomes is that the Texans WILL keep Watson. The only way he can really force them to trade him is if he retires.
     
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  9. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well, he can't just sit out next season because the bargaining agreement makes that cost-prohibitive even for a contract like his. So he could stay in Houston or retire...those are the only two "real options" once the team gets to training camp and the regular season.

    However, if Houston gets to mini-camps and Watson still is not responsive, Houston is in mega-trouble. By that time, they didn't pick anyone in the first two rounds of the draft. Or maybe they traded JJ Watt for a 1st, and maybe he reports to the new team instead of retiring. Even so, there's no way they can not have this settled BEFORE the draft...it's the only possible time they can somewhat cash-in on their mistakes without being the laughing stock of the league for years to come.

    They already made an EPIC mistake in disregarding Watson once; they won't do it twice if they hope to get any trade value from him. There's no way they give him the opportunity to say "I retire" several months from now. It's the worst possible outcome for everyone involved. They HAVE TO trade him if they can't work this out by the draft...there's no other option.

    In business, it is vital to control the narrative of your company's future. Right now, Watson has full control over that for Houston and I guarantee you that it's driving them bananas. No free agent will sign there. The owner looks like an absolute fool. Nobody is happy and they're taking mega-pressure within their own circles to fix this. So they can't wait this out, but they can't appear desperate either. Mainly, they need Watson on their side no matter what the outcome is, so that's the priority they're trying to figure out while absolutely torturing each other with playing the blame-game, etc.

    It's absolute hell in Houston for everyone involved...except Watson. He's probably enjoying a beer at a beach somewhere, waiting for Houston to start seriously kissing his butt. That's why he's staying quiet- he has all the power and speaking out vastly limits his options. Very smart guy that's getting great advice; he's playing "the game" perfectly by doing absolutely nothing.
     
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  10. Hooligan

    Hooligan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I kinda feel bad for Tua. He must feel like the red headed kid at a family reunion.
     
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  11. Pennphinphan

    Pennphinphan AKA Pennphinfan but I forgot my login

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    https://www.rotoworld.com/football/nfl/player-news/headlines/9926566

    "The Jets are Deshaun Watson's preferred trade partner.
    The rightfully disgruntled franchise QB prefers the Jets "because they hired Robert Saleh to be their coach and Watson values Saleh so much he wanted the Texans to interview him for their vacant head coach job,"

    Dolphins are apparently his #2.
     
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  12. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    I’d have to question his judgment if he likes NYJ over Miami. They are a long ways away and we are much closer.
     
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  13. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If that's true, then we almost have to pursue him to prevent the enemy from landing him. Definitely changes things a litle bit.
     
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  14. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    Was thinking the same thing, would be like the 90‘s just worse. Facing Josh Allen and Deshaun Watson twice a year would be no bueno unless Tua explodes and becomes something like Brees is/was and even then the AFC East would be a really tough division... We finally have things going for us again and if Watson joins the Jets, things would get a lot harder and I was happy they didn’t get Lawrence. Never thought the Tunsil trade would have an impact like that... :)
     
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  15. Fishhead

    Fishhead Active Member

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    That report from Rotoworld is quoting Armando Salguero, so take that for what it’s worth as far as knowing the mind of Deshaun Watson.
     
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  16. The Guy

    The Guy Well-Known Member

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    If he wants to be traded to a team with an unproven head coach over being traded to one with Brian Flores and his early track record, he's an idiot. That would actually make me sour a bit on wanting to acquire him.
     
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  17. Pennphinphan

    Pennphinphan AKA Pennphinfan but I forgot my login

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    Exactly. This could be the Texans trying to drum up interest, could be Watsons agents trying to get Miami to try harder, could be made up by mando to get clicks. could be anything. The ol off-season rumor mill
     
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  18. Fishhead

    Fishhead Active Member

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    I can’t wait for free agency and the draft so some actual things can happen instead of the endless speculation
     
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  19. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    I totally disagree here. I think Tua showed terrible pocket presence. Imo, it was worse than Tanne even in Tanne's earlier years. Tua has no feel for the pocket. He got sacked 6 times in a game and the last game was pretty bad. Several of those sacks could have been avoided if he had the ability to take those few steps up in the pocket or side to side, but he would just get scared or overwhelmed and just sit there and take the sack. Now, maybe the shortened off season and coming off of that injury had something to do with it, but it was pretty worrisome.
     
  20. Mafioso

    Mafioso Air Force's #1 Phin Fan

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    I was thinking something similar. If you want to go to Miami and they are content with Tua...may be a way to get them interested by making them think you want to go to the jets. All if fair in love and NFL trade/draft deception lol.
     
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  21. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    Then we have to agree to disagree, cause pocket presence and escapebilty are Tannehills biggest weaknesses imo. I never saw him move around like Tua did in the Arizona game for instance...
     
  22. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think most people forget that Burrow and Herbert played full seasons in college, then prepped for the NFL through offseason work and combines. Meanwhile, Tua played half a season then learned how to walk again from a major injury. So talking about "pocket presence" and mobility here seems pretty silly- of course he played conservative. He was ordered to play conservative.

    If that recent history doesn't mean anything to you, then maybe consider Tannehill's recent history as a Dolphin. He looked horrible coming back from that leg injury and some were convinced he was "washed up". Yet he had the top QB rating in the league the following year on a different team. Not trying to directly compare Tua to Tannehill's abilities here, but folks need to realize that Tua has several factors working against him year 1-

    - Coming off major injury
    - NFL rookie w/ no training camp
    - Conservative play calling
    - Young, inexperienced line
    - Receivers not getting separation
    - Focused on quick releases to avoid hits

    I've said this many times, I wasn't a huge Tua fan when he came out of college. But the kid needs time to fully heal up and adjust to NFL speed. It's way too early for all this "bust talk" after starting 9 games. Right now, Tua simply needs time to develop his game and get comfortable making the proper reads. He's clearly not there yet and that's okay.
     
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  23. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    I think that would explain the early part of the season but his play down the stretch, after several months of practice and playing, and he was benched because he couldn’t move our offense. We then watched Fitz come in and ignite the offense.

    I’m sure Tua will improve with more experience and a better supporting cast. I honestly don’t care that much about his stats as a rookie either. My concern is there really isn’t anything that’s special about the way he throws, moves or runs. To me, he seems like a guy who could be a really good game manager. The problem in today’s NFL is it’s hard to win a super bowl with that type of QB.

    Being someone who didn’t want him before the draft and definitely someone who wanted Herbert over him, nothing was changed to overcome my skepticism. For the sake of our franchise, I hope I’m wrong and he becomes the next Drew Brees but I highly doubt it.
     
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  24. cbrad

    cbrad .

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    There's been some serious movement in the Vegas odds last 24 hours, specifically in terms of whether Watson stays in Houston or not. Up until today the odds of Watson staying in Houston were WELL above 50% the entire time. In other words, the most likely outcome was always thought to be he stays in Houston.

    I look at today's odds and this is the first time I'm seeing it's less than 50% likely he stays in Houston:
    https://www.sportsbook.ag/sbk/sportsbook4/nfl-betting/deshaun-watson---next-team.sbk

    Moneyline he stays in Houston is now +150 which translates to 40% probability. The Jets are now at +225 which is 30.77% and the Dolphins are at +400 which is 20%. So Vegas thinks it's more likely than not he will be traded, which is really amazing: an elite QB in his prime being traded. The epitome of dysfunction for the Texans.

    btw.. regarding the Jets being the frontrunner if he leaves Houston, I know people have pointed out Watson has a no trade clause and he would likely veto a trade to the Jets. That's how WE might think, but not necessarily how Watson thinks.

    Look at what Watson has been saying and doing and at least to me it's looking more and more like a money grab. Why the Jets? Because it's NYC! And that means MUCH greater opportunity for endorsements and marketing than he currently has. For all his talent he is NOT being marketed as one of the faces of the NFL, like Rodgers or Mahomes. My personal opinion is that this is what it's about: his ego, and the opportunity to make lots more money.

    Also worth noting that Watson's agent is the same one Jalen Ramsey had: Mulugheta, who is one of the top agents in the NFL. Ramsey was also one of those rare elite talents in his prime that was traded after a spat with the HC.. to LA, which is another big media center. In Ramsey's case the Jags got 2 1sts and a 4th which is impressive for a CB. The "trade me because I'm not happy" playbook is looking somewhat similar IMO.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2021
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  25. DOLFANMIKE

    DOLFANMIKE FOOTBALL COACH 32 YEARS Luxury Box

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    You can't keep a guy that doesn't want to play for you. Complete cancer situation to team chemistry
     
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  26. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    That place seems to be a dumpster fire anyway. But either he suits up and plays - and he has too much respect for his teammates not to play at a high level - or he sits out and stays away from the team.

    You just can't give up on a QB as good as Watson is. If he is determined to be out, you need to get a return package that at least gives a hint of credibility to sell to fans. Some of this stuff like just a single first rounder ... nope.
     
  27. DOLFANMIKE

    DOLFANMIKE FOOTBALL COACH 32 YEARS Luxury Box

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    Don't you think how he handles this situation impacts his value? I do.
     
  28. Finatik

    Finatik Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    They need to solve this before free agency begins IMO. Due to salary cap projected to go down 15%, how his contract fits into another teams cap situation would need to be looked at. I also agree that how he handles this will dictate his worth. Saying something to the effect "I will not play another game for Houston" would have a huge impact on his trade value. Houston has no leverage. If he goes to all the work outs and just does a "jog" through or say he's hurt so he can't practice, they will be forces to continue to pay him but couldn't let that go on for any period of time. With a brand new coach coming in, there's no way he could let that foster. Not saying he would do any of this but if he's just done, he can force their hand and the compensation just wouldn't be the same.
     
  29. ASUFinFan

    ASUFinFan Uh huh

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    I have not posted in 10 plus years. But I signed in to respond to this. Did you not see the 55+ yard bomb Tua threw to Grant that he dropped against Cincinnati?
     
  30. Rick 1966

    Rick 1966 Professional Hipshooter

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  31. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    He's a known moron who doesn't really know what he's talking about. He should just switch to the Chargers because Herbert's jockstrap is permanently affixed to his face.
     
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  32. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    Normally, you'd be right, considering that Houston is a so much of a joke that even J.J. Watt, of all people, wants out, I don't think there'll be many a GM or coach that'd hold his attitude towards the organization against him.
     
  33. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Also, don't forget outside of Jacksonville who's in the drivers seat of the draft to take whichever QB they want Miami and the Jets are both pretty loaded with early draft picks. So if you're his agent and/or the team trying to swing him a deal out of there you've got to keep using Miami and the Jets against each other because they're likely the only two teams with the ammo to pay and likely most willing to want to take a shot at landing Watson to get the QB position right. I'm sure if the Watson thing wasn't on going right now and we were fully into the offseason we'd be seeing our name floated with almost any player available for trade due to the number of picks we have. Other teams will take it somewhat seriously because we do indeed have the ammo to make it happen.
     
  34. DOLFANMIKE

    DOLFANMIKE FOOTBALL COACH 32 YEARS Luxury Box

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    If we were talking about upgrading at QB and trading picks players, I'd much rather move up two picks and grab QB Trevor Lawrence. Of course I don't expect it to happen, but that's the QB upgrade I've been interested in for two years. I remember being told last year we wouldn't be anywhere near him, but thanks to the excellent Texans trade, here we sit two picks away from him.
     
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  35. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Jacksonville has no incentive to move though. The only hope for a Lawrence trade was if a team like Cinci landed the top pick. There is 0 incentive for a QB needy team to pass on 5 affordable years of the best prospect in a decade.
     
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  36. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    Bill Barnwell of ESPN Insider released a number of trade possibilities. He ranked Miami as the #1 trade destination, and had us completing a 3 way trade with Houston and Chicago:

    Dolphins send: Third, 36th and 113th picks in 2021, 2022 first-round pick, 2023 fourth-round pick (to Texans), QB Tua Tagovailoa (to Bears)

    Texans send: QB Deshaun Watson, G Senio Kelemete, 2022 third-round pick (to Dolphins)

    Bears send: 20th overall pick in 2021 (to Texans), 2022 fourth-round pick, 2023 conditional pick (to Dolphins)

    Personally, I would jump all over that deal.
     
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  37. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    That’s a hard pass for me. I’m not going to leverage our future over one player. He’s not going to lead us to a super bowl with no run game, no good receivers that can stay healthy and a below average OL.
     
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  38. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    I mean, we won 10 games this season, you don't think Watson alone elevates the offense significantly? But in that scenario, we're only giving up one first this year? I'd do it.
     
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  39. OwesOwn614

    OwesOwn614 Well-Known Member

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    I'm with you. If QB was THE missing piece, then I'd pull that trigger. But we saw from the last game how far we are from being a sustainably good team. I think we'd be much better with the assets than we would with Watson (and I absolutely love Watson). I hope we're not considering anything like that. I'd prefer we trade out of #3 and use the picks we get along with a couple other assets in a trade. But if that was possible, our trade partner could just acquire Watson for themselves if they need a QB.
     
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