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Deshaun Watson

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Rick 1966, Jan 7, 2021.

  1. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    I can't wait for the offers on this forum.

    "Tua sucks but we can probably trade him for Watson and our 18th pick and keep the #3 pick."
     
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  2. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    That would be delusional... But hey it’s Houston... :)
     
  3. canesz06

    canesz06 Well-Known Member

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    He does suck but maybe Houston is stupid enough to go for it. God knows how many times the dolphins made stupid trades
     
  4. The Guy

    The Guy Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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  5. PhinFan1968

    PhinFan1968 To 2020, and BEYOND! Club Member

    I don't believe Tua is a lost cause/bust/crap QB, whatever you want to call it. I believe we'll see a much improved player in 2021, you can't count this kid out until he has removed all doubt, IMO, and he hasn't done that yet from what I've seen.

    HOWEVER...

    Would love to see a trade for Watson, as long as it isn't giving up too much. He only has one issue I can see...takes too many sacks. Even then, he's a baller.

    I believe we'd be fine with either, but in better shape earlier with Watson.
     
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  6. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    QB's that run around a lot trying to make things happen tend to have high sack percentages. It tends to come with the territory. QB's with the lowest sack percentages are pocket QB's with fast release times: Manning, Marino, Brees, Brady, etc.

    But guys like Wilson, Young, Rodgers, Watson all have much higher sack percentages. The one major exception to this is Mahomes who somehow has a really low sack percentage but is good at extending plays. Also worth pointing out Watson has a really bad OL in addition to the nature of his play.

    Anyway, otherwise I agree with your post. I like Tua and see no reason to move on from him UNLESS precisely the situation we're discussing comes up: trading for a proven elite QB in his prime. Like how often does that happen??
     
  7. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I agree, we would only be a few pieces away and honestly, they're not huge pieces anymore when you have a QB of that caliber. I'm certainly not counting on it but for January, it is fun to dream! We'd have our quarterback for the next decade.
     
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  8. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yeah, I don't think anyone is implying that Tua can't/won't get there, but the odds of him being better overall than Watson are pretty darn slim. Heck, the odds of anyone being better than Watson are super-slim. I am content with Tua but if we can make this move somehow, it would make complete sense.
     
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  9. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE make it happen.
     
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  10. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's the thing- it NEVER happens! Which is why everyone's thinking on our starting 2021 QB has done a complete 180. I suddenly find myself completely buying into the "perennial playoff contender" hype.
     
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  11. muskrat21

    muskrat21 Well-Known Member

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    do you want 1000 dollars in hand? or a lotto ticket for 2000?
     
  12. muskrat21

    muskrat21 Well-Known Member

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    did everyone forget what DVP did with fitzy? watson is better that fitzy, giesci DVP FA WR and draft 2 in the 3rd and/or later rounds and we still have weapons....


    also this isn't really a matter of tua sucks we want watson. this is a matter of watson is a guaranteed top3 qb in the NFL tua is a top ??? qb in the NFL. there are probably 5 teams that can afford to ignore that watson wants out. KC GB BUF SEA BAL. everyone else would be smart to make plans to get Watson.
     
  13. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    The first thing to do when dreaming up trade scenarios is to think "am I really happy with X scenario" and if you are, it's probably unrealistic. The second thing is when adding players, those with high salaries or who you feel fine losing aren't adding any value to any hypothetical scenario.

    If you are aren't uncomfortable about the package, you aren't even sniffing Watson. As Muskrat notes, there are probably 20+ teams who have perked up and are probably putting together options and surreptitiously making calls. Some of them may not have the draft resources we do, but many are more complete teams that may be more desperate.

    "I don't feel great about Tua, so let's let him headline a package that includes the #3 and a second rounder and maybe next years first" isn't getting anywhere.
     
  14. cbrad

    cbrad . Club Member

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    We're just having a ball thinking about the possibility. Nothing more. It's highly unlikely any team would part with an elite QB in his prime. Like who does that? But it's Houston right?

    Realistic is we are sticking with Tua and draft a bunch of offensive weapons to see if he can prove he's not a bust next year.
     
  15. Fireland

    Fireland Member

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    He could kill their leverage by trying to force his way to a specific team or teams too though
     
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  16. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    If Watson wants out, he will have limited control. He's in no position to single out teams and limit the Texans options - that just encourages them to call it a bluff. If the goal is just out, anything beyond that actually hurts him.

    I'm just saying generally fans tend to be homers who overvalue their own players and look to create scenarios that leave themselves feeling fulfilled. I'm a huge fan/follower of baseball news and rumors, and this is super common there: "Let's trade a handful of low level prospects and a crappy bench player for team X's star!"

    The Houston situation is really weird, in no small part because of this X factor in Jack Easterby. I doubt a trade really happens, but if it does, expect it be painful. You just don't aquire a top 5 QB at the start of their prime, let alone for a "reasonable" deal.
     
  17. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    At the end of the day Watson is going to stay... it would be absolutely ridiculous for Houston to entertain the idea ..

    I think Watson also sees a very crowded division - one that has Indianapolis, Titans and now the Jaguars with Trevor Lawrence on deck..

    all he asked for from Houston is to be part of those discussions, he is their best player by far and he has an idea of what identity he needs to stay competitive with one of the toughest divisions in the game.

    The Mcnairs have no idea who to hire. They paid about $150,000.00 to do a research study on who are the best candidates for the job, got two guys that Deshaun liked out of that research, and then hired someone from New England that wasnt even on the list... Deshaun knows already that the owners know zilch about football so what confident should he have in their hire.
     
  18. Fireland

    Fireland Member

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    He has a no trade clause so he could absolutely play hardball if he wanted to and I don't see how he wouldn't if it came to that.
     
  19. mooseguts

    mooseguts Well-Known Member

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    He has a no trade clause so he's in prime position to single teams out and limit the Texans options.
     
  20. Deus ex dolphin

    Deus ex dolphin Well-Known Member

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    It would take #3, #18, #50, a 2022 second rounder, and Tua to get this done. Houston could trade Tua away for another pick or two and grab a QB at #3 if they prefer. They need picks and cap space to rebuild that team and this deal would do it.

    Miami could still get grab a couple good players from the draft with our remaining picks, but Watson could work with what we have and make them better thanks to his talent. It's a heavy price to play, but we'd be looking at 10 years of great QB play.
     
  21. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    Watson could depress his trade value if he really wants to be in Miami and mean that the Dolphins could get him for less than one would normally expect. I've not really paid a lot of attention to Watson's career, it sounds like he's a great QB. In general though, the cap space issues that come with an established star QB can make life difficult, and it always just feels to me like teams should draft their franchise QB's (or pick them up very early). The idea of picking up someone else's 'star' QB and having a short run with them never sat well with me.

    I don't know that Tua is the answer, but ideally, we'd find a young QB who would be our franchise leader for years to come, whoever that is. I wouldn't want to pick up a QB for a few years and then move on.
     
  22. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you, but Watson is the exception to the rule imo., it's not like he's old and would be here for a few years. I'm fine with Tua, but if you could get Watson for Tua + the Nr. 3 pick and maybe even a little more, I think you have to do it.
     
  23. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You're missing a few factors here.

    1) Watson has a "no trade" clause, which means he has final say on whether or not he's traded and where he'd go. He is absolutely in a position to single out teams and limit the Texans options.

    2) Watson has said that he wouldn't mind being traded to Miami two days ago. To my knowledge, he has not publicly endorsed any other team.

    3) For this to work for Houston, they'd need multiple picks or a prospect QB to groom. The Jets and Dolphins fit that bill with multiple 1st rounders- but they're two franchises that are headed in different directions. Not sure Watson would want to go to NY since they have the same disfunction in the front office as Houston.

    4) Nobody is saying that this will be a "done deal"...Watson has not publicly demanded a trade and he'll probably stay in Houston. But if he does want out, Miami may actually be his #1 destination due to Flores/Grier and that way our team has played recently. Likewise, Houston would probably consider Miami due to Tua and our #3 pick....Miami makes sense from a value perspective.
     
  24. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Watson is entering year 5 in the NFL in 2021, which means he certainly could be a long-term answer at QB. The only way we'd consider him is if we were looking at him as a 10+ year starter.
     
  25. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm thinking if there's any actual truth and seriousness to these rumors It's going to take Tua, 1-3, and at least one of our 2nd's to get them to even listen. Maybe even 1-18 too.

    I love that Watson is proven over potential and it's something that would make me consider this deal; but we've done this rebuild the right way by unloading talent to acquire draft capital to rebuild. It'd be really hard to part with all those draft picks. If we were farther ahead and only a QB away; then absolutely; it's an easier choice. Right now though, as much as I'd love Watson I can't justify giving up all those draft opportunities to get Tua weapons he (and even Watson) needs.
     
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  26. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    I’m with you. I’d love to get him but wouldn’t pay what they’ll probably want. Hopefully he forces their hand to accept a less than fair market deal. I’d trade Tua, #3 and a 2nd this year or next. Not willing to give up multiple 1sts plus tua and 2nd’s.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2021 at 11:16 AM
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  27. ExplosionsInDaSky

    ExplosionsInDaSky Well-Known Member

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    Deshaun Watson happens to be my very favorite player in the league at the moment, so I hope that this can happen. If he is truly available and we have a shot at getting him, I don't think we should hesitate. I definitely think Tua is going to have a decent career, I think he can improve and become everything we want him to be, but this may very well be an opportunity that will not arise again for us. We have struggled time and time again trying to build this team with the "right" quarterback. The fact that Tua left such a bad taste in everyones mouth after the last game of the season makes this even more intriguing than it would have been had he finished strong. In fact, we wouldn't even be talking about Watson had Tua done what he was supposed to do and gotten us to the playoffs. Put me on board for Deshaun Watson as the long as the price isn't our very own soul. I'd be more than happy to give them back their pick along with Tua for starters. We could also part with a second round pick too. After that, it's going to get a little dicey because regardless of whether or not Tua is the answer for us, we will an opportunity to build a solid team everywhere else at every position due to our plethora of draft picks. I'm not willing to pull a Mike Ditka and give Houston all of our picks, but if I were a GM i'd maybe possibly part with a future pick or picks as well. It'll be interesting to see where this goes. If Watson forces their hand, his value may go down a bit.
     
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  28. M1NDCRlME

    M1NDCRlME Fear The Spear

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    Not to mention the cap hit. If he’s willing to restructure then see what can be worked out, but don’t give up the farm. If not, walk away. I don’t want this team getting hamstrung because of a bad max contract. We seen that movie too many times and its never ended well.
     
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  29. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The cap hit in 2021 would be around $10M (it's actually $15M, but 5M of that stays on Texans books since it's a bonus), then we'd take hits between $25-33M in 2022 and 2023. Meanwhile, the Texans would take the full $25M hit for Wason's current/future bonuses this season...which works if they're going into full rebuild mode and potentially unloading Watt, Tunsil, etc.

    So we'd have all next year to restructure....but those numbers are fair for a top NFL quarterback.
     
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  30. MrPhinn

    MrPhinn Member

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    How embarrassing for Tua. Even more for the Dolphin organization to possibly admit Tua was a bad pick.
     
  31. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Except that Miami ownership has already stated that there is "nothing to see here", they are not interested in Watson.
     
  32. JJ_79

    JJ_79 Well-Known Member

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    How so? Elaborate...
     
  33. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    So if you're Houston and you like Tua, I thi k that gives us a leg up on any team. It's not often you can get a QB prospect you like AND the #3 overall pick for a disgruntled player. If he does indeed get out.

    It would obviously take more than that, but as a foundation I dont see how anyone else compares IF Houston likes Tua.

    Any other deal they are just hoping to take a QB they like with the pick they acquire. With us you're accomplishing two tasks at once.
     
  34. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    They dont even have a head coach yet.. besides Bieniemy looks like the front runner and Deshaun Watson’s skills are much closer to Mahomes than Tua.

    Bieniemy is on Watsons wish list and the Texans front office wont **** that up like they did the GM search.
     
  35. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    It's doubtful that they "like" Tua - they likely have barely scouted him, and may actually prefer QBs from this class, whom they probably have scouted more. There was no reason for a team picking in the 20s with a top 5 QB just starting his prime to waste their time on QBs going in the top 5 in last years draft.

    I've been hearing that the theorized starting point from a value standpoint is 3 first rounders and a player, or 2 with 1-2 players of high level starter caliber. Then several mid/low for good measure. For instance, I was seeing a Carolina writer lay out scenarios and one of them had McCaffrey involved along with their first this year and next and several other mid/late picks - that's the kind of talent you may be required to give up. Tua, either the 3 OR 18 and maybe a second rounder is getting the dial tone.

    Anyway, seems like the Texans may be about to hire Jim Caldwell, which imo would probably placate Watson. He's a stabilizing and well-regarded presence and a minority hire.
     
  36. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I don’t like this idea at all. Personally I think Watson is reckless but with that comes the adage, the higher the risk, the higher the reward. History has just shown that “big players” that come to Miami via FA or trade tend to be busts in the end.

    If I WERE. To entertain it though, I would offer them our #18 pick, period. We need draft capital to build for the long term. Trade the #18 pick then hold our breath and trade back with the #3 pick for additional picks. That’s the ONLY way I’m doing this. Otherwise Houston can go pound sand. I’ll build this team with great young talent.

    Tagovailoa will either have to work out or he’s gone however, if we were to get Smith and Harris in the draft, I think we would be just fine
     
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  37. M1NDCRlME

    M1NDCRlME Fear The Spear

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    So be it. Watson can enjoy his time in Houston. He'll be another big stats guy that never gets a ring.
     
  38. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    The 18th pick for a top 5 QB in the league whose 24?

    That's incomprehensibly low, there's no point in even offering that - you'd be seen as a joke in the league.
     
  39. KeyFin

    KeyFin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    - Tannehill went to the Titans for a 2nd round selection, then led the league in passer rating the following season.
    - Jimmy G went to San Fran on a 2nd rounder and put together one heck of a win streak until getting injured.
    - Brady went to Tampa as a free agent without compensation for NE.

    That was just the last few seasons, and the only difference here is that Waston is young and proven. However, the Texans are in cap hell with no early draft picks and a QB that can control where he gets traded to. I'd personally start our offer at the #3 overall pick OR our late 1st and early 2nd. Let Houston negotiate for Tua.

    What could hurt us is the Jets or another team offering to vastly overpay, but the beauty is that Watson can veto any trade. So if he says that he wants to go to Miami, that's Houston's only legit option. And the saving grace is Tua or Fields- we're one of the few teams in the NFL that can give Houston fans some instant hope.
     
  40. TheHighExhaulted

    TheHighExhaulted Well-Known Member

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    Tua sucks but he will be the saving grace in Houston!

    - Dolphins fans
     
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