Amazing. I just thought it was worth noting, because I think most people don't know that. Jaguar fans here in Jacksonville are livid. It's talked about just every second here on Sports Talk radio. Fans are pissed at the Jaguars front office, they're pissed at Derrick Harvey, it's not a good situation. Also, it's a situation that doesn't seem to be getting clearer anytime soon. Apparently the Jags are offering 16.9M gauranteed, which is more than last year's #9 pick, more than the #10 pick this year, but not enough still. What happens if Derrick Harvey never signs? Do his rights still belong to the Jaguars? Or is he eligible to be signed/drafted by any other team in 2009? Very interesting.
Are you serious?! I thought he was signed a long time ago. No wonder I never heard his name in the last game.
If he never signs, he re-enters the draft pool for the 2009 draft. There has to be something going on here that doesn't meet the eye. Even Sedrick Ellis got into camp relatively quickly. Harvey has missed all of camp. Something's going on. Wonder what Reggie Nelson thinks.
Lately the Jacksonville media has done a pretty good job of diverting attention a bit to the Florida Gators--because this is a Gator Haven (sucks). But, anything Jaguars, which is a lot, is always started with Harvey. It's almost like a perfect segue--Gators, Derrick Harvey, Jaguars. The Jacksonville media has started to pin Derrick Harvey as the "bad, wrong guy" in this situation. Whether that is true or not, I don't know. However, the hook is and always has been the amount of gauranteed money being asked by Derrick Harvey. The Jaguars aren't offering the percentage mark-up from year to year that Harvey and his agent expect. The Jaguars are offering what they feel is fair 16.9M, which is more than last year's #9 pick, Ted Ginn, and more than the #10 pick this year.
When teams play well, fans and the media usually side with the organization. It's hard to say who's in the wrong here. Could very well be both of them. ... I take it back. The problem is Harvey's agent. I dug this little gem up: "Somewhere between 10 percent and 75 percent is reasonable?" lolwut?
If Harvey was smart, he would have looked at Russell's situation in Oakland last year and been in camp, regardless of a contract. JMO.
Well I know it's not as difficult for a DE coming in and making an impact as a QB--i.e. doesn't have to learn a whole lot of plays etc. However, I think there is some evidence that 1st year DE's really don't make go nuts, an example is Mario Williams. It's usually that 2nd year when they come into their own. I don't think the missed time will hurt that much, but for a guy who was the reason for not trading for Jason Taylor to not be there, hurts. Not to mention they've had major injuries at the DE position and it was a relatively weak point for them last year (the pass rush).
For the love of God the NFL needs to institute a rookie pay structure, this is no way for a rookie to behave or for the league to develop stars and/or good relations with cities. It would also garuntee that no player gets an unreasonable lowball offer, though the overall money would likely go down, I dont see much room to complain. How many of us can haggle over those last few million for playing a game? It still boggles me why JVille didnt go after JT more, stupid move on their part.
If the rookie salary cap idea gains momentum for 2010, I would guess that the odds of having a similar impasse in 2009 would be slim to none.
This is why the Jaguars are morons. Not only do they take Groves who we wanted to trade Taylor for (as much as we heard), but they traded so much to get this kid instead of standing pat. We would have gladly taken two thirds and a fifth this next year for Taylor at the time, yet that was apparently too much. Anyway if discussions completely stop with this kid, I say try to acquire him. Not a first round pick off course but I would be more than willing to send two second round picks to get a top ten guy like him.
I think we were pretty high on him. However, I can't see us dealing two (2) second round picks for a guy like Derrick Harvey. One, we drafted a DE and a DE/OLB type in Merling. Plus, it's clear that this franchise cares about top draft picks and aren't willing to deal them unless it's a bonafide star. I'm not sure Harvey is. That's the big issue here in Jacksonville though. The Jaguars knew they were going to have issues with a top draft pick and have to give him some money. The fans would much rather have given up a draft pick, even a first, to get Taylor for 2 years and have a 2 year window to legitimately win a Super Bowl. The Jags opted out of that deal and drafted Harvey and Groves. Groves is brutal against the run and it looks as if he's going to be a specialist guy, and Harvey remains unsigned with no future in sight. While Jason Taylor is lining up for the Redskins, happy, and talking about playing another year or two.
It was an unbelievably stupid mistake for them to have made. However, I would disagree and say that Merling has a home at 3-4 DE if the staff chooses to play him there. On the other hand Harvey can occupy that ROLB. Two 2nd round picks in the long-run for a top ten pick is not too too much when you consider Harvey may have been our 3-4th favorite guy in the draft this year. It opens up room to take Jenkins next year instead of Selvie or Johnson at DE/OLB. It's really not so much about the draft picks though in the sense that you're really just drafting a top ten pick once again. It would be amazing in that you'd be covering your entire 3-4 front and OL in one year.
But again, you're dealing for a guy who already has had issues getting signed. Then you still have a team that has plenty of holes to fill--OLB, WR, DB, OL depth, etc. Then you're taking a DE and turning him into an OLB. Alot to try and deal with for a guy you're giving up 2 2nd round draft picks for. Personally, I'm not doing that deal. I'm not giving up our 2nd and the 2nd we receive for JT.
As far as still having needs at OLB, not really no we wouldn't. Harvey would end that. It would be the equivalent of drafting a guy just under the class of Chris Long/Vernon Gholston. 1. We will have to take a DE and make him into an OLB, that was pretty clear from the beginning. All 3-4s do it. 2. We'll have a 1st, 3rd, and 4th to address whatever next year so you can imagine that being your DB, your WR, and veteran OL depth can be found in free agency. 3. This is the cornerstone of your defense. That ROLB spot is critical and you cannot field a good 3-4 without a good player there. 4. We really don't have major cornerstones needs if we do this deal. The foundation is completely in place every sense of the word. We will have young talent at every single spot except CB (which brings me to my point). The difference between doing this deal is making that OLB pick one year earlier that's all there really is to it. It's a question of Selvie+two 2nds versus Harvey+Jenkins In that scenario I take the latter since next year's draft really is something and I'd hate to miss out on its top ten to take care of OLB/DE. In one year I will have essentially rebuilt my entire offensive line and 3-4 and will have years to do whatever the heck I want with the skill positions. To be honest from what we've seen and heard so far all we really need is one top CB and this deal allows you get that with that 2009 top ten pick. The other way around you're hoping that a 2nd rounder can suffice instead. Signing him has been a problem because for some reason the Jags have become cheap and won't give him what is expected of the 8th overall pick this year (what I've heard numbers-wise). It's irrelevant anyway in the long run. The difference you give him in salary will be between 500k-1m over the long-term anyway. By 2010 we could be looking at taking luxury needs like a more explosive tight end. That's how critical it is for Miami to get the front seven and secondary holes out of the way.
There could be another player other than George Selvie. I don't think it's the jaguars. Desides had a good link. The Jaguars are offering a fair amount, but not fair to the Derrick Harvey's standards. I just disagree. I'd stay away from Derrick Harvey. Then again, I'd hate to pass up on a Kevin Carter/Jevon Kearse too, haha (ya, I know primarily 4-3 DE's but UF DE's).
Selvie was an example. Johnson might even be out of our range with the way things are looking. If you were to tell me that we could trade say the 38th and 45th overall pick in any year for the 8th overall I'd accept that deal in a second in almost any year. That's essentially what we'd be looking at.
Normally I would agree, but I do not like Harvey (as an OLB), and never would have taken him at 8th personally.
Thats exactly how I feel. Plus if you were receiving the actual pick you'd have a choice of so many different players. With this you get one guy who just happened to be the #8 pick. It doesn't mean he's the guy you would have chosen with the pick itself.
Right, we could get 2 of CB/WR/TE/LB/S possibly next year. I'd like my chances with that over Harvey.
They asked the question who won in the negotiation. I gotta say nobody here. Derrick Harvey misses out on a real opportunity to be the starter and the Jaguars aren't going to be getting the impact player they hoped they would get.
That's why I said he should have looked at Russell's situation and been in camp regardless of a contract. He got money out of this but he didn't do a great first impression nor will he have an impact that he hopes for.
The Jags HAD to cave on this one. Harvey and his agent held all the leverage. The Jaguars front officeis plain dumb. They showed how much they want/needed Harvey by moving up so far to get him. That was a move of desperation. Meaning that they NEED him for THIS season. Once you let a player and agent know that information, you've lost.
