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Deiter - New OL

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Galant, Apr 27, 2019.

  1. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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  2. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    He looks like he’s 12 LMAO
     
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  3. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    I dont know enough to have a strong opinion. Seemed like perhaps a tadp reachy, but **** it, Wisconsin is like the one team that still produces ready to go linemen for the NFL level so hopefully he can impact early and put Williams and Oliver on their asses.
     
  4. AGuyNamedAlex

    AGuyNamedAlex Well-Known Member

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    I cant unsee that now.
     
  5. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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  6. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Over drafted, he is a liability in pass pro against top level Dlinemen. Should have gone in the fifth or sixth round. His cieling is solid starter.

    Yodny Cajuste should have been the pick. He has an actual all pro cieling.
     
  7. mlb1399

    mlb1399 Well-Known Member

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    I’m at a point where I’m going to trust our current regime until they prove that they can’t be trusted. If they liked him at that point in the draft then I say great pick.
     
  8. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh Club Member

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    Amen. There should be no reason to not give a new regime the benefit of the doubt/
     
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  9. resnor

    resnor Derp Sherpa

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    Flores was up in NE, where they get seemingly anyone to plug into their line. Let's let him assemble a team before we criticize.
     
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  10. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He held his own against Nick Bosa at a position he won't be playing in the NFL.



    We've already talked about you being wrong about his projection too.
     
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  11. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    You call that holding his own? We obviously have very different standards. He gave up a sack to bosa along with several pressures. He was also beaten several times by multiple players. He is lucky his QB was mobile and got rid of the ball quickly or he would have given up more sacks.

    This is a very bad example of his pass blocking skills if that's what you were going for. Like I said he is a pretty good run blocker but his pass protection ability is very lacking. He will get regularly beaten by good pass rushers. The Wisconsin offense hid a lot of his flaws due them being a run heavy offense and having a quick hitting passing game. Unless we adopt that kind of an offense I am worried about his ability to pass protect against NFL Dlinemen.
     
  12. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree I drink your milkshake! Club Member

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    He has a good punch, and as guard he will not have to worry about as many speed rusher, if what I looked at on that tape is an indication of his overall play.

    I see what CK said about him in space. A few times missing a block, and one time where he went for the punch and got punched instead. Should not happen against someone who he is that much bigger than. At least hold his own.

    I like his hands a lot. I like his feet a lot. To go old school Madden, he needs to work on his butt. He relies too much on his hands and not enough on that big ole ***.
     
  13. KeyFin

    KeyFin Well-Known Member

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    When I played O line in HS and college, I LOVED IT when a D lineman was much bigger than me. That meant I would get off the ball faster every time, make first contact and put him on his ***. Pass or run...it didn't matter, I just took 2 steps and laid him out. It was the smaller, more agile guys who were the hardest because technique came into play instead of just raw power/speed.

    With that said, evaluating a lineman based on one game vs one of the best D linemen around is just not fair. He did hold his own while being out of position in the worst possible match-up....that highlight reel played to his favor overall.
     
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  14. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    The biggest hole on the OL is LG, and Deiter should be plug and play there. He is very experienced at LG. Cajuste has only played OT. If you wanted to complain they should have taken Ben Powers, or Dru Samia, then okay, but not Cajuste. We'll see who turns out the best, and if Deiter busts as a starting LG, you can come back, beat your chest, and tell everyone how great you are. As it stands right now, you are not qualified to declare what the ceiling is for any draft pick. None of us are.
     
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  15. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    He. Won't. Be. Playing. LT. In. The. NFL.
     
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  16. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree I drink your milkshake! Club Member

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    I also played online. I was the only 5'8" starting lineman in the league
     
  17. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    BPA offensive linemen at our pick in the 3rd was Cajuste, we do have a hole at RT with jewan James gone and Cajuste would have fit perfectly there. I didn't like Samia but I would definitely have picked Ben Powers over Dieter. Much better pass blocker than Dieter and fairly even as run blockers. Although I wouldn't have picked either in the third. Cajuste should have been the pick. Patriots got a steal with him.
     
  18. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yes, absolutely. You're taking a guard playing him at tackle against probably the best DE in college football and what is very likely at that time a starting NFL quality player and he's allowing you to execute your game plan. That's a good thing, full stop.

    I don't really know why you've decided you need this ax, but you're grinding it pretty funny.
     
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  19. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    It wasn't just bosa beating him regularly. He didn't give up at least 3 or 4 more sacks because the QB was mobile and got rid of the ball quickly. I am not grinding an ax, I'm just giving my opinion on Dieter. I have watched several game tapes on him not just this one and he has the same issues although to a lesser extent at guard. He has serious problems in pass pro against any decent pass rusher, not just bosa. The Wisconsin offense hid his flaws, they were able to execute because they run the ball a lot and get rid of the ball quickly when they do pass.
     
  20. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    That is what's known as an opinion. NFlDraftScout ranked Deiter their 3rd OG after Ford and Lindstrom. Cajuste was their 8th OT.
    We have holes at 3 spots on the OL, basically.
     
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  21. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Look I watched three different game tapes of deiter, plus the senior bowl game and all of the senior bowl practices. I was not at all impressed. He is decent in the running game, but he regularly gets beat whenever he has to deal with a decent pass rusher. He is much better going forward as a run blocker than going backwards in pass pro.

    I would definitely have drafted Ben Powers over him if we really wanted a guard, but I think Cajuste was the BPA olinemen available and he could have stepped right in at RT.

    Yes that's my opinion, let's hope I'm wrong.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2019
  22. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    While I agree in general that we need some results before bringing out torches - and I am ok with the Dieter pick - NE has something we dont in terms of OL development. Dante Scarnecchia (or however you spell it).
     
  23. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    And he seems irreplaceable. They had to drag him out of retirement after one year without him.
     
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  24. Electric Boogaloo

    Electric Boogaloo Inventor of the question mark

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    I hope he succeeds, but some of that tape was dreadful. As y’all have said, good push in the run game, but very suspect in pass pro. Just my opinion.
     
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  25. ripper1961

    ripper1961 Active Member

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    And our oline hasn't played a down yet. When you are used to being in the basement the sky is the limit.
     
  26. Alex13

    Alex13 Welcome to the NEW Miami Club Member

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    and why should anyone really care if you came away impressed or not
     
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  27. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    We could draft the second coming of Montana and people here will have a problem with it.. let the coaches do their thing... if theyre following the NE model, deiter is here until his contract is up and then theyre drafting another linemen to replace them. They dont pay linemen, nor runningbacks. Which is why Gaskin is here cause Drake is almost due for a contract.
     
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  28. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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    https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article230302419.html

    ""A lot of college offenses throw the ball, so you want to find some guys that are skilled in run blocking,” Dolphins offensive line coach Pat Flaherty explained. “You never get a lot of guys that [are] overall developed in both areas. We want smart, tough, physical guys and that’s what we were looking for in the draft.”"

    "Wisconsin averaged 43.9 rushing attempts in 2018, compared to just 23.4 passing attempts.

    So while there were more talented options available to the Dolphins before taking Deiter in the third round two weeks back, there might not have been a better option.

    “We’re going to be a tough, physical team,” Brian Flores said during rookie minicamp.

    The Dolphins drafted like it.

    They took Deiter (6-foot-5, 309 pounds) in Round 3, Ohio State tackle Isaiah Prince (6-6, 305) in Round 6 and fullback Chandler Cox (6-1, 242) in Round 7.

    All three have the same instructions:

    Use your strength and size to move defenders out of the way.

    “We must be able to run the football and get four-plus yards a carry and then we have to be able to keep the pocket clean and protect the quarterback,” Flaherty said. “Pressures are going to happen. Hits and sacks, that’s a bad word, bad words in our room.”"
     
  29. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    This draft site ranks Deiter as the 38th overall player in the draft.
    https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/michael-deiter

    A 54-game starter at Wisconsin, Deiter made 24 starts at left guard, 16 at center and 14 and left tackle but his best fit at the next level comes at guard where his mobility and play strength is maximized but his lack of length is less of a concern. Showing steady improvement throughout his career, Deiter capped his career numerous accolades including being named the Big Ten Offensive Lineman of the Year in 2018. Given his experience in a pro-style system and technical refinement, Deiter has the makings of an early starter in the NFL that is productive in every aspect of the position.

    Round Grade - Second Round Value
     
  30. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    They don't pay linemen???

    RG Shaq Mason, was drafted by the Patriots in the 4th round of the 2015 NFL Draft, on August 27, 2018, signed a five-year, $50 million contract extension with the Patriots.

    C David Andrews, a 2015 UDFA by the Pats, signed a three-year contract extension with the Patriots, May 12, 2017, through the 2020 season. The deal has a base value of $9.6 million, with a $1.6 million signing bonus, and an additional $2.1 million in incentives.
     
  31. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Scarnecchia was "retired" for two seasons, 2014 and 2015. He was replaced by Dave DeGuglielmo. In the 2 seasons without Scar, and with Gugs, the Pats won SB 49, and lost the AFC Championship by 2 points to eventual SB 50 winner, Denver Broncos. The OL minus LT Nate Solder struggled vs Demarcus Ware, and Von Miller in that AFCCG loss, and Gugs was made the scapegoat.
    Gugs has been the Dolphins OL coach twice, and did pretty well compared to other recent past OL coaches the team has had. It was also reported earlier today, Gugs is returning to the Dolphins as an OL analyst, according to the PBP, helping lead OL coach Pat Flaherty. Gugs was Flaherty's asst OL coach for 5 seasons with the Giants, 2004-2008.
     
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  32. Surfs Up 99

    Surfs Up 99 Team Flores

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    I am hoping between Flaherty and Guglielmo that they are able to make some chicken salad. The pieces they have to work with are a mixed bag and all of them might not be grade A, but maybe they still can come up with something tasty that won't give Rosen (or us) food poisoning this year.
     
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  33. Galant

    Galant Love - Unity - Sacrifice - Eternity Staff Member

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  34. Sceeto

    Sceeto Well-Known Member

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    Dolphins’ offensive line draft strategy reveals much about their vision on offense
    https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/nfl/miami-dolphins/article230302419.html

    The Dolphins could have drafted any offensive lineman not named Jonah Williams at 13.

    Just two guards were off the board when they were on the clock at 48. But they passed on linemen each time, waiting until pick No. 78 to finally address their front five, which three weeks ago was probably their thinnest position. Why?

    Christian Wilkins had a higher grade than any other player available in Round 1, and the Dolphins were determined to trade down in Round 2, acquiring a second-rounder in 2020 and then trading for Josh Rosen with the 62nd pick.

    But perhaps there’s another explanation: the limited amount of functional game tape for the year’s best collegiate offensive linemen.

    “A lot of college offenses throw the ball, so you want to find some guys that are skilled in run blocking,” Dolphins offensive line coach Pat Flaherty explained. “You never get a lot of guys that [are] overall developed in both areas. We want smart, tough, physical guys and that’s what we were looking for in the draft.”

    Deiter checks all those boxes.

    Wisconsin’s do-everything offensive lineman started a ridiculous 54 straight games in college. And the Badgers are no finesse team. Wisconsin averaged 43.9 rushing attempts in 2018, compared to just 23.4 passing attempts.

    “We’re going to be a tough, physical team,” Brian Flores said during rookie minicamp.

    The Dolphins drafted like it.

    They took Deiter (6-foot-5, 309 pounds) in Round 3, Ohio State tackle Isaiah Prince (6-6, 305) in Round 6 and fullback Chandler Cox (6-1, 242) in Round 7.

    All three have the same instructions:

    Use your strength and size to move defenders out of the way.

    “We must be able to run the football and get four-plus yards a carry and then we have to be able to keep the pocket clean and protect the quarterback,” Flaherty said. “Pressures are going to happen. Hits and sacks, that’s a bad word, bad words in our room.”





     
    Last edited: May 13, 2019
  35. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    https://www.thephinsider.com/2019/5...staff-indianapolis-colts-new-england-patriots

    Looks like we’re bringing back Guglielmo as an OL consultant.

    Mixed kind of feelings about this because a truly talented position coach shouldn’t bounce around the league the way he has. However:
    - he was given a lot of credit for putting together a solid OL for the colts last year
    - his departure from NE seems more related to brining an all time great position coach back. The NE OL when he was running it wasn’t horrible, just not as good as Scarnechia (sp?).
    - He was ok to good in Miami 2009-2011, but not so good in 2017.
     
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  36. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    In 2016, I think Deiter played Center all season. I'd be interested in knowing how his PFF grades were at that position, because to the naked eye he looked really solid. He definitely should never play LT in the NFL, unless it is a dire emergency.
     
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  37. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    A lot of us were really hoping the Dolphins would draft Chase Winovich in the 2nd/3rd round area. He went one pick ahead of the Deiter pick. At the time, many reactions were that the Dolphins had to settle for Deiter because the Pats swooped in and stole Chase one pick ahead. That was sort of my initial reaction too, but I'm thinking now, as badly as we need interior OL, it is quite likely Deiter would have still been the pick even if Chase was still on the board.
    A few years ago, the Pats drafted plug and play LG Joe Thuney with the 78th overall pick, which was where Deiter was taken this year. Let's hope Deiter becomes for Miami what Thuney is for the Pats.
     
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  38. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    https://www.nfl.com/prospects/michael-deiter?id=32194445-4913-7530-3932-9da3d6c8f088
    It looks like he's got a little more than a full college season at Center, just broken up over two seasons.
     
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  39. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

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  40. hitman8

    hitman8 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, he was better at center. Playing center disguises some of his shortcomings in dealing with speed and one on one blocks.
     

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