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Curious reg:opinions on Beck

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by my 2 cents, Dec 11, 2007.

  1. my 2 cents

    my 2 cents Well-Known Member

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    I am curious for those who see something in Beck....of which I am not one....but, I am willing to be open minded and would like your opinion. I am not at all interested in all the million reasons why Beck has looked horrible (the OL, lack of talent, poor timing, or any other of the 1,000 reasons). I can read many posts and opinions on THAT.

    What my question is...What have you seen in his talent and skill set that would make you think he will be even an average NFL QB?

    IMHO, in college and at the AS game last year...poor pocket awareness, does not protect the ball, inconsistent mechanics, average arm at best (although somehow some see a better arm than I have seen), and a case of the yips when in the pocket and he gets ANY pressure. Is was/is better than average on the move looking to throw however...anyway, i digress...opinions? WHAT tools have YOU seen...not read about but seen?
     
  2. lbmclean_sj

    lbmclean_sj New Member

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    I think his only issue is the low delivery

    having a crappy team around him has not helped his cause
     
  3. lbmclean_sj

    lbmclean_sj New Member

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    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MflFK7Q0o9E[/ame]
     
  4. Jsbaugh

    Jsbaugh New Member

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    Another moronic post that should be locked.

    Lets analyze the Beck situation once and for all so the 12 year olds on this forum can get a grip.
    Beck has started 3 games, with the Bills game not counting. First game against philly in bad weather, against a tough D. Did we expect much from him this game? NO we didnt. Positives that we saw were game management an NO turnovers.
    Second game against the Steelers. In probably what is considered the worst conditions of all time. Lets put that in perspective. Neither team made it to the redzone until the last 50 secs of that game. Neither QB threw a pass towards the endzone the entire game. Final score 3-0. Beck once again showed game management skills with no turnovers. He led the team down the field a couple of times but do to Cams inability to call a play they probably left 3 points out there.
    THIRD game for Beck was against the Jets. First half Beck looked comfortable leading the team down for a couple of field goals. Due to some piss poor running calls they settled for 6 points. Second half was a different story. The oline started leaking which created a couple of fumbles and Beck thru a bad INT. The Defense wasent stopping anyone and the game got out of hand. As I watched that game I noticed Becks game got worse as the Oline was not blocking and we relyed on him to pass everydown. That let the Jets sit in a prevent D which didnt give him any looks down field. Im not making excuses for 2 of Becks INT's as they shouldnt have been thrown.
    Becks forth start against the Bills. Basically the time he spent out there he was either running for his life or taking a 3 step drop and getting sacked on the 3rd step. The fumble which was his fault slipped out of his hand and I have seen that many times from different QB's.
    That about sums up Becks 3 starts as an NFL QB. From the limited time we saw the positives were game management, his accuracy was increasing with each game and for the most part he took care of the ball. Its hard to really asses his development based off those games. I wont even go into the fact this team has no running game, Oline, WR's, COACH or defense to help out a rookie QB.

    If all this team needed was a QB to make it a contendor then I would be worried about Beck and would consider taking a QB in the draft, but with the complete mess surrounding the dolphins right now its unfair to say Beck isnt the one, or at least give him some time to prove himself under different circumstances.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2007
  5. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Hard to tell much about John Beck, the Qb's best friend, a running game is down to Samkon Gado, and we are shuffling Lk3 in and out of the games.

    Our Te's cannot block a blowing in the wind hot dog wrapper and that poor play has come close to getting Beck killed.

    The one thing I haven't seen from Beck is that "wow" play, the one that just showcases how much ability he has out on the field.

    So far the only "wow" has been "Wow, that Linebacker sacked him fast, was he even touched?" or "Wow, what a hit, I hope he is okay"?
     
  6. my 2 cents

    my 2 cents Well-Known Member

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    Another Classless non VIP'er post that takes a personal shot rather than actually have someone read the post to them so they can understand it...Once again for those such as Jsbaugh that cannot comprehend my post....I am not looking to analyze the situation that Beck was thrust into nor what surrounds him...I CLEARLY asked what tools or skill set have you SEEN that would indicate Mr. Beck is an NFL QB...all I see are a poorly disguised reference to some arbitrary "game managment is Cam's fault' as the reference point for my question which is regarding Skill set and Tools.......care to try again junior.

     
  7. my 2 cents

    my 2 cents Well-Known Member

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    Padre, I agree with you it is hard to tell after such limited playing time....but I have not seen the arm, touch, ball handling or pocket awarness or any....any inkling of the skills one would need to compete in the NFL...I have heard all these great things about his arm etc,,,just have not seen it...at ALL.

    If maturity were the key to being a great NFL QB...hell let's bring back Bobby Layne....I would like to glimpse some of the skills not continue to hear about sitauational analysis such as another poster responded....

    Thanks for the the reply.

     
  8. my 2 cents

    my 2 cents Well-Known Member

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    By the way before you reference someone as a moron, you may want to actually KNOW their background...I am not 12, 43 actually, retired businessman, played 3 years college football as a QB and baseball as a pitcher, played professional baseball for 2, ran 3 successful large businesses, started my own company and sold it so i know a little something about organizational structure and key operational managment. I have several posts rated very well by fellow FinHeaven VIP'ers, and I think at least from the feedback that I am a valued member of this community....you care to give another moronic judgemental post for us all to read or are you really that knowledgable of all of us morons, Ms. Cleo?

     
  9. lbmclean_sj

    lbmclean_sj New Member

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    there is a saying that a good TE is a young QB's best friend

    Beck has no friends on one of the worst teams in NFL history

    if it takes a training camp for a savvy vet to get in synch with his receivers then how long would it take for a rookie to get in synch with the crap we have?

    we have a high-school CB learning to play WR, pedestrian at best TE's and "Will Allen has better hands" Hagan

    its a good thing that Beck is a man and can deal with this
     
  10. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Ball handling, as in being conscious of where the ball is, has been MIA.

    Also IMO, his presnap reads are terrible, as in non existent and that is making him a sitting duck on virtually any blitz.

    For me, that is the difference between Beck and Lemon at this point.

    I also feel that putting him out there without a running game to rely on will skew our views on John Beck. It is just not a situation that he can succeed in right now.


    The one "great" throw I've seen Beck make was to Hagan during the Steelers mud bowl game, and of course he dropped it.

    And i already have to question his confidence right now, his mistakes since the Jets game have come in bunches, and they tend to be same mistakes as well.

    That is a byproduct of lack of experience, he will get over that...hopefully...
     
  11. FINintheMOON

    FINintheMOON Moderator Luxury Box

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    The bottom line, IMHO, is that there hasn't been much opportunity for him to display any of his true skills as of yet. While poor conditions protected him in the first 2 games, in the fact that neither team was getting much pressure from the defense or much support from the running and passing game on offense.

    Once we did get a fair weather game, it was against the Jets but they had pretty much done the same thing against the Steelers and beat them as well.

    Without a running game, there is now way you can actually pass judgement on Beck's lack of skill or what skills he actually has as a rookie in the league. I am sure that the 5 turnovers he had in the JETS game weighed heavily on him throughout the following week and was on his mind last week.

    Speaking of last week, it took only 1 play to back off that defense from the constant blitzes they were giving against Beck. That was the deep past completion when Cleo came in and then a rushing TD from 10 yards out. 2 plays and a score...

    However I digress... I guess my point is that there isn't enough evidence in a game situation to pass judgement either way at this point in Beck's career...
     
  12. my 2 cents

    my 2 cents Well-Known Member

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    Good points and well presented...Thanks. something to think on.

     
  13. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Perfectly stated. I think there have been faint positives like a little bit of good pocket awareness against Philly, and from time to time nice zip on his passes. But he has just been really hindered by the team around him. I think also the playcalling has held him back from showing any positives. Like FITM said, it took one play to get the defense to back off a bit, but unfortunately that play came with Lemon in the game. I don't understand why that kind of play was never called with Beck at QB.
     
  14. TigerJ

    TigerJ New Member

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    Buffalo did what most any NFL team will do to a young QB who hasn't had many starts. Even though the Bills are a cover 2 defense that doesn't blitz, they blitzed him on nearly every play. He did what most young QBs do in that situation. He panicked and fell apart. You can't evaluate his potential based on what happened to him in Buffalo. I think at this point, you have to assume that he is what people thought he was when he came out of BYU, a smart QB with a good arm and quick feet who probably can become a success in the NFL. You just need to work at surrounding him with good players over time.

    BTW, I like Trent Edwards better.
     
  15. lbmclean_sj

    lbmclean_sj New Member

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    our blitz pick ups sucked, which is bound to happen when you are starting the 8th string RB
     
  16. EightyTwenty

    EightyTwenty Don't laugh at the mule

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    I see a high-strung, young (in experience) player, who has a chance to be a solid and efficient quarterback. Like a Drew Brees type, as others have mentioned. Phil Simms is another possible comparison. I don't think he's ever going to light up the skies, but he appears to be very smart and committed, so he has a chance to be an above-average, although maybe not a great, QB. That's my opinion today - subject to change at any time.
     
  17. Awsi Dooger

    Awsi Dooger New Member

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    That's the only unexpected negative I've seen.

    Rookie QBs on lousy teams are a notorious disaster. That's well known here in Las Vegas but I don't see enough acceptance on this forum. Miami can't stop the pass (or run) and with a rookie QB it's almost inevitable you won't be able to throw well yourself. At that point, inevitable avalanche. Turning back to Lemon is absolutely the correct move, IMO.

    The worst thing to happen to this franchise in years was the meaningless winning streak to end '05. That not only caused too much phony optimism heading into '06, but it also may have prevented us from getting Jay Cutler in the '06 draft.

    I wasn't completely convinced about Cutler because he always flashed inconsistency in college. As a senior Vanderbilt did well against top teams but Cutler was horrible against some lesser opponents, including two losses as double digit home favorite. A ridiculous late season home loss to Kentucky cost Vandy a bowl bid.

    Cutler was similarly erratic in the NFL with at least one INT per game for a long stretch, but not he's quietly become one of the most dangerous downfield throwers in the league. Now at 7.9 YPPA, terrific.

    Every time I see him I get disgusted about that long '05 winning streak, and wonder how in the world Tennessee and others could have preferred Vince Young.
     
  18. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Awsi,
    I agree with your points for the most part, but my concern with Beck is ball security. You need to hang on to the ball even when you get hit from behind. He arguably looked worst in the game with the best conditions against the worst defense, which is concerning.

    I think Beck gets a shot as starter next year, almost regardless of the coaching staff. Where the QB position reaches a critical mass is next off season I believe. Unless Beck is spectacular, we'll probably be picking very high again. I think the QB class for next year has the potential to better than this years. Keep an eye on Cullen Harper from Clemson, very intrigued to see his progression next season.
     
  19. Awsi Dooger

    Awsi Dooger New Member

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    I expected a thumping from the Jets and especially the Bills, so I probably wasn't as focused on the ball security issues.

    This may sound weird, but I normally evaluate rookie QBs based largely on preseason. The speed of the game and intensity level is closer to what they faced in college. Beck flashed many good traits in those games, particularly leading the late TD drives vs. Jacksonville and Kansas City. At that point I'd basically concluded he has promise and I'm not going to overreact to regular season games, where a rookie QB on a horrid team is inevitably in a tunnel vision daze. I remember many friends asserting Peyton was a bust, based on how he looked as a rookie.

    The low delivery does concern me. I wish I saved some BYU tapes to compare but I seem to have erased them. I don't remember it being so low in preseason.
     
  20. Cpufan

    Cpufan Junior Member

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    I see a Patyon Manning type of player.. Hard working and studious...lets see if he can be like Payton in that fact that their desire to win far excells their physical skills. At least this is what I am hoping for.

    Also it seems the curse of the we know more than the lowly non vip'ers do has followed us even here. Sadly it's knowledge that puffs up.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2007
  21. abNORMal

    abNORMal New Member

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    I read most of the posts in this thread. I really appreciate the thread starters query, for I also, am looking for something positive from Beck to hang my hat on going into next season....and the posts i read seem more like you guys are making excuses for why we haven't seen much from Beck, instead of commenting on his positives....

    and the youtube recap of the draft...Wow, they were all over Beck's jock.

    As for me I haven't really see anything exceptional from him. He reminds me of Bob Griese (yes, I am old enough to remember him). Not exeptional physically, but could do enough to get the job done, and I can live with that. He just has to eliminate the boneheaded mistakes...
     
  22. inFINSible

    inFINSible Bad ministrator

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    At various points in every game he's played I have seen evidence of the following....
    • He can take a hit.
    • He's got a hell of an arm.
    • He's accurate.
    • He's got some good pocket awareness
    • He's got decent wheels.
    • He's not afraid to put his head down and get that extra yard if he needs it.
    • He's proven (in college and in the preseason) that he is capable of leading a team to victory when it's most important.
    • He's show that, given time he can deliver a strike 15-20 yards downfield with far more precision than any QB we've see around here in a long time.
    • He's a gunslinger, he'll throw passes he shouldn't, and he'll complete passes that he shouldn't have thrown.

    Off the field...
    • He wants to play and get better.
    • He is very smart and competitive.
    • He studies hard.
    • He hasn't once blamed anybody but himself for his play when it's obvious to all but the blind, that there is plenty of blame to go around.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2007
  23. #1dolphinsfan

    #1dolphinsfan New Member

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    I think he just needs to get up to the speed with the NFL when he can do that he could become a great QB
     
  24. mmikel30

    mmikel30 New Member

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    i agree with everything but the accuracy coming out of college beck was supposed to be the most accurate qb in the draft they talked alot about his accuracy but i didn't see it even in his highlight reels the ball tends to be a little short on throws with arch
     
  25. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    That last part says a lot about Beck's character. And his patience.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2007
  26. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    Hmmm...

    In all fairness...to John Beck or to anyone else, I really am not qualified to make an accurate judgment to this point. Im not a QB coach...nor have I played QB. What I can offer is my opinion based on what I see.

    His first two games he seemed to go through his progressions reasonably well, in fact, it was noted by several that he did so. You can toss the Pitt game, because...that really wasn't a football game...and we all know it.

    I think he shows very good zip on the ball...and have heard from several of his receivers that John throws a great ball. Far superior to Jay Fiedler.

    He has shown to be very professional. I think he has handled the adversity of trying to start on a winless team very well. I think its important to keep this in mind...trying to get that one win as the clock gets closer to noon has got to be immensely stressful. In hindsight...starting him before we won one game was not the correct decision, even though I myself got caught up in wanting to see him. Cam was right all along.

    Hes a bit shell shocked right now...but I don't hold that against the guy. Mueller said the first year, guys aren't relying on instinct yet, that comes in the second year. I am very comfortable with him being our franchise QB, and I honestly cant tell you why. I didn't have a gut feeling on any QB we have had since Marino. I do with this kid.
     
  27. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member


    But..heres where I kinda disagree with your thinking.....


    ROOKIE QB's are going to make BONEHEADED MISTAKES. They ALL have. Elway, Manning, Marino...they all did. Whats important at this stage isnt that he is making them...but watching him improve in his decision making. And really...asides from the Jets game...did he really make alot of BONEHEADED mistakes....I didnt see to many against Buffalo...he wasnt in long enough.
     
  28. gandalfin

    gandalfin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    One thing that comes to mind was an ESPN feature that Ron Jaworski did on Beck following the draft. He analyzed Beck, particularly on a couple of out patterns where he really zipped the ball and threw before the receiver made his break. It was pretty impressive. As far as his pro career up till now, it's impossible to judge because of the god awful surrounding cast he has, and questionable game planning and play calling (to put it kindly). I really believe he is intellegent and motivated. He may or may not develop into a top QB, but I think the potential is there if he somehow gets a stronger supporting cast. That's the biggest question mark now. He will have a hard time progressing until that happens.
     
  29. mmikel30

    mmikel30 New Member

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    bone head plays : the miscues under center the gift wrapped fumble/interception for a td the negative -11 yards of offense. wasn't that enough in that short stint of time. or did you wan't to see more ?
     
  30. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    I dont know. Can say alot about Beck right now both good and bad. But ultimately, we will have the first pick in the draft. Has Beck given the staff enough to warrant passing on Matt Ryan or Brian Brohm?
    Its nice to say we can just "get one the year after because if Beck sucks, we will suck again." But that is a fools view. You have the real thing right here and now, why would you pass it up on chance? What happens if that Clemson QB blows out a knee? What happens if we end up with something like 6-7th pick and cant get our man? We are stuck.
    Also, wed be 2 years behind on developing a QB.
    Becks future is in as much flux atm as anyone on this team. In many ways he is tied to Cameron and Mueller. It will be a difficult choice.
     
  31. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That was far from a bonehead play. The ball slipped out of his hand. It was a mistake, but a bonehead mistake is a poor decision and that was a freak accident in poor conditions. You obviously don't want to see that from your QB, but I'd rather see a freak thing like that happen then him throw into coverage.
     
  32. abNORMal

    abNORMal New Member

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    Hey watch what you say about Marino!!
    I don't think we disagree at all. Those are rookie mistakes and he still needs to eliminate them as he gets more playing time... I guess I am looking for the WOW factor something, anything that makes my jaw drop and just go, Dang that was an awesome play, I haven't seen that from Beck yet, but I am still hopeful.
     

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