Cowboys Intrested in Darren McFadden According to ESPN.....

"#1dolphinsfan wrote:

yea i get what ur talking about but if he doesnt want to loss him at any cost he might want to pick #1 what if miami Traded with someone else and they took him like maybe Detroit

maybe there is an Adrian Peterson effect that I am unware of, but I don't think teams are clamoring to trade up high to get McFadden.

Jones is kinda a get what I want at all costs guy, so if he wants to be a moron and give us a boatload of picks/players then great

Also, if Jeff Ireland doesn't like John Beck, why was John Beck one of the first players on the team that he reached out to?

Also, why is the team hiring an offensive coordinator that has worked with Drew Brees, a quarterback John Beck gets compared to a great deal, since the 2002 season?

If you had film on John Beck and film on Matt Ryan, there is no way on this earth that you can watch both and come away with the idea that Matt Ryan is a superior prospect. The only thing he has on Beck is size. Beck has a better arm, is a better decision maker, is a more accurate passer, has better feet in the pocket, and has better overall awareness of the passing game than Matt Ryan.

"adamprez2003 wrote:

So if this trade down doesnt happen Matt Ryan will be our QB.

I smell a bet on the horizon........

Just accept the fact already that Parcells doesnt like Beck and will not give him a fair chance to compete for the starting job.

Wouldn't that be foolish of him?

Miami spends a 2nd round pick on a player, he only plays in a handfull of games without any sort of surrounding talent, and the Tuna just gives up on him. I don't see it. I think Beck will get a chance to compete next year with whatever vet is brought in, again this is a rebuilding team and we can be patient with Beck. His success or failure next year isn't going to make or break our season.

Now, do I think that we will draft a QB at some point? Sure I do, Miami has been sniffing all around that Flacco kid. But that doesn't mean that Tuna and Co. are just going to throw away an asset without knowing how well he can perform.

And I know you disagree with this, but Ireland did say that the Boys had a high opinion of Beck before the draft. I think that should count for something. The QB position is in no way settled (Beck is the only sure thing to return) but that doesn't mean that he isn't a part of the future.

"lbmclean_sj wrote:

maybe there is an Adrian Peterson effect that I am unware of, but I don't think teams are clamoring to trade up high to get McFadden.

Jones is kinda a get what I want at all costs guy, so if he wants to be a moron and give us a boatload of picks/players then great

There could be alot of inside the NFL type stuff going on lbm, Parcells against Belicheck for example, and J Jones might like a piece of that type of action.

"If" the Cowboys trade up and pick up McF, and they win the Super Bowl, Jones will have gotten the "best" of his fmr employees in Ireland and Tuna and Co as well as potentially finding his own All Pro Rb in Dallas.

Owners, some Owners are really peculiar, remember when Jones hired Barry Switzer more or less because he wanted it made plain that the Cowboys were good enough to win with a stiff of a HC and Jones didn't need jimmie johnson around to win it all?

"KB21 wrote:

Also, if Jeff Ireland doesn't like John Beck, why was John Beck one of the first players on the team that he reached out to?

Also, why is the team hiring an offensive coordinator that has worked with Drew Brees, a quarterback John Beck gets compared to a great deal, since the 2002 season?

If you had film on John Beck and film on Matt Ryan, there is no way on this earth that you can watch both and come away with the idea that Matt Ryan is a superior prospect. The only thing he has on Beck is size. Beck has a better arm, is a better decision maker, is a more accurate passer, has better feet in the pocket, and has better overall awareness of the passing game than Matt Ryan.

Yeah, that's the first thing that stuck out to me when Ireland said he had contacted Beck along with JT. I just don't think he makes that overture if they weren't seriously considering Beck as the long-term answer.

"KB21 wrote:

Let's just put it this way. If Bill Parcells overrules everyone in the building and drafts Matt Ryan with the #1 overall pick, then Miami made a tremendously bad decision with bringing Parcells in to run the football operations. Matt Ryan isn't now nor will he be worth the #1 overall pick in the draft. He also isn't a better quarterback prospect than John Beck.

I dont understand what you mean by overrule everyone in the building? Everyone in the building is there by invitation of Bill. Everyone in the building is there because they either think like Bill or will roll over when Bill declares something. This is the Bill Parcells Show now. Good and Bad. Napolean was a humble man compared to Bill.

Parcells prefers to run a variation of the Erhardt-Perkins system. Belichik did too before he fell in love with the spread. His three most important stats in terms of passing are sack percentage, yds per attempt and no penalties. It is a more vertical system than the one Cameron ran. Beck is more suited for a lateral based passing attack than a vertical one IMO. Its obvious he has very good accuracy in the short and intermediate game. His deep accuracy is the problem however. In college according to scouting reports and was a problem in his limited stint here. Parcells will look for a big tough QB who has deep accuracy. It makes sense. Different sysytem, different QB.

I would also be amazed if there is one service or draft site that gave Beck a higher pre draft ranking than Ryan will have after the combine

"FanMarino wrote:

I like the way you said "fair". Which says to me you think Beck needs to be given a chance? I do. Give him a pre-season at least.

Beck definitely has a future and deserves a chance to develop. It probably wont be here though. Expect him to hold the clipboard for a year and maybe we trade him in 2009. Maybe the Ravens would be interested now that Cameron is there?

"KB21 wrote:

Also, if Jeff Ireland doesn't like John Beck, why was John Beck one of the first players on the team that he reached out to?

Also, why is the team hiring an offensive coordinator that has worked with Drew Brees, a quarterback John Beck gets compared to a great deal, since the 2002 season?

If you had film on John Beck and film on Matt Ryan, there is no way on this earth that you can watch both and come away with the idea that Matt Ryan is a superior prospect. The only thing he has on Beck is size. Beck has a better arm, is a better decision maker, is a more accurate passer, has better feet in the pocket, and has better overall awareness of the passing game than Matt Ryan.

Who's he going to reach out too on offense, Ted Ginn? First calls you make are always to the QB and the leader of the defense.

"#1dolphinsfan wrote:

ESPN's Chris Mortensen reports the Cowboys have a strong interest in Arkansas RB Darren McFadden It looks like this is our Chance to trade Down if we could get Both there 22 pick and 28th pick that would be great if we could get alot of Picks from dallas even though they Draft Low in about ever round we can get some pretty good Picks

Here is the link
http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=4649

Gee where have I heard that before????

http://www.celtkin.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2275

"like2god wrote:

I smell a bet on the horizon........

Wouldn't that be foolish of him?

Miami spends a 2nd round pick on a player, he only plays in a handfull of games without any sort of surrounding talent, and the Tuna just gives up on him. I don't see it. I think Beck will get a chance to compete next year with whatever vet is brought in, again this is a rebuilding team and we can be patient with Beck. His success or failure next year isn't going to make or break our season.

Now, do I think that we will draft a QB at some point? Sure I do, Miami has been sniffing all around that Flacco kid. But that doesn't mean that Tuna and Co. are just going to throw away an asset without knowing how well he can perform.

And I know you disagree with this, but Ireland did say that the Boys had a high opinion of Beck before the draft. I think that should count for something. The QB position is in no way settled (Beck is the only sure thing to return) but that doesn't mean that he isn't a part of the future.

You certainly have a point if you are considering what's best for the Dolphins and believe Beck is as good or better than Ryan, Brohm, Flacco, etc..The thing is, this isnt about what's best for the Dolphins per se. This is about what's best for Parcells. Would it have been better for the Dolphins to keep the offensive system in place and keep Cameron for another year? Who cares? There is no way Parcells is going to leave any remnants of the Cameron regime here. First the coaching staff and eventually the one or two reminders of the Cameron drafts will be gone. Ted Ginn could be an eventual casualty also although a WR has less face value than a QB.

This isnt about what's right or fair exactly. This is about bringing in "your" guys

"adamprez2003 wrote:

I dont understand what you mean by overrule everyone in the building? Everyone in the building is there by invitation of Bill. Everyone in the building is there because they either think like Bill or will roll over when Bill declares something. This is the Bill Parcells Show now. Good and Bad. Napolean was a humble man compared to Bill.

Parcells prefers to run a variation of the Erhardt-Perkins system. Belichik did too before he fell in love with the spread. His three most important stats in terms of passing are sack percentage, yds per attempt and no penalties. It is a more vertical system than the one Cameron ran. Beck is more suited for a lateral based passing attack than a vertical one IMO. Its obvious he has very good accuracy in the short and intermediate game. His deep accuracy is the problem however. In college according to scouting reports and was a problem in his limited stint here. Parcells will look for a big tough QB who has deep accuracy. It makes sense. Different sysytem, different QB.

I would also be amazed if there is one service or draft site that gave Beck a higher pre draft ranking than Ryan will have after the combine

I mean overrule everyone in the building because they don't share the same opinion as he does. I think it is obvious that Jeff Ireland likes John Beck, and I can understand why. I don't think Ireland is married to the idea that their quarterback has to be 6'5", 230+ lbs to be successful.

Also, Bill Parcells was a big fan of Drew Brees as well, and Drew isn't the behemoth quarterback everyone assumes Parcells prefers.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/print?id=2368304&type=story

Brees comes to New Orleans with high recommendations. Cowboys coach Bill Parcells has always been a big fan of Brees and advised his former assistant, Sean Payton, to take Brees if he had the chance. Payton is the new coach of the Saints.

there are 3 months for Sparano, Ireland and Lee to evaluate Beck v. Ryan/Brohm/Flacco/et al

lets hope they are doing their due dilligence

they didn't throw Green out with the bath water which is a good sign

"PhinGeneral wrote:

Yeah, that's the first thing that stuck out to me when Ireland said he had contacted Beck along with JT. I just don't think he makes that overture if they weren't seriously considering Beck as the long-term answer.

The hiring of Coaches who handled Drew Brees is also a sign of Parcells and Companies intentions.

"lbmclean_sj wrote:

they didn't throw Green out with the bath water which is a good sign

Thank God, he might have gotten injured if they did.

Another point I want to make is about the Erhardt-Perkings offensive system.

Who is going to run that system in Miami?

The offensive coordinator job has been offered to Pete Carmichael Jr. He has not been a part of the Erhardt-Perkins system. His offensive background comes from Gary Crowton's spread offense at Louisiana Tech., Cam Cameron's Coryell offense from San Diego, and Sean Payton's offense from New Orleans.

Here's another connection in favor of John Beck. Gary Crowton and Pete Carmichael's past relationship. Crowton recruited John Beck to BYU and was his head coach during his first season as a starter.

"KB21 wrote:

Mort mentioned that to get the deal done, Dallas would have to include both first round picks and Marion Barber.

He also mentioned Miami being high on Matt Ryan, but I think that is a smoke screen to stir up interest in the pick. Drafting Matt Ryan with the 1st pick is one of the worst things Miami can do with that pick. He's not a top 15 guy in this draft, much less a candidate for the #1 overall pick.

:001_rolleyes:

"KB21 wrote:

Another point I want to make is about the Erhardt-Perkings offensive system.

Who is going to run that system in Miami?

The offensive coordinator job has been offered to Pete Carmichael Jr. He has not been a part of the Erhardt-Perkins system. His offensive background comes from Gary Crowton's spread offense at Louisiana Tech., Cam Cameron's Coryell offense from San Diego, and Sean Payton's offense from New Orleans.

Here's another connection in favor of John Beck. Gary Crowton and Pete Carmichael's past relationship. Crowton recruited John Beck to BYU and was his head coach during his first season as a starter.

That's actually the best point I have heard in regards to having Beck be the starter next year. I wasnt aware of the Carmichael connections. Who knows? It would certainly bode well or at least for Beck if Parcells goes that route. I cant see him goig with Beck but if we're going to run the Coryell hybrid instead of the Erhardt/ Perkins then its possible. Nice point KB

"KB21 wrote:

Mort mentioned that to get the deal done, Dallas would have to include both first round picks and Marion Barber.

He also mentioned Miami being high on Matt Ryan, but I think that is a smoke screen to stir up interest in the pick. Drafting Matt Ryan with the 1st pick is one of the worst things Miami can do with that pick. He's not a top 15 guy in this draft, much less a candidate for the #1 overall pick.

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks this:hi5:

"KB21 wrote:

Also, if Jeff Ireland doesn't like John Beck, why was John Beck one of the first players on the team that he reached out to?

Also, why is the team hiring an offensive coordinator that has worked with Drew Brees, a quarterback John Beck gets compared to a great deal, since the 2002 season?

If you had film on John Beck and film on Matt Ryan, there is no way on this earth that you can watch both and come away with the idea that Matt Ryan is a superior prospect. The only thing he has on Beck is size. Beck has a better arm, is a better decision maker, is a more accurate passer, has better feet in the pocket, and has better overall awareness of the passing game than Matt Ryan.

Well obviously the scouts and observers that are grading prospects up to this point disagree with you since Ryan is projected to go fairly early first round at this point. Nobody projected Beck that high last year. I'm not all that enamoured with Ryan but obviously at this point he is much more highly thought of than Beck. Not sure what my opinion is on the matter although I would take Ryan based on age and size alone, but what do I know I wanted Edwards over Beck last year and got bashed by some of our so called experts.

"TotoreMexico wrote:

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks this:hi5:

Where you been? You and about 10,000 other Finheaveners feel this way. :wink2:

"adamprez2003 wrote:

You certainly have a point if you are considering what's best for the Dolphins and believe Beck is as good or better than Ryan, Brohm, Flacco, etc..The thing is, this isnt about what's best for the Dolphins per se. This is about what's best for Parcells. Would it have been better for the Dolphins to keep the offensive system in place and keep Cameron for another year? Who cares?

What's best for Parcells is the Phins doing well.

It's easy to rid the building of Cam, Randy and their underlings, but it's much harder to do with players. Getting rid of Cam, Houck, etc does nothing to the team, they aren't assets and they are easily replaced by better candidates. Saying goodbye to Cam and Co. is nothing more than a loss of $$$. Getting rid of players on the otherhand will impact the team. Not only are there cap concerns, but if you give up on a guy like Beck after only 1 year (really, only a handfull of games) then you basically throw that pick out the window. You say "you know what, I don't care what this guy may be able to offer me. I just don't like him because Cam and Randy drafted him, he needs to go.". That isn't how a good football man goes about his business.

Parcells knew what he was getting into when he took this job, he knew what players were here and now they are his assets. Yes there will be a big turnover, but most of that will be on defense and the switch to a 3/4. If Beck had no future here, I don't think that Ireland would reach out to him as KB pointed out.

There is no way Parcells is going to leave any remnants of the Cameron regime here. First the coaching staff and eventually the one or two reminders of the Cameron drafts will be gone. Ted Ginn could be an eventual casualty also although a WR has less face value than a QB.

This isnt about what's right or fair exactly. This is about bringing in "your" guys

Then that would mean so long to Satele, Mauia, Porter, etc. After all, they are Cam and Randy holdivers too. I don't think that Parcells is going to be that petty that he is going to rid a team of its players just because the previous regime drafted them. Why would he make a distinction between "Cam" players and "Saban" players? Or "Wanny" players? Noone on the current roster is a Parcells player, does that mean that they are all on the hotseat?

No doubt Parcells will want to bring in his type of player, but that doesn't mean his type of player isn't already here. ;)

"KB21 wrote:

Also, if Jeff Ireland doesn't like John Beck, why was John Beck one of the first players on the team that he reached out to?

Also, why is the team hiring an offensive coordinator that has worked with Drew Brees, a quarterback John Beck gets compared to a great deal, since the 2002 season?

If you had film on John Beck and film on Matt Ryan, there is no way on this earth that you can watch both and come away with the idea that Matt Ryan is a superior prospect. The only thing he has on Beck is size. Beck has a better arm, is a better decision maker, is a more accurate passer, has better feet in the pocket, and has better overall awareness of the passing game than Matt Ryan.

I understand your logic on this post, and he also reached out to Taylor too. I guess my question is, if the right trade came around do you think that he would not trade away JT since he reached out to him?

If they won't part with Marion Barber, than maybe we could get another starter plus their two first rounders...that would give us THREE potential starters just in the first round, then we could get two more starters in the 2nd round. :ffic:

"like2god wrote:

What's best for Parcells is the Phins doing well.

It's easy to rid the building of Cam, Randy and their underlings, but it's much harder to do with players. Getting rid of Cam, Houck, etc does nothing to the team, they aren't assets and they are easily replaced by better candidates. Saying goodbye to Cam and Co. is nothing more than a loss of $$$. Getting rid of players on the otherhand will impact the team. Not only are there cap concerns, but if you give up on a guy like Beck after only 1 year (really, only a handfull of games) then you basically throw that pick out the window. You say "you know what, I don't care what this guy may be able to offer me. I just don't like him because Cam and Randy drafted him, he needs to go.". That isn't how a good football man goes about his business.

Parcells knew what he was getting into when he took this job, he knew what players were here and now they are his assets. Yes there will be a big turnover, but most of that will be on defense and the switch to a 3/4. If Beck had no future here, I don't think that Ireland would reach out to him as KB pointed out.

Then that would mean so long to Satele, Mauia, Porter, etc. After all, they are Cam and Randy holdivers too. I don't think that Parcells is going to be that petty that he is going to rid a team of its players just because the previous regime drafted them. Why would he make a distinction between "Cam" players and "Saban" players? Or "Wanny" players? Noone on the current roster is a Parcells player, does that mean that they are all on the hotseat?

No doubt Parcells will want to bring in his type of player, but that doesn't mean his type of player isn't already here. ;)

When I'm talking about him getting rid of Beck and possibly Ginn (dont think it will happen but it was written somewhere) it didnt mean Satele. Beck and to some extent Ginn represent Cameron's biggest gamble from a casual fans perspective. We passed on Quinn to get Ginn and took Beck to replace Quinn with the 2nd. That's what the media heads remembver rightly or wrongly about Cameron (wrongly in my book, I never liked Quinn) My point with dumping Beck is he is the greatest reminder of the Cameron regime to the casual fan and if Parcells wants to cut all ties, Beck's head would have to roll. Pure speculation certainly but its a common practice in the NFL for new head coaches to cut ties to existing QBs and bring in their own

"adamprez2003 wrote:

When I'm talking about him getting rid of Beck and possibly Ginn (dont think it will happen but it was written somewhere) it didnt mean Satele. Beck and to some extent Ginn represent Cameron's biggest gamble from a casual fans perspective. We passed on Quinn to get Ginn and took Beck to replace Quinn with the 2nd. That's what the media heads remembver rightly or wrongly about Cameron (wrongly in my book, I never liked Quinn) My point with dumping Beck is he is the greatest reminder of the Cameron regime to the casual fan and if Parcells wants to cut all ties, Beck's head would have to roll. Pure speculation certainly but its a common practice in the NFL for new head coaches to cut ties to existing QBs and bring in their own

And we saw a bit of that with Cam and Culpepper, but I feel that was more of a "player doesn't fit the system" type deal. The same can't really be said for Beck.

I don't think that Parcells is really concerned with what the media will say. And to get rid of a guy to remove Cam's "image"......I think that type of attention to symbolism is best left for newbies, not guys of Parcells stature. Parcells and Co. will make this their team, regardless of who is here. No more pouting from JT, this team belongs to the Tuna.