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Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by #1dolphinsfan, Jan 27, 2008.
That's actually the best point I have heard in regards to having Beck be the starter next year. I wasnt aware of the Carmichael connections. Who knows? It would certainly bode well or at least for Beck if Parcells goes that route. I cant see him goig with Beck but if we're going to run the Coryell hybrid instead of the Erhardt/ Perkins then its possible. Nice point KB
Glad I'm not the only one who thinks this
Well obviously the scouts and observers that are grading prospects up to this point disagree with you since Ryan is projected to go fairly early first round at this point. Nobody projected Beck that high last year. I'm not all that enamoured with Ryan but obviously at this point he is much more highly thought of than Beck. Not sure what my opinion is on the matter although I would take Ryan based on age and size alone, but what do I know I wanted Edwards over Beck last year and got bashed by some of our so called experts.
Where you been? You and about 10,000 other Finheaveners feel this way.
What's best for Parcells is the Phins doing well.
It's easy to rid the building of Cam, Randy and their underlings, but it's much harder to do with players. Getting rid of Cam, Houck, etc does nothing to the team, they aren't assets and they are easily replaced by better candidates. Saying goodbye to Cam and Co. is nothing more than a loss of $$$. Getting rid of players on the otherhand will impact the team. Not only are there cap concerns, but if you give up on a guy like Beck after only 1 year (really, only a handfull of games) then you basically throw that pick out the window. You say "you know what, I don't care what this guy may be able to offer me. I just don't like him because Cam and Randy drafted him, he needs to go.". That isn't how a good football man goes about his business.
Parcells knew what he was getting into when he took this job, he knew what players were here and now they are his assets. Yes there will be a big turnover, but most of that will be on defense and the switch to a 3/4. If Beck had no future here, I don't think that Ireland would reach out to him as KB pointed out.
Then that would mean so long to Satele, Mauia, Porter, etc. After all, they are Cam and Randy holdivers too. I don't think that Parcells is going to be that petty that he is going to rid a team of its players just because the previous regime drafted them. Why would he make a distinction between "Cam" players and "Saban" players? Or "Wanny" players? Noone on the current roster is a Parcells player, does that mean that they are all on the hotseat?
No doubt Parcells will want to bring in his type of player, but that doesn't mean his type of player isn't already here.
I understand your logic on this post, and he also reached out to Taylor too. I guess my question is, if the right trade came around do you think that he would not trade away JT since he reached out to him?
If they won't part with Marion Barber, than maybe we could get another starter plus their two first rounders...that would give us THREE potential starters just in the first round, then we could get two more starters in the 2nd round.
When I'm talking about him getting rid of Beck and possibly Ginn (dont think it will happen but it was written somewhere) it didnt mean Satele. Beck and to some extent Ginn represent Cameron's biggest gamble from a casual fans perspective. We passed on Quinn to get Ginn and took Beck to replace Quinn with the 2nd. That's what the media heads remembver rightly or wrongly about Cameron (wrongly in my book, I never liked Quinn) My point with dumping Beck is he is the greatest reminder of the Cameron regime to the casual fan and if Parcells wants to cut all ties, Beck's head would have to roll. Pure speculation certainly but its a common practice in the NFL for new head coaches to cut ties to existing QBs and bring in their own
And we saw a bit of that with Cam and Culpepper, but I feel that was more of a "player doesn't fit the system" type deal. The same can't really be said for Beck.
I don't think that Parcells is really concerned with what the media will say. And to get rid of a guy to remove Cam's "image"......I think that type of attention to symbolism is best left for newbies, not guys of Parcells stature. Parcells and Co. will make this their team, regardless of who is here. No more pouting from JT, this team belongs to the Tuna.
I think it hinges on how Parcells feels about Beck's potential. If you think he could be the real deal and your QB for the next 7 to 10 years then Parcells will go out of his way to develop him. He's definitely not going to cut off his nose to spite his face. Parcells isnt insane. But if on the other hand, Parcells looks at Beck and doesnt like what he sees, or simply isnt convinced, then that coupled with the Cameron ties would quicken his execution. No matter what, Beck has next season to impress Parcells whether he starts or not. It will be his only chance.
Sorry man...just dont agree on your impression that Parcells and Ireland dont want Beck. Youve by now read what KB had to say about the situation with Carmichael...I think that best sums it up. There is no way we are drafting Matt Ryan. Just isnt gonna happen. There is a better chance of Dante being our starting QB next year..than us signing Ryan..IMO.
But one other thing...
Reading what Ireland had to say last week...at the Senior Bowl..there were two players he went out of his way to say he had a visit with....
Jason Taylor and John Beck. I think that speaks alot.
I also re read the McFadden article...
We wont be getting Marion Barber in that trade.....
I think what he is saying...is that as a RFA...they would make Barber available to anyone on need of a starting RB. Barber is a stud. That team would need to give up a 1 and a 3 to get Barber, which Dallas would then use those picks to sweeten the pot for McFadden. Right now....Dallas' two 1st round picks are to low in the 1st round.
This is the beginning of a downward spiral for Dallas, IMO. Their best personnel influences are now gone. To even consider the idea of trading Marion Barber and giving up a bunch of picks to get Darren McFadden is foolish and shows Jerry's lack of savvy when it comes to making personnel decisions on his own.
And guess what? They have received permission to interview Dave Campo for their secondary coach position. Campo back in Dallas. It seems fitting.
If we traded Ronnie we'd have more leverage in moving out of that pick with Dallas since we'd have a legitimate reason for drafting McFadden, but most would agree that Parcells taking a RB #1 overall is about as likely as him calling Mueller back to direct the draft for us.
If Dallas truly wanted to ensure that they would get McFadden, and if Jones were willing to actually do business with us after the exodus of their front office to ours, I wouldn't be surprised if Jones a) screws us on compensation because we're desperate to move out or b) we're scratching his back for not making waves in robbing his coaching staff.
Either way, if we really do end up making a deal with Dallas, the entire thing would reek of "back alley".
The Cowboys are high if they think someone is going to give them a 1st and 3rd rounder for Barber III. But, hey I'm all for it if they can find someone. Talk to the Jets please
I disagree, the guy is only 23, has a nose for the endzone and will only get better. Teams can only hope and pray that their 1st round RB's will put up those kind of numbers. That's why I don't think that Dallas is foolish enough to part ways with Barber.
Ronnie has no value right now because of the injury.
Well none of the playoff teams would need him so you're looking at giving up a 20th overall or better. Mendenhall or Stewart should be available past the 10th. Maybe Arizona or Cleveland but I'm having a hard time figuring who would make this signing
If Barber is part of the deal, and we have to compromise by backing off the actual draft point system to get a deal done. Then Dallas can come back and say they compromised by switching Barber from a 1st and 3rd to just a 2nd. Then we get both Dallas 1st round picks, Barber, potentially his new contract, and then whatever else we can negotiate out this shady deal.
donest matter dude we got shea last year and we thought it was 100% quinn. ppl need to stop assuming things b/c of a coaching hire.
The Lions and Texans might be interested.
Listen, I still think this whole thing is a pile of bunk.........
.......but that hasn't stopped me from thinking of the possibilities.
I never said we would do it, I'm just saying we'd have more leverage if we did it. As well, his latest injury just points to the reality that the guy can't last a full year. I think he'd have a better chance next year if Bobby Jackson were still around, but the reality is Ronnie having a pro bowl year in 2008 isn't as likely as his season being cut short because of injury, so the fact remains, we're probably not going to get a lot for him regardless. I don't think it would happen, but considering Parcells commited to Ricky and Jesse, and how desperate he is to move out of that #1 spot, departing with Ronnie for the sake of draft picks isn't out of the question.
When did he commit to Chatman? Read that his agent said Parcells reached out to them, but has anything else come of it?
I don't remember the Phins commiting to Chatman, I remember a story saying that they reached out to his agent, but I'm not sure if that was before or after Parcells was brought on board.
Ronnie isn't injury prone, so I'm not worried about him.
Talk to TB. They just may have lost the keys to their "Caddy". He has some serious knee damage and it doesn't sound good for his football future, right now.
One more thing, in addition to KB's point about Carmichael and the above quote from Ireland. Parcells and Ireland hired David Lee BEFORE Sparano and the Brian Gaine, personnel scout. The only reason to hire him them is to work with Beck as much as possible and as quickly as possible. If they just wanted to evaluate Beck, he would have been hired at the same time as, or after, the head coach and personnel scout.
True, but you shoot for the moon and then negotiate down if you have to. In the end it probably makes it a bit easier to get a higher 1st round pick if someone is interested.
need i say more?
thats a pretty cool looking Pick lol i would much rather be like the 2007 Coboys rather then the 2007 Dolphins
just some [more nice info for you guys.
I woudlnt mind getting barber then trading him for a late 1st or an early to mid 2nd or even keeping him.
with the 22 and 28 we can go so many ways. Your talking about maybe Cromartie at 28, WIlliams the LT there, Hardy, etc etc.
Thats the 22nd, 28th, 32nd, 56th ( i believe is what the SD one is) then the next pick which is like 5 picks after which is the last of the 2nd (technically our 3rd rounder). Not bad, not bad. If they can get a trade done for the 1st and 3rd, more picks for us baby or maybe even becomes a pick lower then 20 then we get the (just a number out there for you) the 14th pick and the 22nd instead of 22nd and 28th.
Whats his name did good replacing him but you're right that makes alittle more sense. See I dont see a team with a top 20 doing this but a playoff team with a lowpick might be enticed to basically throw away a 1st and 3rd for a sure thing
I would give up our 1st to the Cowboys if we could get Marion Barber, their two picks in Round 1 in 2008, their second round pick in 2008 and their 1st and 3rd round picks in 2009.
I agree, and I wonder how infatuated he'd be with McFadden if he didn't play for Arkansas.
I would do the trade ESPN mentions in a heartbeat. Two firsts, two seconds, and Marion Barber? Hell yeah!
Why? Simple! Trades.
Trade one of the firsts to Cleveland for Derek Anderson.
Trade one of the seconds to Cincinnati for Chad Johnson.
Use Barber and Ronnie in the backfield, Anderson at QB, and Johnson, Booker, and Ginn at receiver and you've got one hell of an offense.
Use our remaining first and second on defense, possibly the third too, and use some free agent cash to fortify the defense...
I'd rather try to take the Dallas TE instead of Barber