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Connor Barwin

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Xeticus, Mar 20, 2009.

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  1. Xeticus

    Xeticus Junior Member

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    Last year around this time there was this tall, athletic guy. He didn't have as much experience as people wanted. He had a lot of talent though and he had a lot of buzz coming out of the senior bowl and the combine. His name was Joe Flacco. Some people thought because of how raw he was and inexperienced he would go 2nd or 3rd round.I predicted then that he would probably creep into the 1st round which is what he did.

    Connor Barwin is this year's Joe Flacco. A former tight end who converted to de his final year he ended leading the Big East in sacks. His numbers included 14½ tackles for loss, 11 sacks and six pass breakups. That's in his first season on defense. At the combine he ran a 4.66. At his pro day he got his time down to 4.48 and a 2nd try at 4.52. He is fast, athletic and can play tight end or lb in the 3-4. He also could probably play de in the 4-3 in addition to being a former college basketball player. This guy just screams athletic talent. Because of his versatility he's being compared to Mike Vrabel.

    Now the trifecta is definitely interested in him. They talked to him at the combine, I believe they went to his pro-day and I know they scheduled a private workout with him. Simon Clancy who writes for the sun-sentinel and who many know as our beloved draftnik Boomer is very big on Connor.

    I think this guy is a first round talent. Sports Illustrated agrees. I hope that if he is available at 25 that we don't hesitate to take him. He will not be there in the 2nd round.

    Here is the link to the Sports Illustrated article. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/football/nfl/03/20/riser.sliders/
    Here is the link to Boomer's interview with Connor Barwin.
    http://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com/spo...log/2009/02/london_calling_draft_winds_5.html

    I would feel very comfortable taking him at 25. And if we don't take him and he drops to the 2nd round it'd be insane to not get him. Whichever teams gets him is getting a hell of a player. Anyway those are my thoughts on the matter. Comment away.
     
  2. The Aqua Crush

    The Aqua Crush New Member

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    HIs stock is rising from what some outlets are reporting. I like what i've seen from him. Would be happy to take him at 25, if he still on the board.
     
  3. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I did a similar thread in the Club forum.
    IMO he's the top Rush LB in the draft with Team Captain, All Pro, and potential HOF written all over him. ;)

    A lot of people see him as a risk b/c he's only played 1 year DE, but that's one of the very reasons I'm extremely high on him. He's proven that he can make a position change and dominate at it very quicky. It took him all but one offseason to do so. LOL.

    Add to that, that all the rush LBs except for Sintim will be making a position change, he has proven to me that he was shortest learning curve out of all of them.

    Abstract intangibles (leadership, heart, desire to win and be the best, motor, character, etc) are TOP NOTCH and unparalled in my book.
     
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  4. Xeticus

    Xeticus Junior Member

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    It's nice to see people are reading this and commenting. Everything i see about this kid screams winner to me. I'm pretty excited about our getting him.
     
  5. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

    Barwin might be a good pick, especially considering his versatility. But, I think he's a bit of a reach at #25. He should be there for us to consider in the 2nd round.

    G
     
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  6. Xeticus

    Xeticus Junior Member

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    After his pro day his numbers are all over the internet. He's getting some serious hype. I'm pretty sure he's going to be gone in the first round. I'd be thrilled to be wrong though.
     
  7. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

    That's just it. I think you may be picking up on a lot of internet hype. Most of the mocks/projections I have seen to date do not have him coming off the board in the first round.

    Of course, come draft day all bets are off. ;)
     
  8. Onehondo

    Onehondo Senior Member Club Member

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    I read somewhere today that he is on New Englands radar and they are really interested in taking him. I hope we do take him at 25 because I have a hunch he is going to be a good one and will be gone off the board somewhere in the first round.
     
  9. Xeticus

    Xeticus Junior Member

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    At the combine he ran a 40 yard 4.66 the 2nd best time for his position. At his pro day he blew those numbers away. He's 6'4" and 256 lbs. With his size and speed, and his production last year the numbers I think dictate that someone will take a chance on him. Especially a team looking to improve their linebacking corps. Check this article on his pro day at patriots insider. Yes there's a lot of internet hype but his workout numbers are that impressive. Here's the article. http://nwe.scout.com/a.z?s=121&p=2&c=849052
     
  10. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    I really hate how New England managed to snag that early second. You know they will take someone we have been looking hard at.
     
  11. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    What the analysts think have nothing to do with what the scouts/coaches see, and we'll never see their big boards to find out. LOL. They could care less where the draftnik community has someone.

    Look at Jerod Mayo....or every WR last year. ;)

    If you guys want someone who really seems to assess players/talent like a top FO, then pay $9.99 to join TheHuddleReport.com. Their senior analyst, Drew Boylehart, watches a ton of film and calls it like he sees it. He has the ability to really look into a player for much more than overall talent. He sees things that no one else sees...and a lot of aspects you would never even think of. He says he can see into a players soul, and I totally believe him.

    You see a lot of desparity around February between mainstream analysts and his player rankings/ assessment....and by end March the curve seems to coincedentally and congruently shift toward how he values a player as each of his player profiles come out. He spends a lot of time evaluating a player through out their career, so it takes some time for his profiles to be released.
    My point to all of this....is some of these gems like Connor don't show up on the radar till weeks before the draft, after word has had a chance to spread.
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
  12. StLouisFinFan

    StLouisFinFan New Member

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    Or....one could visit Simon Clancy's FREE breakdown of Connor Barwin in his week 5 draftwinds breakdown on the Sun Sentinel. He even interviewed him after having watched every snap he's taken.

    Barwin is a special talent that I hope continues to be overlooked. If we could get him with 2a or 2b, I'd be elated. He's got great hands and explosiveness. Those are the two things I look for in a pass rushing linebacker, and he's got it in spades.
     
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  13. Xeticus

    Xeticus Junior Member

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    I posted the link to Boomer's breakdown and interview with Connor Barwin in my original post.
     
  14. Xeticus

    Xeticus Junior Member

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    This is funny. I'm really interested in this kid so I've been reading up on him and teams that might be interested in him. The patriots are bringing him in for a workout and patriots fans are chanting on one of their sites "Connor F***ing Barwin." They seem to be really high on him. It's insane to think about but he might be gone at 23 before we even sniff him. A couple months ago no one had ever heard of him now he might be going to NE in the first round.
     
  15. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I've had him in the 1st round for 3 months and to the Pats at 23 for half of it.....and people laughed at me! LOL. I really feel he is a top 10 talent, and if NE is going to take him, then I hope the Packers take him at 9 first :D
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
  16. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Just curious, why do you like English and Matthews better? English is a projection from a 4-3 DE, same as Barwin and isn't as athletic or versatile as Barwin. Matthews did less in his one season as a starter than Barwin did, and Clay was surrounded by a lot more talent.
     
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  17. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I agree. Drew's profiles are worth the subscription price to that site. Don't say his name too loud around here though, some guys still like to hammer him because he suggested in 2004 before the draft that Carey would make a good center. That one comment is enough for some guys to completely disregard the guy's opinions forever. Just like some who will disregard Russ Lande forever just because he likes Sanchez better than Stafford and had him #1 over in his top 99 for a while.
    The thing of it is, EVERYONE makes mistakes when it comes to analyzing college players before a draft. But, some who do so, only want to point out other people's missed calls. No draft analyst is always correct, whether they work for an NFL team or post on a web site.
     
  18. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Totally agree with all of that.
    The Pats seem to make a lot of picks that go against conventional wisdom. Most were surprised by the Mayo pick last year and also the Logan Mankins pick a few years ago. The thing to me is though, when the Pats make a surprise early pick, it usually pans out.
     
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  19. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Everyone but Sintim will have to make the switch, including Mathews. The only thing Connor's 1 year tells me regarding the entire bunch is that he can learn a new position pretty damn fast! LOL. :yes: That's the guy I want! You can tack a question mark onto everyone else on that list as to how much they can learn in 1 year b/c we don't know how long it took them to learn what they know now in order to make them as good as they are now.

    If Mathews, for instance, will be a furure impact player.....but it takes him 5 years to get there, then I don't want him when I know Barwin makes a quick transition. This "one year" for Barwin is actually a confidence builder when drafting him, not a detractant. :wink2:
     
  20. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I've posted this a few times... but has anyone gone back to the 2nd half of the Senior Bowl to watch the series when Barwin is at TE going head to head against Mathews? Barwin absolutely manhandled him. There is no way that I take Clay over Connor! :no: LOL.
     
  21. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Drew is awesome! He sees things in more than just football talent. I sent him my 1st round grade Connor Barwin profile to him back in January before he released his own.... originally he thought he was a 3rd rounder before he had a chance to really break down his film. Then after he broke down Barwin's game, he changed his mind to absolute 1st rounder through and through.... said he reminded him of Ted Hendricks. Good comparison I think. :wink2:

    We'll never know about Carey.... who knows- if they transitioned him to center like Drew said, maybe right now he is holding his own against Wilkford and Jenkins and is a frequent visitor to Hawaii the end of every season. The last I was aware, Vernon hasn't quite lived up to the expectations of his draft status. LOL. SHHH. After all, the Ravens did the same thing with Jason Brown... and that was after Drew mentioned moving Carey in order to become the new wave of dominant centers. I guess his vision about the future of massive, mauling centers was right all along. LOL.
     
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  22. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Matthews has spent time in a 3-4 alignment as a strong-side linebacker. USC plays a hybrid 3-4/4-3 and he's part of the rotation there. Not as much as Sintim but he's played some.
     
  23. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Good point. I agree...but I was more referring to being an every down started in that position along with all the reps it brings. ;)
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
  24. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Alen....at least getting some reps is better than none, right.... And will no doubt help shorten his transition some IMO ;)
    Posted via Mobile Device
     
  25. Xeticus

    Xeticus Junior Member

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    There are a couple of things I like about Barwin. His insanely good production last season. And his freakish numbers at the combine and his pro day. I'm not a big fan of just looking at the combine numbers. But a guy who can come up with 11 sacks his first season playing defense really impresses me. He might not have the experience but he has good production and might be the best pure athlete available at LB. Imagine what our coaching staff could do with such a talented guy?
     
  26. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Totally agree.
    DJ made a good point in another post when I said that I thought Barwin is "Zach Thomas".... but only taller, faster, and more athletic. I agree DJ, maybe we should move Connor to ILB where he can use his insane instincts and ability to read a QB when his field of vision is directly in front of him. After all, despite all his athletic ability/Combine numbers, it's his instincts that are the best part of his game. Put him on the right, and you impede his view of the QB's eyes.... put him on the left and he can only disrupt plays/passes to his side.... put him in the middle and he can be a menace in every direction!

    If the only knock on Barwin is being slightly tight in the hips, then put him at insidebacker where he can excel both laterally or straight ahead. After all, he positions himself extremely effectively with very little wasted movements. BBall drills probably helped in that regard a bit. His arms are long, coupled with his vertical will probably disrupt a ton of passes when he can see the QB and diagnose the play without actually having a tackle on him at all times as he seems to dominate when he's in space. I guarantee that teams would be running very few screens on us, and he would take away dump offs and short/ intermediate routes across the middle like Nnamdi shuts down corners...and with Connor on the field- broken plays should stay broken.

    The reason we won 11 games last year was due to a great turnover margin. If we wan't to keep that going, then we need a big time playmaker in the middle to make up for Channing.
     
  27. Xeticus

    Xeticus Junior Member

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    Here's an awesome write up about Connor Barwin from scout.com Anyone who has doubts that he's a first round pick should read this. There's no way that this guy is lasting to the 2nd round. Check it out. http://pit.scout.com/a.z?s=68&p=2&c=851822
     
  28. Big Red

    Big Red Long Lasting Freshness

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    On PATH TO THE DRAFT last week Charlie Casserly said Barwin is too raw of a player to take in the 1st round. I hope most GMs are thinking likewise and the Dolphins have a shot at Barwin in the 2nd round.

    I would be cool with taking him in the 1st round too. However I would love it if we could get a CB, WR, ILB, or NT in the 1st round and still get Barwin at #44.
     
  29. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Agree with you there.

    Another name that I think won't have a difficult time transitioning to the weakside spot in a 3-4 alignment is Georgia Tech's Michael Johnson. I know many don't like him and I'm not the biggest fan of his when you put everything together but when it comes to talent, he's top notch. He's also very fluid for a man his height. I think he's a guy who needs to pack on quite a bit of weight though because he gets jarred back by stronger OT's, receivers and running backs. He's at 266 now but he's lacking the strength in the upper body IMO. At times, you'll see him throw down Tackles such as he did against Ciron Black and then you'll see him get thrown around like he's a rag doll. Nevertheless, that's a guy, when motivated, can be very good. Question is, when is he motivated? Its a weekly issue with him.
     
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  30. Xeticus

    Xeticus Junior Member

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    I'm totally against picking inconsistent and unmotivated players high. That's how you end up with a Vernon Gholston situation like they have in New York. Guy is a workout warrior with all the talent in the world but once he made it to the NFL he just couldn't get it together. This is why i like Barwin so much. He's freakishly gifted and when he had an opportunity he took it. Same reason i like Bess and Camarillo. They are not as gifted but they are real team players and make the most of their opportunities. I think Barwin fits with what we're trying to build here. He's smart, talented, versatile and a team player. You want him to play DE or LB sure. You want him to play TE he'll do it. He just wants to win and has the talent to back up that drive. Barwin at #25 for me.

    There's a good chance that Barwin's not available then. We still have great options such as maybe Sintim, Clay Matthews or Sean Smith. Whatever we get I'm sure our defense is going to be nastier this year.
     
  31. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    I'm not campaigning for the selection of Michael Johnson; I was merely saying that he is a guy who could make the transition as an weak side linebacker in a 3-4 alignment.
     
  32. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I completely agree with you on Johnson...about all of it including not being one of his biggest fans.
    I feel he has the talent to be a #1 overall pick to Detroit, but hasn't lived up to the bill. Is that unaccurate?

    IMO, if most teams also feel he is a top talent yet he's on the board at 25.... that means that about a dozen teams passed on him for a reason. If that's the case, I don't want him. Is this wrong logic? LOL.
     
  33. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    IMO, that's inaccurate. We are not talking about a great college football player and a guy that dominated at his level of competition. Johnson flashed potential all over the place but didn't do it on a consistent basis. He's still not a guy whose filled out his frame in my opinion and I still don't think he sets the edge very well. He's OK at it but not great. I'm sure some will disagree with me. He's got tremendous potential and could be a Julius Peppers clone early in his career, if he hits the weight room hard and further expands his game. However, he can also be a complete flop due to motivational issues. IMO, the talent and potential is worthy of a top ten pick but not number one. As you can tell, I'm on the fence with him. Love what he can bring but man he has some issues. And next year, we will likely see the same thing with Ole Miss's freak of nature Greg Hardy; a player that I absolutely LOVE but he's got many issues. Getting a bit off-topic here but next year, there's going to be a nice group of conversion players too and one that could be next years Lawrence Sidbury is James Ruffin of Northern Iowa.

    I think its a wrong logic. The reason is because those other teams are looking at several different things then you are. They have different needs, different set of standards for a character evaluation (i.e. Atlanta and Cincinnati), different thoughts on the player and their thoughts on how the coaches can relate to the player as well as possibly turn his team around. Some teams may feel that they can't change his habits while a team like the Dolphins for example may think that they can turn Johnson around by being strict and harder on him. There's many factors that come into play and if you base your decisions off of what someone else thought, you won't be successful when it comes to drafting because you want to form your own opinion on the prospect and how he relates to your team, not others.
     
  34. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    Thats all that I was looking for. Top 10 will suffice for my argument. LOL. I'm not trying to make a case that he should be #1. Far from the opposite. :wink2: I was just trying to establish first that he has greater talent/potential then the #25 pick would suggest. Personally, I wouldn't draft him with our 2nd round pick.


    I'm not worrying about what Miami feels they can do with him. LOL. You're reading too much into where I was going with this. If a player's a top 10 talent, you don't get passed over for someone less talented unless there is a reason. That was my point. Take Orakpo- he's a top 10 DE/OLB talent. What are the chances he lasts till Miami? None. There are too many teams who need DE/OLB this draft to let him fall that far. That's the same thing I'm saying about Johnson. If you're a top 10 talent and teams who need a DE/OLB like KC, Cleveland, Oakland, GB, San Fran, Buffalo, Denver, Houston, Chicago, Detroit, and NE all pass on a Top 10 talent.... then that throws up a red flag IMO. That means that 11 teams passed on him, some of which will have drafted a lesser talented DE/OLB instead of Michael.
     
  35. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    I'd take him in the second round if I needed a weak side rusher.

    Gotcha.

    I think it goes back to what I was saying, in terms of teams passing him up or selecting him based off the character evaluation. If a team thinks they can turn the guy around, he could go early. If they don't, then they won't select him. They believe that he won't change much and want to go with a safer pick. Personally, I'd consider taking him at #25 because of the player he is. I'd consider it.
     
  36. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    True, however there is a point reached where a Front Office simply must believe in their internal player evluations, it's quite simple to take "numbers" players, but the plain fact is the difference in actual numbers is usually very small.

    Compare Sintim to Maybin for example, add Barwin into the mix and the spread is usually less then 5% in any individual drill "he ran a 4.78 v a 4.69 for the other guy" at some point a organization is either a slave to the numbers (and countless busts have been based solely on numbers) or they have an eye for talent.

    Look at the teams picking in the top 10 this year, the majority consistently pick in the top 10, there is a reason for that ToddsPhins.
     
  37. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I completely agree with part of what you say about forming your own opinions. The other part is where we differ. If 11 teams pass on a guy who has the potential to go top 10, then that's confirming the same thing that I already feel about him- that he's a risk. I don't base my decision on what they do or don't do, but it helps strengthen my belief if a handfull of other evaluators feel the same way. I know a lot of coaches have a God complex and feel they can change players, but personally I'd never take that approach with a 1st round player... there's still an entire draft of talented players left whom I wouldn't have to worry about changing habits with.
     
  38. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    I agree with you when it comes to changing a players habits. I think its very difficult to do that. However, some don't.
     
  39. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    I completely understand what you're saying Padre. People are reading too deeply into my belief and over analizing it. .... so I'm just going to stop with the subject. LOL.
     
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  40. ToddsPhins

    ToddsPhins Banned

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    That's all I was really referring to... that if a top 10 talent who has some question marks about his game lasts till #25 when there are a ton of teams who need a top pass rusher, then it would lead me to believe that they feel the same way that I do- that he is a risk. Hence if that many teams feel he is a risk, then I don't want him at 25 b/c I'm not into wanting to change players habits, even if he is a top 10 talent.

    Over the course of 10 years I'd rather not take players I'd have to worry about changing and end up with 50 solid players but no superstars... than thinking I can change players and end up with 25 solid players, 10 stars, and 15 busts. LOL.
     

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