Commissioners Office VETOED Manny to FLA

by the way....the Marlins only had the 6th highest payroll in 1997 and no where near that in 2003, it was more like the 12th or 13th highest.

This line of thinking has just a lot jealousy in it......teams don't buy WS titles, they earn them, and never forget that

 

hate the ownership but don't hate the team.....

 

That is ownership, you shouldn't hate the team because of that. Your hatred is misplaced.

 

Ease up on the D-backs bro.

They did indeed have a much larger Salary when they won the Title than they do now, albeit a FAR CRY from that of the Redsox, Spanks, Cubs and Dodgers.

Just for the record, they won the NL West last year, and have lead it this entire year while having the 4th lowest Payroll in the majors And that is because they have almost comletely gotten there (With the exceptsinos of Dan Haren, Eric Byrnes and now Adam Dunn) through the draft

 

I disagree, in 2006 and 2008 Loria failed a team that had a shot. He brought in no one in 2006 and in 2008 brought in a lightly used (so far) left handed reliever. That is it.....

The FO did nothing even though the glaring need is catcher and a couple of clutch bats.

 

Don't be anal bro, this thread, as many others, goes off topic. Geeeeeesh

Ultimately this thread is about Loria and his payroll practices. Because the trade was vetoed because instead of trading for a long-term high priced player, he was trading for a 2 month rental and 2 compensatory pics. That is the real topic here.

 

This makes zero sense. Teams trade for rentals all the time. Because he comes two compensation picks its vetoed?

Then why was CC approved? Brewers have zero intention of resigning him so they're working him like a mule.

Makes no sense.

 

If they had something they would be up here by now. 4 years in the minors in our system, means you need to show in the Bigs or be a hasbeen. If they had stuff for the big leagues why did Van den Hurk & Badenhop get looks before them ? I just don't understand why anyone would look at Ryan Tucker and see anything other than BUST. 8.00+ ERA in his look this year ? Are you kidding ? That is one of our best prospects ? Dude, I guess I am just too much of an average Joe fan, but the dude stunk the place up and I am glad he is gone and back down on the farm.....far far far away from a team trying to win a division.

I know you are an advocate of our minor league teams, but dude, to me, an average fan it doesn't look like we have too much to get excited about. All the players we got in the Cabrera and Willis trade have been crapola so far. Miller is a 5 run inning waiting to happen, Badenhop just plain stinks, and Rabelo is not major league catching material....not even close. Camron Maybin may end up being a decent player, but he hasn't turned the world on fire.....he wasn't even in the Futures game this year.

 

This is why Loria just shouldn't be in this business. If he can't afford it, get the heck out. Sell to someone with deep enough pockets. Unless he does that, this franchise will continue to drift in the wind.

 

I think it has to do with the fact that after they won the title in '97, they basically traded away the whole team.

I think the term 'buying championships' is a little overused nowadays. The Yankees have had the highest payroll in baseball for years and haven't won a title since 2000. Teams like the Mets, Red Sox, and Tigers have high payrolls too and the Sox missed the playoffs in '06, the Mets did last year and the Tigers didn't make it in '07 and probably not this year.

Maybe it's just me but I'd rather have my team spend money and put the best product on the field that they can.

 

This is the $ 640,000,000 question (that is about the cost of the new stadium).

A bigger question is why did Selig send Loria to South Fla, instead of with his old franchise the Expos to Washington.

Of course we know the answer to that.....this franchise & market, are not potentially as fertile as the Washington market with about 3,000,000 more fans (Washington metro area is around 8 million to South Fla's 5,000,000). Selig didn't want the fractious Loria, and his weasel step-son Samson in Washington to screw up the ex-Expos chances of getting a new stadium there. This was smaller less lucrative market, and in the end the fanbase here got screwed by Selig, because its all about the Benjamins, and more could be had in Washington than in South Fla.

Does anyone else see this ???

 

See my last post......

 

And yes he does have EVERYTHING to do with it, because of his payroll policies.

 

And as I pointed out the Marlins had but the 6th largest in 1997 and a much lower one in 2003. How did the Marlins "buy" a World Series ?

The Marlins, in a much tougher division, have led, or been 2nd or 3rd in the NL East all year. And by the way, have won 6 of 7 against the Diamondbacks this year. Can't you give the Marlins some credit too bro ?

 

But dude you are contradicting yourself in your post. On one hand you claim the Marlins bought a World Series, yet then you say no one can buy one because the Yankees have had the highest payroll for years and not won since 2000.



Which one is it ?????



Do you see why I posted earlier, that no one can buy a World Series, you have to earn it.

 

His payroll policy was apparently conducive to a trade, so no, Loria has nothing to do with this. What, getting some minor league prospect suddenly makes the Manny deal workable in Selig's warped mind, because it means Loria will have another check to sign after this year? Come on.

I think the main point here is that Selig doesn't care about the Florida market. "What Florida market?" some people in this thread may ask. Simple: the one Selig was supposed to help develop. Instead he actively undermines it and then wonders where the money is.

 

I wonder if Selig did it just to spite Loria then ? Because he maybe feels Loria has not done everything he could to build up the active fanbase ?

 

Desides you will never get an argument from me about this, I agree 2,000,000 % !!! Selig is to blame as is Loria, and only this past year did Selig finally send DuPuy to So Fla to help negotiate the stadium deal, a deal Loria was told (after it was negotiated) to accept or get out of baseball. (this coming from someone who says they are insiders....it does make sense too).

By the way, people who aren't in the know, would be surprised to know that the Marlins, while not having great crowds at games (in person) rank as the 13th TV market for baseball. Only 12 other teams have better TV ratings than the Marlins, which is what baseball is seeing when the believe this is a market that can succeed given the new stadium and a stable revenue for the ownership that will derive.

The market IS THERE, it just needs the right elements to develop it, and I am afraid that Loria is not part of that equation. Unfortunately he is here for the time being. If the stadium gets built, I would think Selig will demand he use some of that revenue or he will step in and get Loria out. I think that is part of the deal the City/County negotiated with MLB for the stadium, and they didn't let Loria know this until it was all signed, sealed and (mostly) delivered.....until Norman Brahman filed his little lawsuit......that Dipwad

 

I was making two different points in that post so I wasn't contradicting myself.

First point about the Marlins buying a title: I never said the Marlins bought a World Series, I was responding to your question as to why the Marlins get accused of buying a WS yet teams like the Sox, Yanks, White Sox etc don't. My feeling on the matter is that the Marlins get accused of buying a title simply because as soon as they won the title the next year they traded away a lot of the key veterans because Huizenga claimed eventhough the team won they still lost money.

My 2nd point about the payroll thing was that people overuse the term buying a championship. As soon as a team wins a championship all of the haters brush it off saying "congrats you had to buy a title" etc. I was simply stating that yes having a big payroll certainly helps but it doesn't guarantee you anything.

 

Oh, I do. Go the the Marlins thread bro, much love there coming from me...even though the D-backs OBVIOUSLY got jobbed last night

 

These guys were drafted as high schoolers. Those pitchers literally just turned 21. That is extremely extremely unfair to label them has beens at 21. Most 21 year olds are in the minor leagues. Burke and Rick were called up before them to protect them. Theyre obviously not ready. Just look at Tucker. He got lit up. As he should have been as a 21 year old with 7 starts above Single A ball.

Maybin hitting over .300 since May with a .400 OBP as one of the youngest players in AA is pretty special to me. He was voted as a starter in the AA ASG. And participated in the Futures game in 2006. But the futures game isnt anything more than side show. Hell, Rick VandenHurk was selected in it one year.

 

That sounds like Selig has serious immaturity issues then.

 

If only we could get some of this discussion in the Marlins thread. It would actually be relevant there. Hint, hint.

 

Can't you cut and paste ?

 

They definetly are not following the principles of 'Moneyball'. This franchise has always drafted high schoolers high. Always. The only college pitchers we've drafted high, Jason Vargas and Taylor Tankersly, completely bombed. To me, you sound like a fan who wants immediate returns from the draft but that just doesnt happen very often. And you shouldnt draft for it. Thats a major reason why Andrew Miller is where he is right now, but I'll talk more about that later.

You have to be patient in drafting high school players. They take a long time to develop but that doesnt mean you shouldnt draft them. Do me a favor and go read through Moneyball again. Go see how how many of Beane's major league ready collegiate's are still in baseball. Then look at the names Mr. Bean was laughing at everyone for taking. Names like Scott Kasmir, Prince Feilder, Denard Span, Willy Tavares, Jeremy Guthrie, etc.

The fact is, there is an equal chance for both collegiate and high school players to make it in the major leagues, the main difference between the two is that collegiate players reach the majors faster but high schoolers are more likely to become stars.

Kyle Skipworth is at most 6 years away. Not atleast. 3 solid seasons out of Mr. Skipworth and he's up. He'll destroy Geensboro next year, and then his first real test will come in Jupiter. If he doesnt completely bomb, he'll go to Carolina where his odds of succeeding are much greater (If he's for real.) And then up in 2012. Now injuries and such could set him back a year or so but 6 years is pushing it.

As for catcher, until then we'll make do. John Baker has been a decent surprise and could be the guy until Skip is ready, but who knows by then.

The FO tried very hard to get a catcher. He offered several of our bullpen arms and minor league arms to Dombrowski for Pudge but they were dead set on Farnesworth. Not Bienfests' fault.

They inquired about Texas' plethora of catchers but they wanted Volstad + more for even Gerald Laird. Not Bienfests' fault.

He's going to get a call up, but you make absolutely nothing of it. Zero. September is filled with guys who struggled mightily and went on to become stars and then guys who completely exploded but were only average (See: Mike Jacobs.)

Andrew Miller was not ready. At all. And you can thank Scott Boras for that. He was drafted last year! 2007! But Scott Boras insisted on Major League contract so the Tigers were forced to rush him. As long as his confidence isn't lost, he will be a naty one. There was flashes of it this year. But he's not ready. Thanks Mr. Boras.

 

Scott Boras is a bane for all of baseball for sure. If that was the case then the man should be fired immediately by Miller.

As for the High Schoolers, maybe I am too impatient, but I just don't think this franchise can survive without a winning product soon, and drafting for so far in the future can't help save the team now.

So what are we to make of the run they took this year ? Are we to prepare for a run next year ? If so, we need more than Bake as our catcher. We have to get a legit MLB catcher. Its such a glaring hole in the team, it can't go not being cleared up. To me this should be priority # 1 this off-season. I am surmising will we lose Hermida, Uggla and Willingham as well as Jacobs so almost half of next years lineup will be new.

This is one of the reasons, locals here in Miami, just can't get into the Marlins, they just don't want to get attached to players, because they believe they will be gone in an instant. The stability here is at a zero level, and that affects all but the die-hard fans like you & I.