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Colin Kaepernick the pick?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by UCF FINatic, Apr 27, 2011.

  1. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    Anal rape Ewok Lives again!...
     
  2. Pandarilla

    Pandarilla Purist Emeritus

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    BTW-Drafting Kaepernik #15 is a worse idea than the human centipad...

    [video=youtube;nYLThSw9DrA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYLThSw9DrA[/video]
     
  3. BuckeyeKing

    BuckeyeKing Wolves DYNASTY!!!!

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    You'll be back ;)
     
  4. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    Kaepernick??? Nevada? Really????????

    I mean, and of this this is my uneducated humble opinion, but who does Nevada play during the season anyhow? How many hardcore battle tested games was Kaepernick subjected to excel in?

    Call me dumb, uneducated, ignorant, etc, but it seems to me and of course I am biased as a Gators fan, the SEC is THE "NFL" of college football and for Ryan Mallet to have the career at Arkansas that he did playing in the toughest conference in college football, that Mallet is the far better choice than Kaepernick.

    Ok, you hardcore, college football guru's can set me straight if I'm wrong, but keep in mind, I follow college football far less than I do the NFL, so do so informatively please.
     
  5. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    I'm going to take a wild guess and say that it will be Ingram in a trade down. The whole can't get a running back into a full-time system idea is nonsense, sure you may have someone else take 5 carries and someone else take 5 more from Ingram but the guy is a 25 carry back. You'll get ten years of production out of the 21 year old Ingram. He has the burst, acceleration, power, pass catching, and pass blocking ability to be an every down guy no matter what you do. He's just a really good football player that years ago would have been picked far higher. They'll sign a LG in free agency, TE in the 2nd, draft a WR in the 4th, perhaps a big play RB in the third round and roll with that group. It'll be an excellent offensive upgrade without spending an overwhelming amount.

    I just think Ingram is too good of a pick. They'll be forced to take him in the late first though because New England would likely take him otherwise.
     
  6. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    At the risk of sounding like a Colin Kaepernick supporter, I'm going to point out a few things that may actually shorten the learning curve he will have in the NFL. There are those in the media that are stating Colin Kaepernick is going to face a major adjustment in going from the pistol formation (or offense, whichever you want to call it) to a more conventional NFL offense. Jon Gruden recently made comments about it being difficult to look at Kaepernick in the pistol and tell whether he is going to translate to the NFL. I like Jon Gruden, but with all due respect to him, there is a reason he has never developed a young quarterback in his NFL career. His successes as a coach have come with two veteran quarterbacks in Rich Gannon and Brad Johnson. Here's the thing about the pistol offense that will help Colin Kaepernick in his adjustment to the NFL. This is something I have pointed out in the past, and DJ can back me up on this. He has noticed me say this. The pass drops in the pistol offense is a lot closer to what he will do in the NFL than the pass drops from the traditional spread offenses and spread option offenses. In the pistol offense, when he does a straight drop back, he has to show footwork and he has to get good depth on his drops. He is already doing what he will do when taking a snap from center on his drop, only he is getting the snap at 4.5 yards and a three step drop is getting him to a 9 foot depth whereas a 5 step drop from under center gets him to that depth. To me, that alone means that you aren't going to have to work that much with him on his drops from under center. The footwork may need to be tightened up a bit, but overall, he's much farther along from this standpoint than either Cam Newton, Blaine Gabbert, or Andy Dalton are. He's not quite to the point that Ryan Mallett, Christian Ponder, Ricky Stanzi, and TJ Yates are at though.

    The second thing that will help him is the fact that in pure drop back situations, the passing game in the pistol is a progression read based system. He has been asked to make presnap reads and then go through his progressions on the drop. There are a few times where he does a great job of anticipating his throws when he drops back as well. So, Colin is a guy that you are not going to have to teach him progression reads from the ground up. Compare that to Cam Newton, who has basically been in a one read and run offense at Auburn and isn't asked to make many presnap reads or go through progressions. You can compare that to Blaine Gabbert as well, who does make presnap reads but then gets the ball out quickly after the snap. Gabbert sets up in the shot gun deeper than every other quarterback in this draft. He is mostly a catch, turn, and throw guy, but he is also a guy that will bail on the pocket when his first read isn't there. Andy Dalton is a catch and throw guy. He makes the presnap read, and the large majority of his pass plays are designed to get the ball out quick. I do not think he is going to translate well to the NFL.

    The downside of Colin Kaepernick is that maybe a third of his total pass attempts came in pure drop back situations. Chris Ault did a lot of movement passes with him where he rolled him away from the pressure and gave him half field reads to work with. This means that even though he has experience with pure drop back situations, nothing is natural for him at this point. It is going to be a repetitive process to get him to the point that the stuff he needs to do is second nature for him. When you look at him in the running game, the stuff that he did when he was the main rushing threat for the team will not translate to the NFL. You can pretty much ignore that aspect of his game, and hope that at some point that his athleticism will only be used as needed such as extending the play and making plays with his feet when ALL of his passing options aren't there. The 4,000 yards rushing he had during his career at Nevada? It will not translate. If you look at the top 10 rushers from the quarterback position in NCAA history, none of them became starting quarterbacks in the NFL. It is a skill that simply doesn't translate.

    The other characteristics that Colin has going for him is his intangibles. This guy has top notch work ethic. You aren't going to find many quarterbacks who will outwork him in this draft. He is a lot like Tim Tebow in that regard. Colin is also very smart. He has the ability to learn, assimilate, and process information quickly. Based on things I have heard from him with his talks with NFL teams, he's not a guy that has to be told things multiple times before he learns them. The guy made a 37 on his wonderlic, and studies show that 25 and above is the mark quarterbacks should aim for. Those studies don't show every quarterback making that mark being a success, but the studies do show that there is a high failure rate for those that score 24 or below on it. Some disagree, but the wonderlic is a good test to measure how quickly someone can process information. He's also very experienced. He has essentially been a 4 year starter with something like 44 career starts. He has won something like 33 of those starts, so he has shown that he can sustain success and not do things that hurt his team. He has graduated, so it shows that he will achieve goals that he has set for himself. Another thing about him is that he isn't a media hoard. This guy doesn't crave media attention the way Cam Newton does. He doesn't pander to the cameras and isn't coached on everything to say the way Cam Newton has. He's much more honest and forthcoming than Cam Newton ever thought about being.

    I'm using Cam Newton's name a lot in this post, but the reason is this. Perspective. If Miami considers Colin Kaepernick at 15, the fact that Cam Newton may go 1st overall makes Colin Kaepernick at 15 much less of a stretch. Colin Kaepernick is a flat out better quarterback prospect than Cam Newton is.
     
  7. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Need is dictated by the rest of your team.
     
  8. BuckeyeKing

    BuckeyeKing Wolves DYNASTY!!!!

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    Flacco played for Delaware. He seems to be doing alright. Matt Lienart and JaMarcus Russell were both high profiled QB's at big schools and bombed in the NFL. Phillip Rivers is doing pretty good for playing for North Carolina State.

    Not saying Kaepernick is going to be a big time QB just saying don't knock players for playing at a small school they'll surprise you.
     
  9. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    People continue to bash him, undervalue him, disrespect him with inferior prospects, and put poor projections out there on where he would be drafted, and its not just this site, there is a real large discrepency in value when it comes to this player..obviously very frustrating, and somewhat lonely the past 3 4 months considering my and a few others excitement for the player..

    Were all on the record for all these prospects, I feel good about mine and the work I have put into them, especially Ckap..Ive written thousands of words on the kid, there is a thread on the first page of this forum about his stock, has a lot of good info in it...I know a few others {Hurricane, Raf} share my thoughts on him..

    ''Hes got arm talent, and arm athleticism, he can throw from different variations...when I watch all his reps on screens,bubbles and seam routes, his ball is usually in nice position for the receiver, you can see his aim more clearly than others, puts it with the right amount of lead and velocity on the short stuff, he can take some off the ball when necessary so that the ball is catchable and he's not one way with his motion and trajectory like Henne..basically, with all that hes got going for him when it comes to raw talent and elite athleticism for a man his size, bottom line, hes accurate.

    Accuracy...I believe the Player has natural accuracy, has a very nice finish towards his target, the follow thru is so important when it comes to accuracy, and his, combined with his outstanding athleticism relative to his size and position, is why iam truly excited about the player, this is not a run first mentality type kid were talking about here, he loves to throw the football, and is not shy on any throw, and, when he does decide to run, he's outstanding, graceful, aggressive, The dude attacks the los better than any QB in this draft, including Newton.

    Reading defenses?...Its hard to tell because of the offense, just as hard as it is for most of the guys in this draft, but I'll tell ya this, there are instincts there that I trust when he plays the game, a feel for the position, an awareness of whats developing, he just does'nt make a lot of mistakes in coverage, and has the feet to buy himself time to reset and deliver.. did not come close to double digit int's all four years.

    In a draft where all the QB's are developmental to some degree, I believe with the overall skillset that he brings to the table, with elite upside staring you in the face, above and below the neck, hes the QB that I want most, and we don't have to trade up to get him..
     
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  10. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    ive been reading your analysis on players for 6 7 years, I may be wrong, but I do think that is the highest of praise that you have bestowed upon a QB with this type of skillset.?,Obviously I disagree with where you slot him though..
     
  11. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    I hear what you're saying Buckeye, I really do, but to "counter" your examples...

    Flacco did/does well in Baltimore because of that amazing defense they have. He doesn't have to win games, just manage them and I'll give credit, he does that well.

    I always have felt that USC was overrated and Matt Leinart proved that to me when he was drafted by the Cardinals. Overrated, underachieving, living on his celebrity from USC doesn't translate into an NFL caliber QB. The papparazzi and the tabloids were frequently reporting stories of Leinart out partying instead of in the film room, studying film and studying his playbook.

    JaMarcuss Russell from LSU was indeed a shock to me. I felt being the QB of a National Championship team from the SEC would have instantly translated into success in the NFL, but (and I shudder as I write this) in his defense, look at what team he went to...the Raiders, perennial underachievers with an old washed out owner still trying to hold the reins of the team...not realizing he's not on a wagon being pulled by a Mustang, but in a Mustang GT itself and knowing how to use it.

    NC State, the ACC...my opinion, the next big powerhouse in the NCAA, having to play teams such as Miami, FSU, GS Tech, BC and VA Tech. Phillip Rivers definitely played against high caliber teams and in the process shattered the ACC record books, so he was definitely battle tested.

    But Kaepernick, from Nevada? The WAC? I mean c'mon, who do they play? NMSU...the Aggies?? San Jose State? UTEP? I'm sorry, he may be a good player with good numbers, but if your numbers are based on a lack of competition, it's easy to compile those numbers.

    I don't know Buckeye, I just don't see Kaepernick flourishing into a high caliber NFL player. That's just my opinion, but I always leave the door open that I could be wrong.
     
  12. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I do not see how one can feel CKap could develop into a good NFL QB, but that Locker is a lost cause from Jump St. I guess I'm one of the few here who won't slit my wrists or throw my TV out the window if we took Locker at 15.
     
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  13. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    Again they mention every possibility for Miami except for Christian Ponder.
     
  14. PHINANALYST

    PHINANALYST Well-Known Member

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    The WildPat and CKap are not similar at all .... outside of the basic mobility.

    that being said - while myself and DJ have been huge CKap supporters ... i just could not pick him in RD1 -- or any QB for that matter.

    I'm sticking with Alton Smith as my pick @ 15 if'n we stay there - and he is still on the board. Otherwise, it's Pouncey.

    If Smith is gone and we can trade down ... a handful of other guys come into the picture ... but NO QB, WR or RB ... UNLESS we fall back to RD 2 .... then RB, WR become possibilities.
     
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  15. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    I'm with you on Locker. I won't hate it, but he wouldn't be my first choice.

    I'd hate the Kaepernick selection though.
     
  16. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    So the fact that the Patriots have already filled their biggest need (QB) means it isn’t? Okay...
     
  17. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I have heard CKap is the #1 QB on at least 5 different team boards. Now these are rumors so I'm not sure how true they are, but it does lend credibility to the notion that CKap may be higher rated by NFL teams than the many who show up here and say "No way".

    Personally, I'm in the 'anybody but Mallett' camp, which seems to have about three people in it, LOL. CKap and Ponder are the next two QBs I could be happy with in the first. I think they would be reaches at #15, but I see at least potential franchise QBs in them. However, I would never cease being a Dolphin fan over a pick. I'll remain a fan longer than any pick or any regime will be around.
     
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  18. DolfanJake

    DolfanJake Banned

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    Ben Roethlesberger went to Miami of Ohio. Jason Taylor to Akron. Didn't Phil Simms go to a Div. III school ? That is not the be all and end all arbiter in these things.
     
  19. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Jerry Rice went to a division II and Walter Payton did as well. They turned out decent.
     
  20. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Simms went to Morehead St. Who even knows without looking it up, where that is? :)
     
  21. DrAstroZoom

    DrAstroZoom Canary in a Coal Mine Luxury Box

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    Kentucky. I almost went there.
     
  22. Two Tacos

    Two Tacos Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The bigger schools he played in 2010, (this is a FYI not an argument):

    Colorado st.
    Cal (#24 at the time played)
    BYU
    Boise St. (#3 at the time played)
    Boston C

    Not that the size of the school really matters. There are more than enough players from smaller to mid sized schools in the NFL.
     
  23. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The whole ''Iam gonna quit if we pick so and so''....''Is so hot right now''.....Ive now heard 3 of our most respected members say that...really bothers me, but whatever, you cant tell somebody how to feel..

    Ckap has been invited to New york...I would think that when someone is invited its because the NFL has confirmation that he will be selected in the round by somebody no?

    When it comes to Mallett...I see a Dropback QB that has first round talent, no question, the guy towers in the drop and can see the whole field, and fires passes all over the place .... Now Folks here claim that the bad rep is not deserved, {which I totally disagree with} if thats true, then the player should not drop..
     
  24. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I don't think that means he is a lock for the 1st. Randall Cobb is an invite and nobody mentions him as a 1st rounder, that I've heard. Mark Herzlich is going too, and I doubt he goes in the first 3 rounds. It is more for the human interest aspect he was an invite IMO.
     
  25. Speedy

    Speedy Dolfan forever! :-)

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    I'd be more than happy with the pick. Read DJ's posts and that one by KB and you'll see why! Also, a small school doesn't matter. It's about the player and not which school he attended.

    I don't want to insult anybody, but what type of fan are you, when you stop supporting a team because you were unhappy with one draft pick?

    The run at QBs at the end of the first round could happen, so if the Fins want CKap (which I hope they do!), they should take him at #15. If not, I have a feeling the Jaguars take him at 16.
    And it's right, Newton at #1 is a much bigger reach than Colin at 15.

    That's my opinion. :up:
     
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  26. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Usually being invited to NY means that, but this year it may be different. Part of the reason could be to throw it in the face of the union who was trying to discourage prospects from attending until the public backlash. I've also heard it is intended to create drama. My understanding is that there are 27 players attending. Herlich is there and I don't think he has any chance of going in the first.

    As for the quit being a fan thing, it sounds like a tantrum to me. Emotions run high at this time and the media blitz is so long that people become "certain" they are right. I'm as arrogant in my beliefs as anybody, but I've be doing this long enough that I know that nobody is right all the time. IMO Mallett is a horrible bet b/c there are legit questions about his athleticism and character. If either of those is even half true, then he's never going to be a franchise QB and probably is an outright bust. That being said, he could defy the odds. If that happens I would be happy for him and the Dolphins. And it wouldn't change my opinion that he's a bad bet. It would just mean he defied the odds.
     
  27. DOLFANMIKE

    DOLFANMIKE FOOTBALL COACH 32 YEARS Luxury Box

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    Kaepernick is a decent player and I have no problem drafting him... in round 2. If we reach for him at 15 and he isn't an immediate upgrade I'm ready for our new GM and Staff. To make that kind of reach needs to have high rewards and consequences if they are right or wrong.

    We should be doing everything we can to trade back IMO.
     
  28. BuckeyeKing

    BuckeyeKing Wolves DYNASTY!!!!

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    Your right Kaepernick may not do anything but I wouldn't knock him for playing at a small school. I would gauge how well his mechanics, delivery, accuracy is.
     

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