Coach Zorn and religion in the locker room.

"Aqua4Ever04 wrote:

Funny timing on this. I had a thought today about a tattoo I'm considering getting.

It's my favorite band's logo (the one in my avatar) with a lyric over the top of it. Now the lyric has multiple different meanings, but I'll tell you what it means to me.

The lyric is: "GOD IS NOT AT HOME."

I don't believe in god, but it's not supposed to be an anti-religion tattoo. For me, it means that I don't need the power of a higher being to rely upon, to make me do right in my life, or to lean up for help. It's only me in this life and everything that happens to me or that I do for myself is my own accountability and my own doing. It's a reminder to me that there's rhyme or reason for anything and that life just kind of happens.

But everyone I've told about this tattoo tells me not to get it because of how other's would view it. Why are they allowed to display their love for their beliefs but I can't express mine on MY OWN body?

This stuff drives me absolutely crazy.

If you want the tattoo get it. You may want to put it somewhere that can easily be covered for work though. Some future employers may discriminate against you because it.

Back on the subject of football, because I believe football is grounded in emotion ... a good coach would make available various ways to practice the players faith. Its part of getting to know each and every player. While Im not a Christian I still find peace listening to a sermon where I can identify with the lesson. I was moved to tears when the Pope visited, because I was awestruck by the sheer gentleness of this man. He spoke from a heart that anyone could listen to. It inspired me...so I would imagine faith in the locker room would inspire many players of various faiths.

"vt_dolfan wrote:

....... I do wonder why, and this may seem ridiculous, but why is believing in the Super Natural or UFOs looked down upon by many when the reality is, we have more evidence of some kind that they exist, then we have of a higher power such as God.

Intolerance and absolutism are opposite sides of the same coin. I am a skeptic regarding both the Super Natural and UFO's but frankly, I have seen too much that is difficult to explain and thus I am reluctant to blow off anyone else. I may argue against a particular idea or proposition but hey, I could be wrong.

"vt_dolfan wrote:

Back on the subject of football, because I believe football is grounded in emotion ... a good coach would make available various ways to practice the players faith. Its part of getting to know each and every player. While Im not a Christian I still find peace listening to a sermon where I can identify with the lesson. I was moved to tears when the Pope visited, because I was awestruck by the sheer gentleness of this man. He spoke from a heart that anyone could listen to. It inspired me...so I would imagine faith in the locker room would inspire many players of various faiths.

In the new weekly chatter thread FFG makes a great point about Coach Campbell working hard to relate to all his team and each member of his team at the same time. I think she is on to something. Your point fits in, imo. A coach could/should work with each player to find ways to maximize their performance on the field and their growth off the field (which ought to contribute to the former)

The irony of this is that Zorn's tactics - in the name of Christianity - are contrary to the essence of how Christianity is supposed to operate - through weakness, gentleness, humility and free choice - not through power tactics which were Zorn's. In essence, Zorn is acting there counter to the very views his propagating. A complete failure.

"MrClean wrote:

"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness, that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind; and, for my part, I sincerely detest it, as I detest everything that is cruel." - Thomas Paine, Age of Reason

It's unfortunate that Paine took the information within those ancient texts out of their historical and cultural contexts in a way that would make anyone here - including yourself - incensed if someone did the same with words on here. Just sayin'. :)

This just in, Jim Zorn was a bad football coach.

"Da 'Fins wrote:

The irony of this is that Zorn's tactics - in the name of Christianity - are contrary to the essence of how Christianity is supposed to operate - through weakness, gentleness, humility and free choice - not through power tactics which were Zorn's. In essence, Zorn is acting there counter to the very views his propagating. A complete failure.

Well said.

In addition, if you're using your religion to divide, you might not want to bring it to your job where your success depends on bringing a group of people together.

"vt_dolfan wrote:

I can appreciate that explanation OP. Faith, or rather true faith is among the strongest things humans can have. For example Stonewall Jackson had such a profound faith in God , he had no fear when he went into battle, hence his nickname. He believed so fully that the Lord would take him when he so chose, therefor if it was not his time, he had nothing to fear of being killed in battle.

While I myself am not quite certain of my beliefs, I can respect that degree of faith.

I do wonder why, and this may seem ridiculous, but why is believing in the Super Natural or UFOs looked down upon by many when the reality is, we have more evidence of some kind that they exist, then we have of a higher power such as God.

Jackson did not get the nickname because of his religious beliefs. He got at the First Bull Run. As the Confederate lines began to crumble under heavy Union assault, Jackson's brigade provided crucial reinforcements on Henry House Hill, demonstrating the discipline he instilled in his men. Brig. Gen. Barnard Elliott Bee, Jr. exhorted his own troops to re-form by shouting, "There is Jackson standing like a stone wall. Let us determine to die here, and we will conquer. Rally behind the Virginians!"

Jackson was the best general and strategist the South had. Lee knew it too. After Jackson's death, Lee never won another major battle.

I see more reason, a lot more reason, to believe in the supernatural and/or UFOs/aliens than I do in a sky daddy.

"Da 'Fins wrote:

The irony of this is that Zorn's tactics - in the name of Christianity - are contrary to the essence of how Christianity is supposed to operate - through weakness, gentleness, humility and free choice - not through power tactics which were Zorn's. In essence, Zorn is acting there counter to the very views his propagating. A complete failure.

So many so called Christians IMO are guilty of this. They pervert the entire faith and help drive people away. There appear to me to be two different kinds of Jesus. You have the biblical Jesus as described in the four gospels, then you have Republican Jesus, formed from a distorted view of what Christ stood for, and used to further their own aims and preconceived prejudices.

"Da 'Fins wrote:

It's unfortunate that Paine took the information within those ancient texts out of their historical and cultural contexts in a way that would make anyone here - including yourself - incensed if someone did the same with words on here. Just sayin'. :)

Paine worded things more strongly, but Jefferson held many of the same beliefs himself. Also John Adams and Madison.

"MrClean wrote:

Religion poisons everything. If someone wants to believe in a higher power, then have at it, but it does not require adhering to some ancient bronze age texts written by people so ignorant they didn't even know where the sun went at night.

"MrClean wrote:

So many so called Christians IMO are guilty of this. They pervert the entire faith and help drive people away. There appear to me to be two different kinds of Jesus. You have the biblical Jesus as described in the four gospels, then you have Republican Jesus, formed from a distorted view of what Christ stood for, and used to further their own aims and preconceived prejudices.

Obviously, you understand that people pervert EVERY faith and religion. That's why I don't understand why you came into this thread kicking down the door and blasting a faith in total, instead of the specific chuckleheads like Zorn.

The Christian faith has objectionable parts in it, but mostly those aren't what is preached. I think most people of that faith know those parts are objectionable and tend to ignore them. The problem comes in when specific people pervert that religion to suit their own agendas whether those be monetary/hate/fear/etc.

Ohio is a great guy. He goes out of his way to not offend people when talking about faith and the faithless. He's open to honest respectful dialogue. He's not alone. That's why I'm forever trying to get the other side to not choose the nuclear option by blasting these people's faith(s). I mean its one thing when in a respectful manner you bring up something like homosexuality being an abomination but then so is a woman wearing a man's shirt and how that doesn't make sense. But its another thing entirely to just start blasting the religion.

Part of your anger, my anger and many people of no faith's anger is the militant gusto with which we've been judged or had beliefs shoved down our throat by the religious. We're not gonna change that by being as equally militant in shoving our beliefs/opinions down their throat. When you have someone like Ohio who is willing to have the kind of discussion we all want, then why start it off rude or angry....how is that going to change their approach to us? Be more Martin Luther King and less Martin Luther.

That's why I always say go after the person whose behavior is horrible but respect the faith.

I know I'm late to the party (as always) but I am reminded of an old saying attributed to St. Francis of Assisi:

"Preach the Gospel at all times, use words only when necessary."

In other words, let the way you live your life lead others to God, not so much your words. People like Zorn do more to divide us then to highlight what we have in common.

IMO

I have always objected to those who claim exclusive, absolute moral superiority because they are members of one church group or another.
They do a hard sell of the idea that I can be morally superior, too, if only I accept an indivisible package of dogmas, some of which I disagree with.
I just don't see how that constitutes morality, let alone superior morality.
By the same token, I have to admire their good works.
So the solution I have come up with is to support and give credit to the good works while ignoring the parts of the package I disagree with.
Cafeteria approach, I guess.

What Zorn is apparently doing doesn't seem very christian (not that I'm one either...just saying).

"PhinFan1968 wrote:

What Zorn is apparently doing doesn't seem very christian (not that I'm one either...just saying).

As a Christian, I would say you are correct. If what we read is accurate, then he is wrong both professionally and from the perspective of the faith he is trying to promote/live.

Religion doesn't "poison" everything, people do. Greedy, self serving people. It's hard to read some of this honestly.

"Fin D wrote:

Obviously, you understand that people pervert EVERY faith and religion. That's why I don't understand why you came into this thread kicking down the door and blasting a faith in total, instead of the specific chuckleheads like Zorn.

The Christian faith has objectionable parts in it, but mostly those aren't what is preached. I think most people of that faith know those parts are objectionable and tend to ignore them. The problem comes in when specific people pervert that religion to suit their own agendas whether those be monetary/hate/fear/etc.

Ohio is a great guy. He goes out of his way to not offend people when talking about faith and the faithless. He's open to honest respectful dialogue. He's not alone. That's why I'm forever trying to get the other side to not choose the nuclear option by blasting these people's faith(s). I mean its one thing when in a respectful manner you bring up something like homosexuality being an abomination but then so is a woman wearing a man's shirt and how that doesn't make sense. But its another thing entirely to just start blasting the religion.

Part of your anger, my anger and many people of no faith's anger is the militant gusto with which we've been judged or had beliefs shoved down our throat by the religious. We're not gonna change that by being as equally militant in shoving our beliefs/opinions down their throat. When you have someone like Ohio who is willing to have the kind of discussion we all want, then why start it off rude or angry....how is that going to change their approach to us? Be more Martin Luther King and less Martin Luther.

That's why I always say go after the person whose behavior is horrible but respect the faith.

If all Christians were the same as Ohiophinphan, and people like Jimmy Carter, the religion as a whole would be infinitely better, it would not drive people away, turn them sour toward it, etc. The bad apples, of which there are many, give the entire religion a black eye, IMO. That may not be fair, but I think it effects many people's attitudes toward it.

"MrClean wrote:

If all Christians were the same as Ohiophinphan, and people like Jimmy Carter, the religion as a whole would be infinitely better, it would not drive people away, turn them sour toward it, etc. The bad apples, of which there are many, give the entire religion a black eye, IMO. That may not be fair, but I think it effects many people's attitudes toward it.

Exactly, which is why it makes sense to blast those people and not Christianity, which was my point.

"MrClean wrote:

Jackson did not get the nickname because of his religious beliefs. He got at the First Bull Run. As the Confederate lines began to crumble under heavy Union assault, Jackson's brigade provided crucial reinforcements on Henry House Hill, demonstrating the discipline he instilled in his men. Brig. Gen. Barnard Elliott Bee, Jr. exhorted his own troops to re-form by shouting, "There is Jackson standing like a stone wall. Let us determine to die here, and we will conquer. Rally behind the Virginians!"

Jackson was the best general and strategist the South had. Lee knew it too. After Jackson's death, Lee never won another major battle.

I see more reason, a lot more reason, to believe in the supernatural and/or UFOs/aliens than I do in a sky daddy.

Exactly...there he stood like a Stone Wall..why do you think he was able to he so stoic in battle?

His profound belief in the Lord.

"My religious beliefs teach me to feel as safe in battle as in bed. God has fixed the time of my death. I do not concern myself with that, but to be always ready whenever it may overtake me. That is the way all men should live, and all men would be equally brave."

It is not the fault of religious people that some people pervert religion.

"vt_dolfan wrote:

Exactly...there he stood like a Stone Wall..why do you think he was able to he so stoic in battle?

His profound belief in the Lord.

"My religious beliefs teach me to feel as safe in battle as in bed. God has fixed the time of my death. I do not concern myself with that, but to be always ready whenever it may overtake me. That is the way all men should live, and all men would be equally brave."

When Gen, Bee uttered his famous quote, he was not thinking of Jackson's religion. At least there is no indication he was.

"MrClean wrote:

When Gen, Bee uttered his famous quote, he was not thinking of Jackson's religion. At least there is no indication he was.

Nooo....ok..get what you are saying now. The nickname was because he showed such a lack of fear while in battle...he was as solid as a stonewall. You are correct. My point was it was his faith that gave him the strength to be that brave.

Question. Not a trick question. Just curious.
Do you mean that the General had such strong faith in the promise of eternal life that the possibility of the end of his life in this world was not as big a deal to him as it would have been to a person with less faith?

"cdz12250 wrote:

Question. Not a trick question. Just curious.
Do you mean that the General had such strong faith in the promise of eternal life that the possibility of the end of his life in this world was not as big a deal to him as it would have been to a person with less faith?

To me it means that he knows where genus going after he dies, so he has that confidence of eternity with God. I think he meant it to increase the faith in others not as a criticism.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk